[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by Prince ///M

For what concerns the trap speeds of a 400whp car I calculated that an E90 with the torque curve posted by Mr5 in his 91oct dyno would trap in the 118mph range independently from the launch and with quite conservative gear changes (0.4s).

Will you please explain how you came up with this?

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Clap135

yea terry also ran 11s with a jb+ and bolt ons. Shiv ran 123-124, warran ran over 120, terry ran over 120. A couple jb3 cars ran 118-119 with half the mods. I know, different cars, different tracks ect ect. However 115, we have seen close to that from tune only cars many times

If the car traps stock 105mph with 280hp, I would think 120 more hp (400hp), should put it in the 117mph trap range. My white 335i sedan trapped 117mph, full weight, with just JB3, DRs, Fuel.

[Prince ///M]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

Will you please explain how you came up with this?

F=m*a.
...and some simple additional equations derived from there.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by Prince ///M

F=m*a.
...and some simple additional equations derived from there.

But the trap is an average velocity between 2 points at the end of the track; not acceleration.
I'm very curious how you came up with an all around equation to calculate trap speeds based on the hp of a car.
Are you comparing other cars to come up with this or just a baseline e90?
If you are comparing then are the other cars that you are comparing have the interior taken out?

[Proper Motion LLC]

Just go to Sacramento and prove his 118 MPH theory correct

[Bluechipper]

Originally Posted by 09AlpineTTSedan

Just go to Sacramento and prove his 118 MPH theory correct

Honestly who cares.

Once GIAC has the handheld flash loader available, there will be plenty of GIAC flashed 335i's out there. I see a lot of people switching from the piggies in the future.

There will be many more times/traps to look at.

[Proper Motion LLC]

Originally Posted by Bluechipper

Honestly who cares.

Once GIAC has the handheld flash loader available, there will be plenty of GIAC flashed 335i's out there. I see a lot of people switching from the piggies in the future.

There will be many more times/traps to look at.

I was just making a point on how his theory is flawed

[LostMarine]

Originally Posted by Bluechipper

Honestly who cares.

Once GIAC has the handheld flash loader available, there will be plenty of GIAC flashed 335i's out there. I see a lot of people switching from the piggies in the future.

There will be many more times/traps to look at.

+1

[Prince ///M]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

But the trap is an average velocity between 2 points at the end of the track; not acceleration.
I'm very curious how you came up with an all around equation to calculate trap speeds based on the hp of a car.
Are you comparing other cars to come up with this or just a baseline e90?
If you are comparing then are the other cars that you are comparing have the interior taken out?

Craig, the speed is the acceleration integral so a simple math operation is involved in the process.

In fact, from the power (or torque) curve you have the measure of the force the vehicle is able to put on the ground.
By knowing drag (aerodynamics + rolling resistance) and car reduced mass (mass + rotational inertia of engine, transmission and wheels) it is possible to apply for each time step the Newtonian second law where 'F' is the difference between engine thrust and drag.

Some other equations are involved in order to calculate load shift during launch and clutch operation on gear change, but no major deviation from general concept.

The parameters I use for calculation are a mix between BMW claimed figures and experimental data acquired during road tests on my 135i and on the cars of some friends (e90/91/92 335i, e90 320d, e92 ///M, etc.).

Of course the estimation works both ways: from power curve to acceleration and vice versa, so we mainly use it as a 'street dyno test' with very good results.

If you want (as already suggested), you can send me one of your BT acquisitons in order to friendly compare it with the tons of numbers I already have from jb3, Procede, AA and Giac users.

A third gear acceleration (no incline nor DTC) from 1300 rpm to redline acquiring the following parameters is enough:
-Throttle
-Actual throttle valve angle
-Target boost
-Pressure in front of throttle valve
-IAT
-Speed
-Rpm
-Ignition angle cylinder 1

A repetition of the same test on second gear could also be very useful if you don't have major wheel spin.

Bye, Rino.

[jippii ensio]

Prince, can you post your calculations? Thanks!

[jippii ensio]

There seems to be a bit of politics involved in here. The MD automotive dyno is the most used dyno in e90post. Suddenly when a flash is dynoed there the dyno is "reading high". All the years Mr.5 as been dynoing there for the good of the community and this is the first time it is suddenly "reading high". Mr.5 is the most trusted person in the forum when it comes to the amount and accuracy of independent information.

All dynos read differently, but since MD Automotive dyno is the most used, that is almost "the official e90post dyno". No dyno or theoretical calculation is absolutely correct. What matters is that we can see a huge number of dynos from same dyno. Any other dyno or calculation does not have the benchmark base. So they are good only with base and after dynos and then they tell the effect of that one specific change in that one specific car and other mods. That is valuable of course, but I encourage people to use MD dyno when possible for having the large benchmark base.

[enrita]

These are 2 graphs i got from Prince ///M with GIAC stage 1 versus procede versus JB3 map 7 accelleration and JB3 power.
Prince ///M has not all bolt on and runs Stage 1 procede if i am not mistaken. The JB3 was full Stage 3 as mine with GIAC stage 1.
His calculations in power are spot on with the mustang/maha type dyno i normally use.

I also add his calculations on GIAC BETA pushing 14.5 psi and the dyno i did ... pretty spot on.

[enrita]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

There seems to be a bit of politics involved in here. The MD automotive dyno is the most used dyno in e90post. Suddenly when a flash is dynoed there the dyno is "reading high". All the years Mr.5 as been dynoing there for the good of the community and this is the first time it is suddenly "reading high". Mr.5 is the most trusted person in the forum when it comes to the amount and accuracy of independent information.

All dynos read differently, but since MD Automotive dyno is the most used, that is almost "the official e90post dyno". No dyno or theoretical calculation is absolutely correct. What matters is that we can see a huge number of dynos from same dyno. Any other dyno or calculation does not have the benchmark base. So they are good only with base and after dynos and then they tell the effect of that one specific change in that one specific car and other mods. That is valuable of course, but I encourage people to use MD dyno when possible for having the large benchmark base.

i agree with you and thats actually why GIAC has done the dynoes there so that they could provide a valid baseline from the dyno most used on e90post.

[Prince ///M]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

There seems to be a bit of politics involved in here. The MD automotive dyno is the most used dyno in e90post. Suddenly when a flash is dynoed there the dyno is "reading high". All the years Mr.5 as been dynoing there for the good of the community and this is the first time it is suddenly "reading high". Mr.5 is the most trusted person in the forum when it comes to the amount and accuracy of independent information.

No politics at all from my side, it is only a matter of masurement units.

If in Europe someone would ever say that with a map and bolt the N54 is producing 400whp on 91, the only possible reaction would be that: ... as demonstated by the dyno run of Enrita's car.

No problem at all if your reference dyno is reading 13% higher respect to ours, but IMHO it is worth to know... otherwise one could think that Enrita is missing 50whp with similar mods and 3octane points more.

[bmwzimmer]

Originally Posted by enrita

i agree with you and thats actually why GIAC has done the dynoes there so that they could provide a valid baseline from the dyno most used on e90post.

Dyno's go out of Calibration. Regardless of where so as long as MD has recent calibration records, it's legit.

2 years ago, I Dynoed a Procede V2 Stage 1 there with DCI. It read 330hp/340tq. Did a stock run immediate afterwords (used bypass plugs) and hit 280hp/290tq. I think at the time, Mr5 was experimenting with V2 and JB2 and was hitting 350-360hp.

I think the Dyno is Consistent and is widely used by Edmunds.

I don't know if it's been mentioned but Shiv brought up this point.

"Flashes have had access to CAN boost target. Where they didn't do so well was their ability to have the boost control system adjust it's DC mapping in order to hit the target without any over/undershoot. Which is why you see throttle oscillation on flashed cars. Especially when running a map that is mismatched to your mods"

Mr5 really should test out a REVII with Throttle Delay Fix and see what his traps are. Should go from 116 to 121 and be right there with the 6AT's.....

[enrita]

remember that Mr.5 was running a pump gas Stage 2 flash on 100 octane.. When the race/meth map is out from GIAC he will be able to take fully advantage on the high octane fuel.
and dont believe everything Shiv is saying, his only agenda is selling the Procede and discredit the competition.

[NRG]

It's not the numbers only. GIAC flash drives/feels unlike major piggy's out there, even though the piggy may very well be a little more powerful.

[Proper Motion LLC]

On the same day and same track Mr. 5s 335i was running 2 mph slower than a C63 with over 470RWHP. Seems reasonable to me for a 6MT 335i making 400RWHP.

An 6AT 335i is geared better for the quarter mile than a 6MT.

The 6AT has shorter gearing 1 thru 4th-

In 4th gear the 6AT sees 104MPH at 5500RPM, 113MPH at 6000RPM, 118MPH at 6300RPM and 123 at 6500RPM.


In 4th gear the 6MT sees 117MPH at 5500RPM, 127 at 6000RPM


So a 6AT with the same power could have trapped a couple MPH better.

[Bluechipper]

Originally Posted by bmwzimmer

I don't know if it's been mentioned but Shiv brought up this point.

"Flashes have had access to CAN boost target. Where they didn't do so well was their ability to have the boost control system adjust it's DC mapping in order to hit the target without any over/undershoot. Which is why you see throttle oscillation on flashed cars. Especially when running a map that is mismatched to your mods"

Mr5 really should test out a REVII with Throttle Delay Fix and see what his traps are. Should go from 116 to 121 and be right there with the 6AT's.....

No point. Flashes are here to stay. Also they will only get better. I trust a flash over a piggy anyday.

Originally Posted by NRG

It's not the numbers only. GIAC flash drives/feels unlike major piggy's out there, even though the piggy may very well be a little more powerful.

+1