[EddieL]

Originally Posted by toxicnerve

Exactly, I don't touch T-Cut these days. There are far superior products out there. I have posted on DW, I will see what advice the fellas over there offer.

I am hoping a machine polish is not going to be the only answer, I'm not keen on the idea of reducing the paint/lacqueur thickness just yet...

Don't worry about a machine polish reducing your paint thickness. We are talking about microns here. Your car will be perfectly safe.

Listen to the advice on DW but be selective on who is giving the advice. One of your best sources of information will be someone in your area who sells specialist detailing products (not halfords). Be careful again that the advice isn't just 'yeah, that needs a full correction, I'LL do it for £400. Most detailing product sellers will spot test some products and if your not wanting to do it yourself point you to a local guy who will.

All the best with this?

[toxicnerve]

Cheers Eddie.

A chap called Midlands Detailnig is asking some questions so hopefully with the answers I provide he will be able to offer some advice.

I tried to clay a small section of one of the panels affected but the clay did not lift the marks. I am definitely starting to think the laqueur has been etched...

[AlanQS]

If it turns out to be a paint defect, a quick return to the Dealer?

[toxicnerve]

Originally Posted by AlanQS

If it turns out to be a paint defect, a quick return to the Dealer?

Hrm, I bought the car mid-February...not sure the dealer will do anything but I plan to take it into my local Sytner this week sometime.

With it being and AUC car any dealer should be willing and able take a look for me right?

[dxb335d]

Awesome plase for Sunnizle.

[EddieL]

Toxic,

I only found your post on DW because I was looking for it. I'm sure many like myself don't frequent the help section.I still consider myself a novice and that is why I don't like offering advice unless I am absolutely certain. Maybe try posting in the detailing chat section with one photo and a quick explanation. The fact that clay won't lift it is quite concerning as that usually moves anything that is attached to the surface. If it is etching then it is looking increasingly likely that some pro intervention is going to be required, probably sooner better than later.

Still until we know what has caused this it is difficult to suggest a cure.

Here's hoping.

[toxicnerve]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Awesome plase for Sunnizle.

Huh?

Originally Posted by EddieL

Toxic,

I only found your post on DW because I was looking for it. I'm sure many like myself don't frequent the help section.I still consider myself a novice and that is why I don't like offering advice unless I am absolutely certain. Maybe try posting in the detailing chat section with one photo and a quick explanation. The fact that clay won't lift it is quite concerning as that usually moves anything that is attached to the surface. If it is etching then it is looking increasingly likely that some pro intervention is going to be required, probably sooner better than later.

Still until we know what has caused this it is difficult to suggest a cure.

Here's hoping.

Yeah, that was my thinking regarding the claying. Whatever it is does not appear to be a surface contaminant...

[ibanezking]

A big THUMBS UP for 3M FINNESSE IT

I repair guitars for a living and it brings any surface up a treat

If its bad i use Auto Glym Paint renovator first and then get a mirror shine with the 3M

Max

[toxicnerve]

Originally Posted by ibanezking

A big THUMBS UP for 3M FINNESSE IT

I repair guitars for a living and it brings any surface up a treat

If its bad i use Auto Glym Paint renovator first and then get a mirror shine with the 3M

Max

I think someone tried the AG Paint Renovator and it didnt do anything for it sadly.

The thread at detailing world is growing and it looks like a fair few people have been affected by this issue, including a pro-detailer who said a number of cars he had in over the weekend exhibited this problem.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/foru...d.php?t=164870

I have tried everything I can think of short of wet-sanding/machine polishing. I am going to leave it a few weeks/washes and see if the problem reduces over time. Failing that I will try to find a (very) good pro-detailer to inspect my car/offer some advice...if the advice is scary (i.e. wet-sand/machine polish) and we can work out a good price then I might get it done.

Which leads to more expenditure, if I am going to go through the hassle of a paint correction etc I suppose I will have to get it protected...which means a paint-shield!! How much will that cost over the entire car???

[scottishpete]

Sure Zymol HD cleanse would remove these

[themetz]

try a bit of WD40 applied with soft terry towel or similar - i've had success in the past with similarly stubborn marks.

[John320d]

Hi guys. I have been following this post with some interest, and hope the following may be of some help to you.

A few years ago I took delivery of a new 5 series in black metallic paint. On collecting the car from the main dealer I noticed water marks on the paintwork, but I ignored them - thinking that when I next cleaned the car they would naturally disappear. Needless to say they didn't, so back to the maindealer I went with my complaint. The bodyshop tried to no avail to remove the watermarks and said the only solution was to respray the car. I would not accept this, and they agreed with my rejection of the car. They told me to spec a new car which could be delivered in 8 weeks, and to carry on using the rejected car until the new car arrived.

The new car duly arrived and we did the exchange. One week later I had reason to visit the maindealer, and there was my ex car with perfect paintwork. I remarked they had done a good job with the re-spray, to which the salesman replied that in fact the car had not been re-sprayed at all, and that some bright spark in the bodyshop had given it some thought and tried a hairdryer.

I can only surmise that dampnes had got through the clear lacquer, and the hairdryer evaporated the dampness out again. Hope this helps.

This is my first post, and I am not what you would call computer literate - so apologies in advance for any posting errors etc.

[toxicnerve]

Originally Posted by scottishpete

Sure Zymol HD cleanse would remove these

Pete,

HD Cleanse is just a paint cleaner right? I have tried CarLack NSC, some Meg's ScratchX (which contains some abrasives) and tried claying a small seciton. None of these products even touched the marks.

Is there any reason to believe the Zymol would work when all the above have failed? I don't know much about the product hence the questions

Originally Posted by themetz

try a bit of WD40 applied with soft terry towel or similar - i've had success in the past with similarly stubborn marks.

I will give that a go, woudl WD-40 have any adverse affects on the paintwork?

Originally Posted by John320d

...and there was my ex car with perfect paintwork. I remarked they had done a good job with the re-spray, to which the salesman replied that in fact the car had not been re-sprayed at all, and that some bright spark in the bodyshop had given it some thought and tried a hairdryer.

I can only surmise that dampnes had got through the clear lacquer, and the hairdryer evaporated the dampness out again. Hope this helps.

Dude, I appreciate you breaking your posting-cherry in this thread. If there is water under the lacquer surely that is a serious paint defect!! The lacquer is there to protect the paint underneath, it should surely not be porous!

The chaps over at DW are putting forth theories and suggestions too so hopefully something will work. Failing that I will see if I can find a good detailer locally (ideally someone off DW) and get an up close inspection/opinions.

FWIW I took the car to BMW yesterday and they said it would be put down to "outside influences" and any corrective work would be charged for which is pretty much what I expected.

[Anneka @ Sytner]

Hi Toxic, these look like micro-etchings to me caused by the minerals in tap water. This is quite common and can be caused by washing the car with tap water in sunlight. Unfortunately these won't be removed by clay, you will probably need a very slight machine polish (nothing drastic), I would suggest that you steer clear of polishes and glazes before you've machine polished, all a glaze will do is mask the issue.

[toxicnerve]

Originally Posted by Anneka @ Sytner

Hi Toxic, these look like micro-etchings to me caused by the minerals in tap water. This is quite common and can be caused by washing the car with tap water in sunlight. Unfortunately these won't be removed by clay, you will probably need a very slight machine polish (nothing drastic), I would suggest that you steer clear of polishes and glazes before you've machine polished, all a glaze will do is mask the issue.

Anneka, I am confused as to how water/minerals could etch the paint...I can accept that water spots may be left behind after a wash but these can usually be cleaned off.

I don't understand how the minerals in water can actually "etch" the top coat...how does it happen?

Any more tips welcome.

Also, a few more guys have come out of the woodwork on DW...definitely a common issue.

[jingle68]

Originally Posted by John320d

Hi guys. I have been following this post with some interest, and hope the following may be of some help to you.

A few years ago I took delivery of a new 5 series in black metallic paint. On collecting the car from the main dealer I noticed water marks on the paintwork, but I ignored them - thinking that when I next cleaned the car they would naturally disappear. Needless to say they didn't, so back to the maindealer I went with my complaint. The bodyshop tried to no avail to remove the watermarks and said the only solution was to respray the car. I would not accept this, and they agreed with my rejection of the car. They told me to spec a new car which could be delivered in 8 weeks, and to carry on using the rejected car until the new car arrived.

The new car duly arrived and we did the exchange. One week later I had reason to visit the maindealer, and there was my ex car with perfect paintwork. I remarked they had done a good job with the re-spray, to which the salesman replied that in fact the car had not been re-sprayed at all, and that some bright spark in the bodyshop had given it some thought and tried a hairdryer.

I can only surmise that dampnes had got through the clear lacquer, and the hairdryer evaporated the dampness out again. Hope this helps.

This is my first post, and I am not what you would call computer literate - so apologies in advance for any posting errors etc.

you are correct , i inspect vehicle paintwork for VW and have seen these 'water' stains before , moisture has been absorbed into the water based lacquer , polishing or claying will not remove it. At VW we send affected vehilces to the bodyshop to be 'baked' for an hour or so until the stains have gone.

Leaving the vehicle overnight in a warm room should also remove the stains.

jingle

[toxicnerve]

Originally Posted by jingle68

you are correct , i inspect vehicle paintwork for VW and have seen these 'water' stains before , moisture has been absorbed into the water based lacquer , polishing or claying will not remove it. At VW we send affected vehilces to the bodyshop to be 'baked' for an hour or so until the stains have gone.

Leaving the vehicle overnight in a warm room should also remove the stains.

jingle

That is the most insane-in-the-membrane thing I've ever heard!

Sadly, my oven isn't big enough to fit the car in and nor do I have a garage/room that I can get the car into to dry these spots off.

I guess the next best thing is to try a hair dryer has the chap above suggested. I will give it a shot tomorrow and report back.

I assume if all else fails and the problem is indeed water absorbed into the lacquer...leaving the motor out in the Sun should help? It's a black car so heats up quite a lot when in direct Sun...

What do you think?

[flyfs6]

There is nothing going wrong with the paint, those are water marks.

Anneka is correct too, I'm afraid the minerals in hard water somehow stain/micro etch the paint.

I wasn't aware thats what they do at VW to get rid of water marks.

But I do know, what they do on detailingworld (both pros & detailers) and what I have done previously to get rid of water marks which claying couldn't remove was to machine polish the car with a finishing polish.

[Ham09]

Had a quick read through this thread and sounds very bizzare. It sound like you have eliminated the possiblity of it being surface scratches. As you suggest, maybe you should wash it in the shade (dry it off with a micro fibre in the shade) and leave it in the sun the warm up

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by toxicnerve

That is the most insane-in-the-membrane thing I've ever heard!

Sadly, my oven isn't big enough to fit the car in and nor do I have a garage/room that I can get the car into to dry these spots off.

I guess the next best thing is to try a hair dryer has the chap above suggested. I will give it a shot tomorrow and report back.

I assume if all else fails and the problem is indeed water absorbed into the lacquer...leaving the motor out in the Sun should help? It's a black car so heats up quite a lot when in direct Sun...

What do you think?

What a load of nonsense; do they honestly expect you to have to go to these extremes every time you wash your car.
I have an '08 Le Mans Blue E92 and have had no problems with drying marks, regardless of whether I wash it in the sun or shade.
What year is your car? I wonder if BMW have changed the paint spec. I was seriously considering trading up to a new car, but I think I'll put it on hold and watch out for others with similar problems.
Are you in a particularly hard water area and are other local owners of dark cars experiencing similar problems?
This must be driving you nuts and I think it's unacceptable. I hope you get it sorted out - please keep us all updated.

[toxicnerve]

So it seems that one of the chaps over at Detailing World tried the hair dryer trick and it worked for him!!

Utterly crazy! If I go out there and start hair drying my car my neighbours are going to think I am nuts!!

Jon, I haev a 58 plate Jan '09 car. I've washed the car several times and this has only happened this once, I don't what I did differently this time to be honest...

Anneka, if the hair dryer thing works for me then I can only assume the issue is not mineral etching/deposits. It seems that jingle68 is right on the money with this one.

[toxicnerve]

Anneka, did you just post then delete?!?