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Dinan Software Warning...bad tuners.
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01-17-2008, 09:46 AM | #353 | |
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This debate can progress beyond conjecture if you simply reveal to us what testing Dinan has done that others (including myself) have not. What is so hard about this question? If you don't know the answer, can you please admit it so we can have a discussion at least sorta kinda maybe based upon fact? These unsubstantiated claims got old 12 pages ago. shiv |
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01-17-2008, 09:56 AM | #354 |
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So you believe that you are on the same level or above Dinan? Have you been tuning BMW engines since late 1970-early 80's? Do you have their resources? Do you have their access? Have you cracked the ECU? All very simple questions. Again you may be good or even great at what you are doing but on par?
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01-17-2008, 09:57 AM | #355 | |
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01-17-2008, 09:59 AM | #356 | |
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01-17-2008, 10:02 AM | #357 |
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Actually if you read my previous posts, I said they were most likely given access, but who really knows, they do have a flash out for the 335. How many other tuners can say that?
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01-17-2008, 10:19 AM | #358 | |
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- Eugen |
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01-17-2008, 10:20 AM | #359 | |
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1. black box 2. understanding what's inside In the first approach, you test as if you don't know anything about the internal workings. A good example would be if someone funded a comparison test of tuner options for the 335i (that would be fun). We'd develop a "broad brush" test plan for turbo mods regardless of who built them and how they approach the problem. In the second approach, we'd test based on our understanding of where the design is strong, where it is weak and how it works. We can focus on the areas we are most concerned about. Given real world constraints, most of us develop test plans that are a hybrid of both approaches. It seems like there's never enough time or money to test as thoroughly as we'd like. But many aspects of testing are boring and most engineers want to move on to the next challenge. So testing if often inadequate. The bottom line is: "Which tuners are the smartest about testing?" |
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01-17-2008, 10:24 AM | #360 |
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He cant, he has an S4....
He is just here to argue I suppose.....
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01-17-2008, 10:29 AM | #361 |
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This kind of statement could be interpreted as a racist slur. I took it to mean that you have little respect for the many years of experience Shiv has had tuning turbo cars, compared to what Steve Dinan has had building a company that markets a wide range of products -- everything from "signature floor mats" to lightweight wheels @ 1249 each + 299 spacer. What is the point here? They are both great guys. I don't get why some folks are so intent on trying to tear either one down. Dinan has a ton of stuff that his company works on. Shiv is focussed on modifying the information processing system of the N54. Can't we appreciate them both?
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01-17-2008, 10:29 AM | #362 |
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01-17-2008, 10:32 AM | #363 |
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LOL, thanks Eugen. You can always depend on lawdude to provide some great quotes....
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01-17-2008, 10:39 AM | #364 | |
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If Shiv is confident that his product causes no harm, let him stand behind it like Dinan always has with all their products, offer a warranty. I'm sure all of you supporters would have payed a little more for piece of mind. |
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01-17-2008, 10:40 AM | #365 | |
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01-17-2008, 10:41 AM | #366 | |
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As an aside, I think everyone has their own areas of specialized knowledge. This applies to more than just the tuning world, of course. I'm in my 30s so I can't claim 30+ years of tuning experience. I've been reprogramming ECUs for the last 8 years. Developing advanced piggyback solutions for the last 6 years. Been tuning stand-alones for the last 15 years. I'd like to think I have a reasonably good overall understanding of the pros and cons of each tuning method. But if you ask me how to re-jet the carb on my shifter kart, I'll shrug my shoulders and search the web on my iphone. If you ask me to revalve a shock, I wouldn't know where to start. If you asked me how to set up the suspension of a race car, I'll refer you to our new hire (who is the director of U.S. Touring Car). At the end of the day, I think we all need to be a little realistic about our area of expertise (and that of others). Making assumptions about how we compare to others (or how others compare to others) just leads to more bullshit on a thread that already has us ankle-deep in it. 14 months ago, many ECU tuning gurus on the various BMW forums were claiming that a piggyback solution simply wouldn't work. That the car would "learn" around it. Needless to say, this has proven to be untrue. This does not come as a surprise to me or others with first-hand experience with this method of tuning. I don't think anyone thinks less of the other tuners for being wrong. While they were cracking checksums and encryptions, we were looking under other new rocks and testing new ways to get control over timing, fuel and boost. While we were at it, we took advantage of the inherent benefits of adding extra hardware to control and ECU that controls an engine. The two approaches are different enough that any expert in one single field will look down upon the other approach. This is human nature and is to be expected. Fortunately, everyone eventually has to come to terms with the real world results. This, apparently, is the hardest thing to do So back on subject: let's try to be factual here. If not for our sake, for the sake of people who are unfamiliar with tuning and deserve a broad, open-minded education. Shiv |
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01-17-2008, 10:44 AM | #367 |
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Out of line? Maybe….. you are stretching a little though, good lord.
and Shiv you've handled the criticism and discussion wonderfully. You make this seem like a useless thread but, some of us are learning a lot into what is common place in the tuning world today. For what it’s worth I think you are well above par with the 335 already, keep up the good work! |
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01-17-2008, 10:45 AM | #368 | |
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No one here is saying that Vishnu = Alpina = Dinan = ACS. Maybe you should go over to N54 and see how well you do picking on he who must not be named and the JuiceBox.
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01-17-2008, 10:46 AM | #369 | |
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You have yet to point out what access and resources Dinan actually has. You can't make a valid comparison with assumptions alone. You continue to make yourself look like an ignorant fool.
You do realize Dinan approached Shiv before they made their flash to see if they could sell his product with a Dinan sticker on it. Quote:
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01-17-2008, 10:46 AM | #370 | |
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01-17-2008, 10:47 AM | #371 |
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01-17-2008, 10:49 AM | #372 |
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No, you can have knowledge (or claim to at least), but why not back up your claims with information instead of just an opinion?
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01-17-2008, 10:50 AM | #373 |
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01-17-2008, 10:56 AM | #374 |
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Looking like this thread has run its course. Nice comments by Jim and Shiv. Thanks!
And Shiv, maybe a new thread on your new hire? Tell us who the guy is!
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