[luckyu]

I finally got the M3 subframe bushings and sway bars installed on my 328. So how does it feel? Well... I think my shocks may be wearing out.

I have suspension modifications similar to some others here: bmw performance shocks and springs (first generation), m3 tension struts and control arms, and now m3 subframe bushings and sway bars.

As the performance suspension has broken in, it's become underdamped. There is a lot of pitch, which is very uncomfortable, and there is a lot of float and compression on the freeway.

The new bushings help significantly with both float and pitch, but it's not eliminated, and I think part of the reason is the shocks just aren't correct for these springs. They're wearing out. Another reason could be that the suspension just isn't designed with the stiff shocks I like.

I wanted the m3 sway bars because Orb has evangelized them and from playing around with his spreadsheet, they do make the car neutral steer.

I feel like the bushings and bars were a good change, but I'm not able to enjoy them too much because the shocks (or something else) are not performing correctly. I'm currently looking at Koni FSD or Koni Sports. I think you can have Koni valve the Sports to a particular spring rate.

[cvc 22349a]

'I think you can have Koni valve the Sports to a particular spring rate.

That sounds like a great idea! If you do that, maybe see if you can get the Sport rears that can be adjusted w/o taking the out of the car

[tibra1]

For the best results you should consider proper coilover suspension...it will help take advantage of the m3 arms, sways and bushings..

The BMW suspension systems uses low spring rates..giving u that floaty feeling

[luckyu]

Originally Posted by tibra1

For the best results you should consider proper coilover suspension...it will help take advantage of the m3 arms, sways and bushings..

The BMW suspension systems uses low spring rates..giving u that floaty feeling

You know, I have an E36 with the stock non-sport suspension, and it's such a good suspension. It's smooth and firm. Firmer by far than the E90.

[neoduffer]

Originally Posted by luckyu

You know, I have an E36 with the stock non-sport suspension, and it's such a good suspension. It's smooth and firm. Firmer by far than the E90.

Fortunately RFTs weren't spec'd on the E36. The E9x soft suspension compensates for the beloved RFTs which BMW so wisely outfitted.

BTW, I like your choice for suspension mods. Hopefully you work something out.

[luckyu]

Originally Posted by cvc 22349a

'I think you can have Koni valve the Sports to a particular spring rate.

That sounds like a great idea! If you do that, maybe see if you can get the Sport rears that can be adjusted w/o taking the out of the car

Thanks cvc! I will look out for that.

[DaFish]

Originally Posted by luckyu

I finally got the M3 subframe bushings and sway bars installed on my 328. So how does it feel? Well... I think my shocks may be wearing out.

I have suspension modifications similar to some others here: bmw performance shocks and springs (first generation), m3 tension struts and control arms, and now m3 subframe bushings and sway bars.

As the performance suspension has broken in, it's become underdamped. There is a lot of pitch, which is very uncomfortable, and there is a lot of float and compression on the freeway.

The new bushings help significantly with both float and pitch, but it's not eliminated, and I think part of the reason is the shocks just aren't correct for these springs. They're wearing out. Another reason could be that the suspension just isn't designed with the stiff shocks I like.

I wanted the m3 sway bars because Orb has evangelized them and from playing around with his spreadsheet, they do make the car neutral steer.

I feel like the bushings and bars were a good change, but I'm not able to enjoy them too much because the shocks (or something else) are not performing correctly. I'm currently looking at Koni FSD or Koni Sports. I think you can have Koni valve the Sports to a particular spring rate.

Call Harold at HP Autowerks and match your suspension.... you are out of balance..... don't just do a few parts here and there it is too complicated and complex. Loose the RFTs and match your spring and shocks to what you want. Be careful. A stiff suspension is what you want in your head but my wife wouldn't get in the car it made her car sick. Figure out what you want and what is important and then get matching shocks/springs for that. You will have better handling now with the mods. Harold can help you with Swift springs/shocks to give you what you want - or Coil overs. Start with Harold.

[Thumperx]

I agree with DaFish statement regarding being out of balance and talking with Harold. It hard to pick and choose which component to place on the car and achieve the expected end goal.

I'm not experiencing what you are going through, and I too have all the key components (except M3 bushing and LSD). How many miles are on these struts? At this stage of your build, you should be somewhat smiling, I know I am.

One thing, I live down here on the SF peninsula where the roads are somewhat smoother than in the city. This could be your possible culprit. Koni Yellow or similar types are a good next choice.

[Orb]

Originally Posted by luckyu

I finally got the M3 subframe bushings and sway bars installed on my 328. So how does it feel? Well... I think my shocks may be wearing out.

I have suspension modifications similar to some others here: bmw performance shocks and springs (first generation), m3 tension struts and control arms, and now m3 subframe bushings and sway bars.

As the performance suspension has broken in, it's become underdamped. There is a lot of pitch, which is very uncomfortable, and there is a lot of float and compression on the freeway.

The new bushings help significantly with both float and pitch, but it's not eliminated, and I think part of the reason is the shocks just aren't correct for these springs. They're wearing out. Another reason could be that the suspension just isn't designed with the stiff shocks I like.

I wanted the m3 sway bars because Orb has evangelized them and from playing around with his spreadsheet, they do make the car neutral steer.

I feel like the bushings and bars were a good change, but I'm not able to enjoy them too much because the shocks (or something else) are not performing correctly. I'm currently looking at Koni FSD or Koni Sports. I think you can have Koni valve the Sports to a particular spring rate.

Add these rear toe arm and most of the remaining stability problem will be diminished. I wouldn't consider the other toe arms I have seen on the market as they are no near stiff enough. These have sealed bearings and made of steel which is lighter than alloy arm due to the space and size constraints. In short, these are 3x stiffer than a aluminum version.

http://www.meganracing.com/product.a...d=891&catid=54

[DaFish]

Originally Posted by Orb

Add these rear toe arm and most of the remaining stability problem will be diminished. I wouldn't consider the other toe arms I have seen on the market as they are no near stiff enough. These have sealed bearings and made of steel which is lighter than alloy arm due to the space and size constraints. In short, these are 2x stiffer than a aluminum version.

http://www.meganracing.com/product.a...d=891&catid=54

Orb, given my mods in my sig, what would these toe arms do real life to my handling. I am still noticing some slight movement even after the subframe and rear M3 control arms under accel/decel... is this due to the 335 toe arms?

Next question: what alignment settings do you suggest in the rear? and in the front for max handling - given my mods?

Thanks Orb - sorry for thread jack.... it may help you.

[cvc 22349a]

Originally Posted by Orb

Add these rear toe arm and most of the remaining stability problem will be diminished. I wouldn't consider the other toe arms I have seen on the market as they are no near stiff enough. These have sealed bearings and made of steel which is lighter than alloy arm due to the space and size constraints. In short, these are 2x stiffer than a aluminum version.

http://www.meganracing.com/product.a...d=891&catid=54

Thanks for that link Orb. Most of my rear end stability was improved with the M3 subframe bushings and guide rods, but as Harold suggested, the toe links are an important piece.

[cvc 22349a]

Originally Posted by luckyu

Thanks cvc! I will look out for that.

Can I take a ride in your car if you install the Koni sports?
Our bushings/arms are the same, and I'm looking for a spring/shock combo that doesn't beat me up but isn't as floaty as what I've got now.

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by Orb

Add these rear toe arm and most of the remaining stability problem will be diminished. I wouldn't consider the other toe arms I have seen on the market as they are no near stiff enough. These have sealed bearings and made of steel which is lighter than alloy arm due to the space and size constraints. In short, these are 2x stiffer than a aluminum version.

http://www.meganracing.com/product.a...d=891&catid=54

Interesting you recommend megan's toe arms..I have heard Megan Racing's stuff could be better..I was waiting on velocity motorsports toe arms..but they have been outta of stock for 5 months now!

So whats your take on the megan toe arms vs velocity motorsports...This is the last item i need for my suspension

[luckyu]

Originally Posted by cvc 22349a

Can I take a ride in your car if you install the Koni sports?
Our bushings/arms are the same, and I'm looking for a spring/shock combo that doesn't beat me up but isn't as floaty as what I've got now.

Sure. It may be a while though!

Also, I should correct something I said before about custom Koni sports. I've since learned that usually, what people do is get the off the shelf shock (Koni Yellow "for the e90", for example), and then use the rebound adjustment to tune for different springs. The compression rate is fixed.

Apparently the contribution that the spring makes to the total compression resistance is minor enough that a certain range of springs can be used and it's "good enough".

So, probably a custom shock is not necessary in my case.

[luckyu]

Originally Posted by DaFish

Call Harold at HP Autowerks and match your suspension.... you are out of balance..... don't just do a few parts here and there it is too complicated and complex. Loose the RFTs and match your spring and shocks to what you want. Be careful. A stiff suspension is what you want in your head but my wife wouldn't get in the car it made her car sick. Figure out what you want and what is important and then get matching shocks/springs for that. You will have better handling now with the mods. Harold can help you with Swift springs/shocks to give you what you want - or Coil overs. Start with Harold.

Lots of good advice, thanks! I see you have Dinan stage 3. That would probably be a bit stiff for me too. The best description of what I want would be "e36 on an e90". I want the flat feel of the e36 -- which is really not at all stiff! -- on the e90. What's important to me is the confidence and precision I feel when driving the e36. The stock e36 is not a barn buster of a car, but it is a clever car.

I didn't mean to give the impression that I would just throw some stiffer shocks on. If I bought Koni yellows, for example, it would be because I believed they match or can match the springs I have.

[luckyu]

Originally Posted by Orb

Add these rear toe arm and most of the remaining stability problem will be diminished. I wouldn't consider the other toe arms I have seen on the market as they are no near stiff enough. These have sealed bearings and made of steel which is lighter than alloy arm due to the space and size constraints. In short, these are 2x stiffer than a aluminum version.

http://www.meganracing.com/product.a...d=891&catid=54

The two things I've done so far that helped steering accuracy the most, were stiffer springs, and the subframe bushings. Steering is almost -- almost -- laser straight. Steering input is almost perfectly linear too.

[Orb]

Originally Posted by DaFish

Orb, given my mods in my sig, what would these toe arms do real life to my handling. I am still noticing some slight movement even after the subframe and rear M3 control arms under accel/decel... is this due to the 335 toe arms?

Next question: what alignment settings do you suggest in the rear? and in the front for max handling - given my mods?

Thanks Orb - sorry for thread jack.... it may help you.

The toe will help reduce toe change under acceleration and cornering. Other than the sub frame bushing, this link is the most important one to upgrade then the upper camber link. As for alignment on the rear, keep to the factory specifications.

Originally Posted by cvc 22349a

Thanks for that link Orb. Most of my rear end stability was improved with the M3 subframe bushings and guide rods, but as Harold suggested, the toe links are an important piece.

Hum, maybe....he is using the toe links I engineered. They look like oem M3 arms

Originally Posted by tibra1

Interesting you recommend megan's toe arms..I have heard Megan Racing's stuff could be better..I was waiting on velocity motorsports toe arms..but they have been outta of stock for 5 months now!

So whats your take on the megan toe arms vs velocity motorsports...This is the last item i need for my suspension

For the price it is not going to matter. The will last a lot longer than any unsealed bearing regardless of quality. If you see a suspension parts that are unsealed for a street car then considered them worthless. My own stress analysis show that a 21 mm diameter aluminum hollow tube is not going to cut for safety. The steel arms are going to be 3x stiffer than aluminum arm….the story ends there. FWI, to make a toe are equal to BMW quality is going to cost about 500.00+ retail and minimum run of 50 sets.

[cvc 22349a]

'Hum, maybe....he is using the toe links I engineered. They look like oem M3 arms'

Nope. I just checked his website. He sells the Velocity Motorcars toe links.

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by Orb

Add these rear toe arm and most of the remaining stability problem will be diminished. I wouldn't consider the other toe arms I have seen on the market as they are no near stiff enough. These have sealed bearings and made of steel which is lighter than alloy arm due to the space and size constraints. In short, these are 2x stiffer than a aluminum version.

http://www.meganracing.com/product.a...d=891&catid=54

Originally Posted by Orb

For the price it is not going to matter. The will last a lot longer than any unsealed bearing regardless of quality. If you see a suspension parts that are unsealed for a street car then considered them worthless. My own stress analysis show that a 21 mm diameter aluminum hollow tube is not going to cut for safety. The steel arms are going to be 3x stiffer than aluminum arm….the story ends there. FWI, to make a toe are equal to BMW quality is going to cost about 500.00+ retail and minimum run of 50 sets.

Thx Orb..so are they 2x or 3x stiffer?

[Orb]

Originally Posted by tibra1

Thx Orb..so are they 2x or 3x stiffer?

Given the part has the same dimension it will 3x times stiffer as this is dictated by the modulus of the material. I corrected my other post as that was not correct.

[Orb]

Originally Posted by Motion

I have seen HP's car on the lift in the past...I remember Harold said something about the toe arm being custom..They look like they came off of the M3, but no M logo. He did say they run like $800 for the pair and there is only a couple sets of these out there, whatever that means!

There are only two set that were made. You can see them in some of my very old post.

[TurboBimmer]

Originally Posted by Orb

There are only two set that were made. You can see them in some of my very old post.

More and more people are tracking these cars. Wouldn't a production of these be rentable at this point? Maybe a limited production run?

A toe arm like Megan Racing's won't pass the technical inspection (TUV) here so I need something that looks a bit more OEM