[heracles97]

Guys, I haven't seen anyone talk about this topic. And to be honest not sure if I'm comparing oranges to apples. But want your opinion on this matter.

Of course the DCT will be the winner here.
But how would the ZHP with a flash compare to the DCT?

I currently have the alpina flash and its blazing fast on shifts.
I'm told the XHP is even better at the shifts.

The DCT does have extra goodies such as launch control.

Another way of phrasing this, would the 335is Extra premium worth it?
Would one be able to get a regular 335i and simply fast his transmission?

I'm told the ZHP tranny can easily hold 500HP

Let me know your opinion.
Saw a good deal at a dealership, was wondering if it's worth the upgrade.

[Silent9n54]

Originally Posted by heracles97

Guys, I haven't seen anyone talk about this topic. And to be honest not sure if I'm comparing oranges to apples. But want your opinion on this matter.

Of course the DCT will be the winner here.
But how would the ZHP with a flash compare to the DCT?

I currently have the alpina flash and its blazing fast on shifts.
I'm told the XHP is even better at the shifts.

The DCT does have extra goodies such as launch control.

Another way of phrasing this, would the 335is Extra premium worth it?
Would one be able to get a regular 335i and simply fast his transmission?

I'm told the ZHP tranny can easily hold 500HP

Let me know your opinion.
Saw a good deal at a dealership, was wondering if it's worth the upgrade.

If i remember correctly 335is comes with a Diff. which in my opinion is the biggest difference between a 335i and 335is

[heracles97]

Originally Posted by shanker604

If i remember correctly 335is comes with a Diff. which in my opinion is the biggest difference between a 335i and 335is

Checked online for that as well.
I believe only M cars the LSD.

The only difference between the 335is and 335i is the DCT , better suspension. And slightly tuned motor... but obvs would go for JB4 or MHD.


I just need to know, if the DCT is that much better than a ZF tranny :

[RocketSurgeon]

Depends on your goals. They honestly feel about the same in normal driving, though the DCT shifts a bit quicker. If you intend to tune the car or run it hard, avoid the DCT. If you are tuned, the DCT launch control is essentially useless unless the goal is incinerating tires. The DCT also can't hold the same torque as the auto, and when the DCT starts slipping, there are no rebuild parts. It has a little bit of cool factor, but the ZF automatic is really the better choice. People love to hate on the automatic, but it really is a great transmission. There's a reason the brand new F90 M5 ditched the DCT and went back to an automatic.
As far as torque limits, how long do you want your transmission to last? If you care at all about longevity, don't go above 400whp/450wtq. That's about the limit for reliability and longevity on both the engine and the transmission.
As far as differentials go, the auto runs a 3.46, and the DCT runs a 2.56 (though the transmission is geared very differently.) I think the 335is is turning somewhere close to 3k rpm at highway speeds.

[heracles97]

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

Depends on your goals. They honestly feel about the same in normal driving, though the DCT shifts a bit quicker. If you intend to tune the car or run it hard, avoid the DCT. If you are tuned, the DCT launch control is essentially useless unless the goal is incinerating tires. The DCT also can't hold the same torque as the auto, and when the DCT starts slipping, there are no rebuild parts. It has a little bit of cool factor, but the ZF automatic is really the better choice. People love to hate on the automatic, but it really is a great transmission. There's a reason the brand new F90 M5 ditched the DCT and went back to an automatic.
As far as torque limits, how long do you want your transmission to last? If you care at all about longevity, don't go above 400whp/450wtq. That's about the limit for reliability and longevity on both the engine and the transmission.
As far as differentials go, the auto runs a 3.46, and the DCT runs a 2.56 (though the transmission is geared very differently.) I think the 335is is turning somewhere close to 3k rpm at highway speeds.

Appeciate the reply, pretty much answers everything I need.

My goal is actually 400hp.

Would the DCT tranny able to handle that much?
Or /And would it wear quicker than the ZF tranny?

I'm more keen towards the 335is.
And think I'll go for it.
As long as I don't get into troubles down the road.

[CarAbuser]

I thought the DCT could hold more than the auto before slipping.

DCT can handle over 550ft/lb before slipping. I think the standard auto can hold similar but will start to slip when it heats up.

[Aus335iguy]

Originally Posted by CarAbuser

I thought the DCT could hold more than the auto before slipping.

DCT can handle over 550ft/lb before slipping. I think the standard auto can hold similar but will start to slip when it heats up.

DCT>AT in terms of shift speed and ability to handle torque. The clutch packs are upgradeable. The M3 runs this box as do the M5s. People really need to read more.

[MJ80.]

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

Depends on your goals. They honestly feel about the same in normal driving, though the DCT shifts a bit quicker. If you intend to tune the car or run it hard, avoid the DCT. If you are tuned, the DCT launch control is essentially useless unless the goal is incinerating tires. The DCT also can't hold the same torque as the auto, and when the DCT starts slipping, there are no rebuild parts. It has a little bit of cool factor, but the ZF automatic is really the better choice. People love to hate on the automatic, but it really is a great transmission. There's a reason the brand new F90 M5 ditched the DCT and went back to an automatic.
As far as torque limits, how long do you want your transmission to last? If you care at all about longevity, don't go above 400whp/450wtq. That's about the limit for reliability and longevity on both the engine and the transmission.
As far as differentials go, the auto runs a 3.46, and the DCT runs a 2.56 (though the transmission is geared very differently.) I think the 335is is turning somewhere close to 3k rpm at highway speeds.

This reply is so wrong it should be discarded from the thread, much misinformation on essentially every point made.

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

6MT with upgraded power needs a beefier clutch.
Auto with upgraded power needs a flash and possibly upgraded internals.
DCT with upgraded power needs tuning and possibly upgraded internals. Not everyone knows how to tune for the DCT, some have great results (BQ).

Between a DCT and an Auto, I'd choose the DCT 8 days per week.

Chris

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

It really depends on what power you want to make and what trade offs you're willing to accept.

Of all the transmissions, the DCT is arguably the most expensive and can take the least abuse with a high horse power application (Excess of 500HP).

Where as the 6MT with a clutch upgrade is no problem.

The 6AT is strong and the current flashes available are great improvements for drivability but they are still nothing like a DCT in how it shifts. I've had 6MT and I have 6AT now.

If you have the ability to get a DCT and you are keeping the power around 500HP or don't care that it may fail down the road and require expensive upgrades to get it sorted, that would be ideal (excluding the cost).

Otherwise, the easiest way and most cost effective way to hold big power is with the 6MT.

[BaaQaf]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

Of all the transmissions, the DCT is arguably the most expensive and can take the least abuse with a high horse power application (Excess of 500HP).

Clarification on this. Most DCT failures are end user induced. Prime reason, treating it like its a 6AT. Its the similar reason why the 6MT doesn't last long ie end user doesn't know how to drive stick, burning out the clutch within a year. Get where Im coming from on this ? Both DCT and 6MT cars do not have torque converters but the 6AT does.

I have had 3 N54 cars. A 6AT, DCT, and 6MT. The DCT is more at home when driven like a 6MT, practically like drivelogic on the M DCT cars. Its optimal performance shines in manual mode where your in control mostly. When you start treating it enthusiastically like you would a 6AT, its an Epic fail. Take it from the guy who has launched the DCT over 300 times, a track junky, and roll race junky that was pushing over 600 wtq. It never failed on me, never over heated, and no slippage.

FYI there are plenty of DCT cars in the 600-700 whp. On flash only tuning they can handle close to 650 wtq depending on the tuning platform and the tuner.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by BaaQaf

Clarification on this. Most DCT failures are end user induced. Prime reason, treating it like its a 6AT. Its the similar reason why the 6MT doesn't last long ie end user doesn't know how to drive stick, burning out the clutch within a year. Get where Im coming from on this ? Both DCT and 6MT cars do not have torque converters but the 6AT does.

I have had 3 N54 cars. A 6AT, DCT, and 6MT. The DCT is more at home when driven like a 6MT, practically like drivelogic on the M DCT cars. Its optimal performance shines in manual mode where your in control mostly. When you start treating it enthusiastically like you would a 6AT, its an Epic fail. Take it from the guy who has launched the DCT over 300 times, a track junky, and roll race junky that was pushing over 600 wtq. It never failed on me, never over heated, and no slippage.

FYI there are plenty of DCT cars in the 600-700 whp. On flash only tuning they can handle close to 650 wtq depending on the tuning platform and the tuner.

You make a great point and admittedly my point does encompass the fact that many folks don't drive properly.

Just like a stock clutch on a 6MT can last well over 100,000 miles, others have failure before 12K miles, so the driver is always going to influence longevity and how much power it can hold.

[Aus335iguy]

Originally Posted by heracles97

Appeciate the reply, pretty much answers everything I need.

My goal is actually 400hp.

Would the DCT tranny able to handle that much?
Or /And would it wear quicker than the ZF tranny?

I'm more keen towards the 335is.
And think I'll go for it.
As long as I don't get into troubles down the road.

The short answer is at the power level youre looking at you'll be more than fine with either so go ahead and buy the car you want. Most of what you are reading in this thread is opinion and not really facts.

[RocketSurgeon]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

Of all the transmissions, the DCT is arguably the most expensive and can take the least abuse with a high horse power application (Excess of 500HP).
If you have the ability to get a DCT and you are keeping the power around 500HP or don't care that it may fail down the road and require expensive upgrades to get it sorted, that would be ideal (excluding the cost).

This is spot on.
Keep in mind that there aren't any proven DCT upgrades for the 335is. Dodsen and SSP claim to have a handful running around, but there are plenty of cases of people getting back inoperable transmissions. The ongoing problem is remapping the transmission to use thicker, grabbier clutch packs. The 335is transmission is NOT the M3 transmission, and the N54 can make WAY more torque than the S65. There were only 7000 335is sold in North America, and about 6000 of them are DCT. Support is minimal for such a limited production car. OEM rebuild parts are not available. If you run into trouble, you're looking at beta testing a several thousand dollar upgrade, gambling with a used DCT, or buying a new one from BMW for $10k (seriously, price it).
Of course people will talk about a DCT holding 700hp, but for how long?
I really like the DCT, I think it's a great enthusiast option. If you stick to 400whp, you should be fine. Getting a proper engine tune that works with the DCT is critical. Just know what you're getting into, and the potential costs.

[CarAbuser]

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

This is spot on.
Keep in mind that there aren't any proven DCT upgrades for the 335is. Dodsen and SSP claim to have a handful running around, but there are plenty of cases of people getting back inoperable transmissions. The ongoing problem is remapping the transmission to use thicker, grabbier clutch packs. The 335is transmission is NOT the M3 transmission, and the N54 can make WAY more torque than the S65. There were only 7000 335is sold in North America, and about 6000 of them are DCT. Support is minimal for such a limited production car. OEM rebuild parts are not available. If you run into trouble, you're looking at beta testing a several thousand dollar upgrade, gambling with a used DCT, or buying a new one from BMW for $10k (seriously, price it).
Of course people will talk about a DCT holding 700hp, but for how long?
I really like the DCT, I think it's a great enthusiast option. If you stick to 400whp, you should be fine. Getting a proper engine tune that works with the DCT is critical. Just know what you're getting into, and the potential costs.

There's a lot of talk about failing DCTs but I see a lot more threads about slipping autos at modest power.

Not saying the DCT is bullet proof but it's far more reliable than people make out.

Originally Posted by CarAbuser

There's a lot of talk about failing DCTs but I see a lot more threads about slipping autos at modest power.

Interesting...I've seen the inverse; especially when you throw out cases when the auto equipped N54 was paired with a piggyback.

[LMB335IS]

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

This is spot on.
Keep in mind that there aren't any proven DCT upgrades for the 335is. Dodsen and SSP claim to have a handful running around, but there are plenty of cases of people getting back inoperable transmissions. The ongoing problem is remapping the transmission to use thicker, grabbier clutch packs. The 335is transmission is NOT the M3 transmission, and the N54 can make WAY more torque than the S65. There were only 7000 335is sold in North America, and about 6000 of them are DCT. Support is minimal for such a limited production car. OEM rebuild parts are not available. If you run into trouble, you're looking at beta testing a several thousand dollar upgrade, gambling with a used DCT, or buying a new one from BMW for $10k (seriously, price it).
Of course people will talk about a DCT holding 700hp, but for how long?
I really like the DCT, I think it's a great enthusiast option. If you stick to 400whp, you should be fine. Getting a proper engine tune that works with the DCT is critical. Just know what you're getting into, and the potential costs.

Unproven? Seriously, just stop now. DCT knowledge isn't your bag.

Dodson and SSP have been in the game for a while and have plenty of cars out there running their upgrades. Just a quick Google search will show you that, and on the same note I had a very hard time finding "plenty of cases of people getting back inoperable transmissions". Perhaps you could direct us towards all these failures.

And yes, they are the exact, same transmission internally. The difference is the mechatronics unit and the output flange. And the M3 uses different final drive gearing. The DCT has been used worldwide in applications other than the M3 since 2009, hardly the limited production, unsupported, non available part unit that you claim it to be. Our parts come from the same place everyone else in the world gets theirs, nothing magical about it.

A DCT will hold 700 hp about as long as a ZF will and they'll both fail too. Difference being the ZF is cheaper to replace. I've been well over 400 whp, 500 presently, and 550 wtq for years now. Not a hint of a issue. Never overheated, doesn't slip and that includes multiple 1/4, 1/2 mile events and dozens of full on 3 to 4 gear log runs.

But you are correct that tuning is critical to the function and longevity of the DCT, along with using sport/manual mode to keep lines pressures highest.

[MJ80.]

Have a go at this bloke. Never heard such confidence with such misinformation lol.

[BaaQaf]

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

The 335is transmission is NOT the M3 transmission...........

You are misleading: https://parts.bmwofsouthatlanta.com/...007842585.html

What distinguishes them in terms of BMW parts numbers is that for the E92 M3 the Mechatronics is different and is programmed with DriveLogic, and different output/input flangs. Take these away its the same core transmission ie can salvage an E92 M3 DCT transmission and swap out the Mechatronics and input/output flangs with the 335is, and Z435is etc.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=28_0007

[Aus335iguy]

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

This is spot on.
Keep in mind that there aren't any proven DCT upgrades for the 335is. Dodsen and SSP claim to have a handful running around, but there are plenty of cases of people getting back inoperable transmissions. The ongoing problem is remapping the transmission to use thicker, grabbier clutch packs. The 335is transmission is NOT the M3 transmission, and the N54 can make WAY more torque than the S65. There were only 7000 335is sold in North America, and about 6000 of them are DCT. Support is minimal for such a limited production car. OEM rebuild parts are not available. If you run into trouble, you're looking at beta testing a several thousand dollar upgrade, gambling with a used DCT, or buying a new one from BMW for $10k (seriously, price it).
Of course people will talk about a DCT holding 700hp, but for how long?
I really like the DCT, I think it's a great enthusiast option. If you stick to 400whp, you should be fine. Getting a proper engine tune that works with the DCT is critical. Just know what you're getting into, and the potential costs.

You do realise that the 335i came out in Europe and other markets other than USA right ? There are other countries ?
You do realise that the M3 box is exactly the same internally right? And that there are a lot of m3s with lots of power and torque being driven pretty hard right? Sheesh...

[ssgm1x]

DCT is much better hands down. Thats why all the M Cars use them.

[Aus335iguy]

If you want the best gearbox ever sat behind an N54 from the factory its the DCT. The very same (exactly) gearbox is behind record breaking f10 M5's. I implore people not to listen to people who dont know what they're talking about. READ...the part numbers from BMW dont lie. The 7sp is a beast. Soon itll be even better.