[Pierre_za]

Hi guys,

I've read a ton of the various installations here, and opinions by the gurus like Technic. I've taken the plunge of a custom system in my E90 almost a year ago, and after a few incarnations and far more money than budgeted, it still doesn't quite sound right. I have a number of theories, and would appreciate some feedback. Even though it definitely sounds far better than the stock Professional system, I find the Innovation model's 13-speaker setup to be superior. The E90 unfortunately also is not really the most acoustically friendly car around, with better results to be had in an A4 for less money.

So, I must now either make radical changes or sell the car.. it's motorplan expires end of 2011 anyway.

My current setup is (see pics):

Morel Dotech splits
JL Audio 12W1 sub, sealed box
DLS CA12 monooblock for the sub
Boston amp for the floor subs
Focal Solid4 4-channel amp for the mids and tweeters, passively biamped

The mids were outside mounted, which definitely improved the midbass somewhat. Their crossovers are mounted in the trunk with the amps, so I can cross acive if I want to - at the moment each driver has its own amp, but the filtering for the mids and tweeters is still done passively (I split the crossover to separate the caps & chokes). The sub fires into the cabin through where the armrest used to be, and a custom "block" was fabricated from wood, foam, mesh and perforated leather. High-to-low conversion is done by the amps; I found no real improvement from an external converter. All filters and levels were tuned over a long period.

The problem is that the imaging and soundstage is poor. It sounds much better than with the previous Macrom and DLS drivers it had previously, and each extra amplification set also helped, but I still prefer the sound of my dad's Innovation E90. I've spent so much on everything already that I'm wary of spending more without a decent improvement.

So, what are the culprits? I have it in order of importance:

- tweeters aren't angled correctly (can't be helped without the proper pods)
- no centre speaker or sides
- no processing/time alignment/EQ
- terrible signal source/HU

What would be the best solution to this? Ideally get a new car with the Innovation system, transfer all the speakers and get an MS-8 but I'd prefer not to take such a drastic step now.

Thanks!
Pierre

[VP Electricity]

I think you've assembled the building blocks of a pretty darned nice system. I think you have some opportunities on the cosmetic and install side, but what you have could sound pretty darned good.

I think you're running into the obstacle that occurs when these systems get to a certain level of complexity - the tuning, especially if you haven't spent much time tuning a complex system before - takes a long time to get right.

So a few months ago I would have suggested you get an audison bitone and set up some RTA capability (if you are interested, here is an article on a low cost RTA setup: http://oeinterface.com/showthread.php?t=360)

But now I have to say, find a way to get a JBL MS-8.

That will handle the OEM HU signal.

It will make xover tuning and amp tuning much easier (turn all xovers off, set all gains to 1V, then set xovers with the MS-8 and let it tune the relative levels automatically).

I strongly recommend getting the tweeter trim - it's like $30 USD and it is GREAT for Dotech tweeters.

As far as the center goes, IMO it is mainly for avoiding "one-seat-wonderitis". I have a nice high image and a wide stage in my car without a center speaker, but the passenger side is lousy (without an MS-8 either - I have the equivalent of a DSP-6 but I've been tweaking on it for a long, long time).

You also can benefit from improving the underseats. I think you have a problem there - filling between a 12" and a 4" is tough, especially when you're using a factory speaker - but the MS-8 also can help with some phasing issues that happen in our cars.

I actually think that the E90 can sound tons better than my Audi allroad did, with a similar investment - but tuning becomes key.

So, in conclusion:

1) JBL MS-8

2-4) see 1

5) Tweeter Pods (these are so cheap as to be ordered now

6) Underseat woofers - Morel ADMW9, Rainbow WOB200, etc.

7) center speaker frame and grille (two parts) and a Morel Integra 4 (perfectly matches the Dotechs, and JBL says the center matching the fronts helps a ton)

Hope that helps!

[Pierre_za]

Thanks VP, much appreciated! Agreed on the suggestions

My biggest concern is about the quality of the signal source.. with a Hi-Fi system it'd have been OK but the Base/Stereo setup's speaker-level outputs can't be all that good, and with its freq. response equalized flat it will reduce the already-limited dynamic range even more. Not to mention some alternator noise sifting through, got it down to a respectable level with some tweaking but not gone.

Isn't a decent head unit with line-level outputs a recommend better way to go? (acknowledging the associated disadvantages)

Also, should I keep my existing amplification with the MS-8 and use its internal amps just for the centre? And for the mids&tweeters, retain the passive crossover? A fully active setup has always been the goal but I have to say the Morels' crossover is actually pretty damn good as-is.