E90Post
 


 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Dinan Software Warning...bad tuners.



Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-16-2008, 06:58 PM   #309
stressdoc
Moderator
stressdoc's Avatar
Dominica
616
Rep
10,853
Posts

Drives: BMW i8; Toy 4runner TRD pro
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Waco TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lndshrk View Post
I did not know that having a Gallardo was now considered some über-metric of business success.

Maybe you can convince Mrs. lndshrk of that?!?

(Better yet, convince her on the Enzo for me - mkay? )

Steve has a company with (approx) 70 employees - that seems like it's
pretty "successful" to me.
No doubt Steve is highly successful and has no need for a Lambo to show it.

We all have a good time poking fun at Shiv: his Gallardo, the swarms of babes, the coalition of the worthy Beta testers -- his overall enviable life style. What could be more fun than a job making BMWs go fast? You guys seem to have a lot of green grass from this side of the fence...
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 07:00 PM   #310
radgator1
Lieutenant Colonel
radgator1's Avatar
50
Rep
1,600
Posts

Drives: e90 335i
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2007 e90 335i  [0.00]
2007 e90 335i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
I wonder what the engineers at FIZ think of all this. At some point in the future it will be fun to compare the 'tunes' of Vishnu, Dinan, et al with the 'tunes' that BMW have developed in house.

Why all the fuss when there are several key facts:
(1) Dinan thought enough of Shiv and piggybacks to try and market his tune.
I've never seen any evidence of this what-so-ever. You can continue to state it as fact if you want to though
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 07:01 PM   #311
astris
Major
603
Rep
1,141
Posts

Drives: M4 ZCP Individual Mintgruen
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by smdandb2 View Post
While you are spouting off bits and pieces, why don't we put that ALL into context.

Here is the information from EAS (where you got that from):



Co-developed could mean anything, but right there it says OFF ROAD. It is not Mr. Conforti's job to ensure that who he "co-develops" with only sells to race teams. If you are using the car for sanctioned race events and it is not used on public streets you can do whatever the hell you want with it.

He isnt willingly selling the Shark Injector with the o2 feedback turned off for catless cars. The Shark Injector is made for people who street drive their cars.
Oh, I completely agree.

My qualm is that lndshrk made a statement about adding meth in this thread saying "methanol injection isn't legal for street cars anywhere in the USA where I hang my hat. This is the law I have to deal with."

Basically alluding that no meth because it's not carb compliant and a tuner could get in trouble. Yet he has made non carb tunes already under the "race" guise. Can't meth injection be "race" only too? Or is it an issue of not being able to seemless integrate it with a flash, not carb? I don't know.

I don't really care that much. It just piqued my interest that meth no, catless yes, but only for "race" when both aren't carb compliant.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 07:03 PM   #312
sales@ESSTuning
sales@ESSTuning's Avatar
388
Rep
3,149
Posts

Drives: ESS M3 / M4
Join Date: May 2007
Location: AZ

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolas View Post
Seriously the fines for selling a race tune for the street is huge. That's why just about every performance product you buy that affects the emmissions will clearly state "for off-road use only". Vishnu's products state this as well.
It is also illegal to sell an "emission-tampering" product or service to a customer you know will use it on public roads. Like a shop cutting the cats out of a registered, plated car and watching the customer drive it away. Just as illegal. HPF also comes to mind with every turbo kit they sell.

People, including most of the market, just don't care is all. However, the businesses should.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 07:07 PM   #313
astris
Major
603
Rep
1,141
Posts

Drives: M4 ZCP Individual Mintgruen
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolas View Post
Seriously the fines for selling a race tune for the street is huge. That's why just about every performance product you buy that affects the emmissions will clearly state "for off-road use only". Vishnu's products state this as well.
LOL, obviously.

You do realize though that the "race" tune is sold to anyone, right? Most all use it for street. That's not even my point. The tuner is just the enabler, the customer the user. That's fine with me.

My point was he cited reasons for not using meth because of CARB, yet creates tunes for "race." What's the difference? Both are not for street use, yet he has problem with one, not the other. That's all. Jeez.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 07:12 PM   #314
astris
Major
603
Rep
1,141
Posts

Drives: M4 ZCP Individual Mintgruen
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvelPhx View Post
It is also illegal to sell an "emission-tampering" product or service to a customer you know will use it on public roads.

People, including most of the market, just don't care is all. However, the businesses should.
Would a shop selling a tune that bypasses O2 sensors for catless operation to registered and licensed street car fall under that category?

Again, I don't care that the tunes are out there or people use them. I've heard great things about some.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 07:22 PM   #315
sirploppy
5 Star General
50
Rep
281
Posts

Drives: 11 E90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Korova Milk Bar

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
No doubt Steve is highly successful and has no need for a Lambo to show it.

We all have a good time poking fun at Shiv: his Gallardo, the swarms of babes, the coalition of the worthy Beta testers -- his overall enviable life style. What could be more fun than a job making BMWs go fast? You guys seem to have a lot of green grass from this side of the fence...
People give Shiv crap about his Lambo not over envy, but in MY OPINION, people see that as funds that could have been put back into the company (i.e. improving customer service). I am sure Steve and Jim coulda afforded one a long time ago...

I Know.. Way OT.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 07:29 PM   #316
radgator1
Lieutenant Colonel
radgator1's Avatar
50
Rep
1,600
Posts

Drives: e90 335i
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2007 e90 335i  [0.00]
2007 e90 335i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by astris View Post
Would a shop selling a tune that bypasses O2 sensors for catless operation to registered and licensed street car fall under that category?

Again, I don't care that the tunes are out there or people use them. I've heard great things about some.
Give it a effing break. Six posts on the subject seems like about 5 too many. No shark injector product removes CELs secondary to missing cats PERIOD. He co-developed a product that does under the understanding that it is a RACE ONLY PRODUCT and he is not the one marketing or selling it. That seems to be good enough explanation for pretty much everyone on here but you.

Personally I'm thrilled to see one of the most respected and knowledgable BMW tuners here on this forum. You made your point, do we really have to read it again to understand your opinion on it?
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 07:31 PM   #317
MacDutchski
Private First Class
7
Rep
186
Posts

Drives: 335i Sedan
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Arizona

iTrader: (1)

Pure entertainment.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 07:32 PM   #318
ween0t
Private
0
Rep
63
Posts

Drives: 335i e92
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: bay area, CA

iTrader: (0)

this is a good thread
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 07:55 PM   #319
Amir87
Gruppe Titan
Amir87's Avatar
Pakistan
258
Rep
2,839
Posts

Drives: 08 E92 SG/Coral
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NC

iTrader: (37)

Garage List
2008 E92 335i  [10.00]
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 08:03 PM   #320
sales@ESSTuning
sales@ESSTuning's Avatar
388
Rep
3,149
Posts

Drives: ESS M3 / M4
Join Date: May 2007
Location: AZ

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by astris View Post
Would a shop selling a tune that bypasses O2 sensors for catless operation to registered and licensed street car fall under that category?

Again, I don't care that the tunes are out there or people use them. I've heard great things about some.
You know there is a way to deactivate the function and the resulting CEL lamp for "cat monitoring failure or not ready" for aesthetics sake (which is what most people want when they change or remove the cats for race purposes - NO CEL). However, the car will NOT pass emissions inspection. This method doesn't disable the OBD and federal EPA mandated functions for OBD emissions-related operation at all.

But by doing so, the OBD readiness checks will not complete and is therefore unregisterable for street use. If the customer uses that type of software on a street car, he won't pass OBD emission inspections and therefore no tags. You don't know if thats what JC did, and if he did, it is well within the limits off the EPA "Off Road Use" exception. AKA, legal RACE tune.

Your question is valid: If a shop installs software like this on a car that is known to be street driven, it is in violation. But if someone states in writing the car is race only and sends in a DME for the race file, it is not the responsibility of the shop to follow up and verify that. Otherwise, you would *never* see any homegrown race cars with any software at all from the great tuners.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 08:13 PM   #321
coaster
Private First Class
coaster's Avatar
6
Rep
123
Posts

Drives: E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Please tell me what I "don't get"?

Yeeesh...Since when does hp envy manifest itself in e-grumpiness?

Shiv
Shiv,

Do us all a favor and stop responding to the haters and engineer-pretenders on these forums and focus your energy on getting 2.1 ready in a stand-alone package (get rid of that annoying two-step process). I am getting a new 335 in March and I hope you have 2.1 out shortly after.

Success will always attract haters, it's a simple fact of life. Scanning threads for usefull info is getting harder and harder nowdays.

Onward ...
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 08:16 PM   #322
lawdude
Colonel
lawdude's Avatar
United_States
93
Rep
2,339
Posts

Drives: 335i ZPP ZSP TiAg MT
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Georgia

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirploppy View Post
People give Shiv crap about his Lambo not over envy, but in MY OPINION, people see that as funds that could have been put back into the company (i.e. improving customer service). I am sure Steve and Jim coulda afforded one a long time ago...

I Know.. Way OT.
It's a conspiracy.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 08:23 PM   #323
Garrett
Banned
23
Rep
1,356
Posts

Drives: 2004 330ci
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Mich

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by astris View Post
LOL, obviously.

You do realize though that the "race" tune is sold to anyone, right? Most all use it for street. That's not even my point. The tuner is just the enabler, the customer the user. That's fine with me.

My point was he cited reasons for not using meth because of CARB, yet creates tunes for "race." What's the difference? Both are not for street use, yet he has problem with one, not the other. That's all. Jeez.
Race tune wasn't a "shark injecter"..? Was it?
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 08:27 PM   #324
WilyB
Captain
WilyB's Avatar
19
Rep
671
Posts

Drives: E92 335
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirploppy View Post
...people see that as funds that could have been put back into the company ...
The Gallardo purchase is part of an extensive R&D effort to open new markets for VISHNU TUNING.

I know that for a fact as I have myself attempted to get Shiv to buy a 2008 Porsche Cayenne Turbo so that he could produce a nice tune for my wife's car. I must say that Shiv has been resisting my efforts. I guess the Lambo guy must have been more convincing than I was.

Darn Italians...

Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 10:08 PM   #325
stressdoc
Moderator
stressdoc's Avatar
Dominica
616
Rep
10,853
Posts

Drives: BMW i8; Toy 4runner TRD pro
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Waco TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WilyB View Post
The Gallardo purchase is part of an extensive R&D effort to open new markets for VISHNU TUNING.

I know that for a fact as I have myself attempted to get Shiv to buy a 2008 Porsche Cayenne Turbo so that he could produce a nice tune for my wife's car. I must say that Shiv has been resisting my efforts. I guess the Lambo guy must have been more convincing than I was.

Darn Italians...

So what new extensive R&D effort are the swarms of babes for?

And you wanted Shiv working on a nice tune for your wife?

Piss, I have a crappy sense of humor. Whatever happened to some of the really clever posters? The guys with 325s and 330s. They're to blame for my E90Post addiction, and now that we need them to lighten up the tuner wars, they're gone. We 335 owners are a humorless bunch of Vogons and fire ants, and we bullied the other hapless E9x owners off these forums.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 10:22 PM   #326
WilyB
Captain
WilyB's Avatar
19
Rep
671
Posts

Drives: E92 335
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
So what new extensive R&D effort are the swarms of babes for?
I could tell you, but then I would have to kill you...
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 10:25 PM   #327
stillclaimndp
Dancing Machine
stillclaimndp's Avatar
United_States
47
Rep
1,419
Posts

Drives: 335i e90 ZSP
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Walnut Creek, Ca

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WilyB View Post
The Gallardo purchase is part of an extensive R&D effort to open new markets for VISHNU TUNING.

I know that for a fact as I have myself attempted to get Shiv to buy a 2008 Porsche Cayenne Turbo so that he could produce a nice tune for my wife's car. I must say that Shiv has been resisting my efforts. I guess the Lambo guy must have been more convincing than I was.

Darn Italians...

he already had a TT porsche... gotta keep a diverse garage, driveway, guest parking... HOA must love SP
__________________
2007 e90 & 1981 Corvette Predecessors: 2007 BMW 335i E92, 2006 M5, 2008 Viper SRT10 Coupe, 2005 Viper Yellow, 2006 Corvette Z51, 2009 Challenger SRT8, 2006 S4, 2001.5 Nogaro Blue S4, 2006 GTI w/ DSG, 06 Evo IX, 04 S4, 04 911x51, 03 Evo VIII, 98 Eclipse GSX, 96 GST, 92 Galant Vr-4, '70 Grand Prix Model J, '70 Nova, '68 Firebird
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 10:54 PM   #328
lndshrk
Chief Shark Officer
5
Rep
154
Posts

Drives: 07 335i, 08 M3, 00 MZ3 & more
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Utah!

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by astris View Post
You do realize though that the "race" tune is sold to anyone, right?
It is?

Astris, let me give you a word: libel

I have never sold a "race tune" to ANYONE that I do not personally know is
a racer (with minimum BMW CCA or SCCA ticket) and that I do not personally
know is using said tune for a dedicated racing BMW.

Unless you have direct, first-hand knowledge that I have.. and I can assure
everyone that you DO NOT because I don't sell such tunes.. I'd ZIP IT.

US Law is such that I cannot control what another business does. If I find out
that anyone is selling race tunes for street-operated vehicles. And I find that
out with a high level of provability.. I would dial my friends at CARB and the USEPA myself.

Yeah, FRIENDS.

I explain the law (as best I can) to all of the dealers who sell my products and
to all of the businesses I do "co-development" work with as succinctly as I can.

They can follow the advice and the law, or they can become the next "consent decree".

For better or worse - that is NOT my decision.

When you come to me with a modified 335i, on a trailer, with an SCCA ticket in hand
and a nomex suit - and I'll be HAPPY to add methanol injection.

Until that time, you (and anyone else) get NO nachos.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 10:58 PM   #329
stressdoc
Moderator
stressdoc's Avatar
Dominica
616
Rep
10,853
Posts

Drives: BMW i8; Toy 4runner TRD pro
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Waco TX

iTrader: (0)

I really need to get out to NCal more often.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2008, 11:02 PM   #330
stressdoc
Moderator
stressdoc's Avatar
Dominica
616
Rep
10,853
Posts

Drives: BMW i8; Toy 4runner TRD pro
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Waco TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lndshrk View Post
It is?

Astris, let me give you a word: libel

I have never sold a "race tune" to ANYONE that I do not personally know is
a racer (with minimum BMW CCA or SCCA ticket) and that I do not personally
know is using said tune for a dedicated racing BMW.

Unless you have direct, first-hand knowledge that I have.. and I can assure
everyone that you DO NOT because I don't sell such tunes.. I'd ZIP IT.

US Law is such that I cannot control what another business does. If I find out
that anyone is selling race tunes for street-operated vehicles. And I find that
out with a high level of provability.. I would dial my friends at CARB and the USEPA myself.

Yeah, FRIENDS.

I explain the law (as best I can) to all of the dealers who sell my products and
to all of the businesses I do "co-development" work with as succinctly as I can.

They can follow the advice and the law, or they can become the next "consent decree".

For better or worse - that is NOT my decision.

When you come to me with a modified 335i, on a trailer, with an SCCA ticket in hand
and a nomex suit - and I'll be HAPPY to add methanol injection.

Until that time, you (and anyone else) get NO nachos.
Ouch! Case closed. There still are honest people out there.
Appreciate 0
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:23 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST