[kosseg]

Originally Posted by iheartsole

by passing this 700 billion bail out plan it will just let wallstreet & big corporations/banks let them know they can get away with anything. NO it will not Help us the American people, but help those companies that are in debt. why would any of you agree for Bush or whoever to pass this plan. Our Economy has to work/pull together fo fix the problem if anything. Not print more $ and make our US dollars weaker. Yes, this is a big crisis right now and we are in a recession that will prob take some time to fix.

The bill is essentially there to reinstill confidence in the credit markets by setting a floor and stimulating banks to continue to lend. If credit freezes, say goodbye to growth. Many small businesses will no longer be able to tap their lines of credit at their respective banks, and they will no longer be able to access credit at any favourable terms. This will trickle down to the individual american whose boss can no longer meet payroll because they don't have access to the bank credit that they usually use to pay their employees.

Wall Street effed up big timed, but it wasn't just the big commercial/investment banks that are at fault; it's a whole slew of groups ranging from the bond rating agencies, to the mortgage brokers, to the individuals themselves who spread themselves way too thin trying to "keep up with the Joneses" (completely cliche term obv.).

With the proper left of centre amendments (including reduced CEO compensation, equity stake, etc.) this plan is a hell of a lot better for Main street than most people have been led to believe.

This is a good read:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/9787...not-completely

[Kbueno]

Reactions from the candidates:

Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois, the Democratic nominee for president, said the “inaction in Congress” illustrated why “the American people are disgusted with Washington.”

“Now is the time for Democrats and Republicans to join together and act in a way that prevents an economic catastrophe,” Obama said in a statement.

The campaign of the Republican nominee, Sen. John McCain of Arizona, used the occasion as an opportunity to blame Obama for the failure of the measure. “Barack Obama failed to lead, phoned it in, attacked John McCain, and refused to even say if he supported the final bill,” McCain’s senior policy adviser, Doug Holtz-Eakin, said in a statement. “This bill failed because Barack Obama and the Democrats put politics ahead of country.”

[bmrm396]

we need a bail out plan, but sure as hell shouldnt be what they just tried to pass (thankfully rejected) on Mon - thank god i bailed outta the market last month ... yes i have futuristic vision

[kosseg]

Originally Posted by 335lvr

Reactions from the candidates:

Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois, the Democratic nominee for president, said the “inaction in Congress” illustrated why “the American people are disgusted with Washington.”

“Now is the time for Democrats and Republicans to join together and act in a way that prevents an economic catastrophe,” Obama said in a statement.

The campaign of the Republican nominee, Sen. John McCain of Arizona, used the occasion as an opportunity to blame Obama for the failure of the measure. “Barack Obama failed to lead, phoned it in, attacked John McCain, and refused to even say if he supported the final bill,” McCain’s senior policy adviser, Doug Holtz-Eakin, said in a statement. “This bill failed because Barack Obama and the Democrats put politics ahead of country.”

It was the repubs. that only mustered 33% of the representative's votes. Democrats were 65%+ in favour. Obama needs to take this opportunity by the balls, as another probably won't pop up before the election. It'd be better for him if another institution fails in the next week.

[BMW335icDDS]

I hate bailing out those idiots on wall street, but unfortunately this is probably needed to ensure our economy doesn't crumble. I just never respected those people on wall street as I always thought they were highly overpaid for their education level. I'm just glad many of them have lost their jobs as their greed has destroyed the economy for the nation and especially the middle class.

[magmd]

I think it should be passed if we truly want to keep things from collapsing....if they will at all.

However, I also think ALOT of americans forgot the value of the dollar. People working minimum wage buying $150 jeans, wearing designer sunglasses, with tons of gadgets, ipods, iphones, PSP etc. Even here you can find threads about people asking if they should take out student loans to buy cars or do mods!! Maybe we do need to economy to suffer to not only force wall street from being so careless in the future, but to also make the average american re-evalute their priorities. Too many people living way beyond their means...purely on freaking credit.

Maybe we do need to have some form of collapse in order to check EVERYONE back into their place.

[aut0sh0cker]

Originally Posted by BMW335icDDS

I hate bailing out those idiots on wall street, but unfortunately this is probably needed to ensure our economy doesn't crumble. I just never respected those people on wall street as I always thought they were highly overpaid for their education level. I'm just glad many of them have lost their jobs as their greed has destroyed the economy for the nation and especially the middle class.

WTF is wrong with you!? A lot of those who lost their jobs (like a couple of my buddies) just got screwed for the faults of their superiors. Two of my friends worked their asses off as low level interns for Goldman Sachs.

These guys have no real control over the decisions they make day to day. They pretty much have to do as they're told or get tossed out. They typically worked 80 hour work weeks because they thought they would have a future in the company, but NO. All that work, all that bullshit, and for what? NOTHING... now they are unemployed and looking for work in a field that is looking to go nowhere in the next couple of years.

On the other hand, the ones who are keeping their jobs are the real decision makers of the industry and are firmly set in many of these firms. And now they are the ones we look to to solve the nation wide problem that they created...

Scott

[MTV]

Originally Posted by aut0sh0cker

WTF is wrong with you!? A lot of those who lost their jobs (like a couple of my buddies) just got screwed for the faults of their superiors. Two of my friends worked their asses off as low level interns for Goldman Sachs.

These guys have no real control over the decisions they make day to day. They pretty much have to do as they're told or get tossed out. They typically worked 80 hour work weeks because they thought they would have a future in the company, but NO. All that work, all that bullshit, and for what? NOTHING... now they are unemployed and looking for work in a field that is looking to go nowhere in the next couple of years.

On the other hand, the ones who are keeping their jobs are the real decision makers of the industry and are firmly set in many of these firms. And now they are the ones we look to to solve the nation wide problem that they created...

Scott

Too bad for the ones who lost their jobs. Fucking sucks man.

[John 070]

Seems like we're back to the days when we can lose on paper our annual net salary in a month. It's not a great feeling, but I suppose some of us have 45 years left to work so maybe it will work out in the end. C'mon now, who likes the Dow being down 777? Guess we should just get a M3 at 0.9%, what the hey.....it s*****. We need to do whatever can prop the economy back up.

[Jammin Jason]

the bailout bill did not pass.

[JIM E92]

Originally Posted by frahuang

If they offer me 4% 30 year mortgage, that's all I ask. I don't need 700 billion dollar bail out plan...

You are in no place to ask for a hand out...of any kind. If you need a re-adjustment to a low fixed rate mortgage to afford the payments on the bank's house you should first sell your BMW before asking for a hand out. It's BECAUSE of people like you that we are in the mess we are in today. I strongly believe in personal responsibility. If you made assumptions that the house you are occupying was going to appreciate at an unsustainable rate of 10% annually, and your adjustable rate loan was not going to reset to a higher rate even though the paper YOU signed said it would--that should be no one's problem but yours. Unfortunately the masses are asses. Millions of people did just what you did, or worse, by intentionally lying about their income. That's WHY we are where we are today. As a prudent American who was not a participant in the greatest housing bubble I'm truly sickened to know my financial future is uncertain due to people like you. I don't want to pay taxes to buy up your toxic mortgage, but as a one who loves their country I believe there is a time for the federal government to step in and take immediate action to save us from repeating history. How dare you ask for anything! Are you even a citizen of the United States? I ask because you are displaying the Taiwanese flag in your signature.

[Ph0zenstone]

Originally Posted by JIM E92

You are in no place to ask for a hand out...of any kind. If you need a re-adjustment to a low fixed rate mortgage to afford the payments on the bank's house you should first sell your BMW before asking for a hand out. It's BECAUSE of people like you that we are in the mess we are in today. I strongly believe in personal responsibility. If you made assumptions that the house you are occupying was going to appreciate at an unsustainable rate of 10% annually, and your adjustable rate loan was not going to reset to a higher rate even though the paper YOU signed said it would--that should be no one's problem but yours. Unfortunately the masses are asses. Millions of people did just what you did, or worse, by intentionally lying about their income. That's WHY we are where we are today. As a prudent American who was not a participant in the greatest housing bubble I'm truly sickened to know my financial future is uncertain due to people like you. I don't want to pay taxes to buy up your toxic mortgage, but as a one who loves their country I believe there is a time for the federal government to step in and take immediate action to save us from repeating history. How dare you ask for anything! Are you even a citizen of the United States? I ask because you are displaying the Taiwanese flag in your signature.

hate to agree, but well said. fortunately i'm in auditing which is one of the last jobs to be cut but we already started seeing layoffs due to loss of existing cliengs and even potential clients. i really think the gov't needs to step in this time and take charge...they cannot simply let the market correct itself because it could take years and our generation simply cannot sustain another year or two of this mess.

They say they dont want to pass it because its a choice of either bankrupting our children or bankrupting the firms on wall street. Unfortunately, if they choose to bankrupt the firms then they are in fact bankrupting the current generation...so whats the difference? at least the earlier they fix the problem the earlier they see results...so i vote yes to the bailout plan.

[tek818]

I'm glad it failed! If it's something the Bush regime wants, it can't be good for the country!

[frahuang]

Originally Posted by JIM E92

You are in no place to ask for a hand out...of any kind. If you need a re-adjustment to a low fixed rate mortgage to afford the payments on the bank's house you should first sell your BMW before asking for a hand out. It's BECAUSE of people like you that we are in the mess we are in today. I strongly believe in personal responsibility. If you made assumptions that the house you are occupying was going to appreciate at an unsustainable rate of 10% annually, and your adjustable rate loan was not going to reset to a higher rate even though the paper YOU signed said it would--that should be no one's problem but yours. Unfortunately the masses are asses. Millions of people did just what you did, or worse, by intentionally lying about their income. That's WHY we are where we are today. As a prudent American who was not a participant in the greatest housing bubble I'm truly sickened to know my financial future is uncertain due to people like you. I don't want to pay taxes to buy up your toxic mortgage, but as a one who loves their country I believe there is a time for the federal government to step in and take immediate action to save us from repeating history. How dare you ask for anything! Are you even a citizen of the United States? I ask because you are displaying the Taiwanese flag in your signature.

Buddy,

You made alot of assumptions. Most homeowners will like their rate to be lowered, doesn't mean everyone has adjustable rate. If you save the existing homeowners, then they don't have to sell or foreclose. They will make their mortage payment on schedule, banks will not have to shutdown. House market will at least hold steady with no big increase in inventory.

On the other hand, I don't see the proposed 700 billion bail out plan helping the regular folks. That's where I was coming from. I hope you understand now.

[!Xoible]

im glad it didnt pass. that'd fuck up this country completely. i hope politicians have more brains than that. which apparently they do!

[TurboFan]

Pass the plan, wipe out the equity of the decision makers, and regulate the shit out of them.

[TurboFan]

Originally Posted by frahuang

Buddy,

You made alot of assumptions. Most homeowners will like their rate to be lowered, doesn't mean everyone has adjustable rate. If you save the existing homeowners, then they don't have to sell or foreclose. They will make their mortage payment on schedule, banks will not have to shutdown. House market will at least hold steady with no big increase in inventory.

On the other hand, I don't see the proposed 700 billion bail out plan helping the regular folks. That's where I was coming from. I hope you understand now.

Just wait and see what happens to regular folks when there is no liquidity (aka grease) left in the financial markets. It grinds to a halt.

[frahuang]

Originally Posted by TurboFan

Just wait and see what happens to regular folks when there is no liquidity (aka grease) left in the financial markets. It grinds to a halt.

I'm sure there will always be someone ready to take my mortgage payment first day each month.

[kevinbahnz]

fuck it call their bluff and see what happens. the world we're living in sucks anyways. I'm losing my job in december . lets go back to the stone age. and start all over. every man for himself. its coming.

[Kbueno]

Originally Posted by kevinbahnz

fuck it call their bluff and see what happens. the world we're living in sucks anyways. I'm losing my job in december . lets go back to the stone age. and start all over. every man for himself. its coming.

haha...let's hope not. Those of us with children will do anything to ensure that doesn't happen. I'm not keen on passing a load of troubles to the next generation. We need to fix this non-sense now.

[ejazbmw]

Originally Posted by magmd

I think it should be passed if we truly want to keep things from collapsing....if they will at all.

However, I also think ALOT of americans forgot the value of the dollar. People working minimum wage buying $150 jeans, wearing designer sunglasses, with tons of gadgets, ipods, iphones, PSP etc. Even here you can find threads about people asking if they should take out student loans to buy cars or do mods!! Maybe we do need to economy to suffer to not only force wall street from being so careless in the future, but to also make the average american re-evalute their priorities. Too many people living way beyond their means...purely on freaking credit.

Maybe we do need to have some form of collapse in order to check EVERYONE back into their place.

+1

man you took the words right out of my mouth we need to let wall-street know were not always going to help them when the fuck up, everyone is taking these big ass loans knowing clearly they can't afford them!!! what the fuck is wrong with people this topic gets me so pissed because it just shows other countrys how stupid americans can be. I say let those retarts who fucked up fall so they learn a lesson..

[kosseg]

Personally, I believe they are "bailing" out the people that defeated this bill, not the wealthy. The wealthy have pulled an Atlas Shrugged of sorts. They are on the sidelines and refusing to move into anything other than treasuries. They are refusing to put their money in the bank. They are refusing to buy munis. They are refusing to buy corporate debt and of course they are refusing to invest in the stock market.

Their capital is preserved. They will take their lumps, but they will have plenty of company because it is their money - its absence or presence - that dictates liquidity.

They have spoken and the man on the street demanding "no bail out for wall street" have spoken.

I'd bet all the tea in china on who cries uncle first.

Everyone is about to get a solid dose of how bad it is when huge pools of capital capitulate. We've haven't even seen the start of it unless the liquidity issues are addressed.

(Cross posted from another forum)