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2007 335i Brake Job: Ripped off or fair price??
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10-05-2011, 09:32 PM | #23 |
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If you did it at the BMW dealer, the price you quoted is actually on the low side. Dealers easily charge $1500 for a brake job on 335i. Which is expected, considering that an oil change on 335i is $150.
The real question is whether you really needed your brakes replaced... |
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10-05-2011, 09:59 PM | #24 |
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10-05-2011, 10:17 PM | #25 |
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price may or may not be bullshit based on dealer and area. certainly not outside the realm of possibility. regardless though, dealer prices are insane for work like brakes.
you can buy bmw brake pads, rotors, and the sensor online for cheap and pretty much any mechanic could do the job without special tools and for much less. HERES the real question... DID the car need both done now? the odds of both being as bad as the dealer made it out are low. also how come the CBS countdown didnt indicate this. there is also a sensor that wears down that will trigger a light. our cars are pretty advanced and so is the system they use to read our key when we drop the car off. if she sat down with the SA while dropping off the car, and he read the key, he should have known that the cars computer was calling for new brakes before she even left the dealership. i would ask to see the records from when she dropped it off, what info was on the key about the CBS status and what the car was asking for. i would also look at the paper work and see if they actually quoted any thicknesses for the remaining material on the pads and rotors. the sensor wears down at a certain point (its is clipped in the pad) and if the car didnt show the sensor how was the pad actually that worn down. then i would be on the phone with BMWNA asking how a pad can wear down to the thickness quoted on the paperwork without the sensor going off. Then arrange to meet with the the BMWNA rep for your area. If they did this to you, they have done it to others, he can look at records and find a trend and go after their ass. Remind your SA that you cannot give them all 5's if you aren't satisfied. When i get pissed at my dealer, i walk in with a red folder full of car records, ask them to print out my cars history, i make sure i have BMWNA written on the folder real big with a sharpie and the phone number underneath. It gets their attention. |
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10-05-2011, 10:22 PM | #26 |
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I got quoted 800 for front brakes only over the weekend. No one knows if you needed them or not but it's certainly possible after 25k miles. Like others have said it's a real dealer price but double what it should cost. I'm ordering pads and rotors and doing it myself. I can do all 4 rotors and pads for 700 using oem parts. Less if using other quality brands.
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10-05-2011, 10:24 PM | #27 |
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i paid 500 for centric drilled and slotted rotors and sensors and about 120 for bads...150 for install...and at 25k new brakes??? very unlikely
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10-07-2011, 10:57 PM | #31 |
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When folks discuss whether the car "knows" it needs brakes or not, they forget a couple of things about how condition-based service works. I've owned BMWs for along time, including an E28, which had the first iteration of the SII (service interval indicator). Same basic idea--the car calculates based on a number of variables when it needs service. BMW has always insisted that when it comes to fluids, it knows.
CBS as an evolution was basically an acknowledgement that fluids need replacing at different times--not at the time of an Inspection I or II under the old system--all it was doing was varying the time you had left until it triggered a warning. CBS parcels this stuff out by mileage and time. My point? It's this: BMW has good data, I think, on fluid replacement intervals based on their knowledge of the internals of the engine and the fluids in use at time of manufacture. They're not so good with brakes. I don't know how CBS calculates brake time, but it seems to do it on a straight mileage counter--something that doesn't take into account how hard or soft you brake, how often you brake, etc. CBS is fine for everything except brakes. So don't trust CBS to tell you when you're out of pads. What will tell you when you're absolutely out of pad is the brake wear sensor, which will get destroyed if you're that low, which triggers the BRAKE light. CBS may or may not agree with this, but if the wear sensor has snapped, you definitely need to look at the brakes. CBS might say you have a bunch of miles left, but the wear sensor doesn't lie unless it was damaged or dislodged by something. BMW dealers will not re-use rotors. With reference to the OP's service, the price is reasonable--for a dealer (I wouldn't use a dealer either for brakes out of warranty). You could probably have gotten an indy shop to do all four wheels pad and rotor for $800 or so. But this doesn't sound like a nosebleed--just dealer prices. But brakes in general with BMWs? Don't trust CBS--take a look at your pads periodically. That would be my $.02. BTW, I sympathize with the OP--out of town, wife has the car in service, it's hard to say no, especially when it means another trip and dropping the car off somewhere else. "Unsafe to drive" seems unlikely unless she was driving around with her foot on the brake all the time and there sparks flying off the wheels from caliper hitting rotor. They tend to be pretty conservative in these matters. Not that I'm saying you should drive your car to that point, but I doubt it was unsafe to drive. If I had done it, I would have asked for the parts back--I think that's just a way of keeping a dealer honest. Once I've seen them, they can have them and recycle them. But I want to see them. Last edited by dmorga1; 10-07-2011 at 10:58 PM.. Reason: typo! |
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10-07-2011, 11:38 PM | #32 | |
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Ask anyone that has tracked their car hard how many miles the CBS counts down.... |
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10-08-2011, 06:11 AM | #33 |
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Those are dealer prices - and they always recommend it sooner then needed honestly. I took my dad's 5 series in for service when the 'service indicator' had about 200 miles on it. The ca has ~ 40k miles on it and they put new pads and sensors (not rotors) on the front and rear, compliments of BMW Maintenance. I looked at his brakes when he brought the car in and they had plenty of meat left - but they don't risk anything and refresh pads way to soon. Not that I was going to stop them from putting in new pads for free
BMW branded parts are way over-priced as we know. BMW always changes the sensor for some reason. Just out of curiosity - Bavauto.com - geniune parts front rotors 154 each (308 a pair) front pads 128 sensor 25 Hold down bold 2 each - need 4 (8) Rear Rotors 90 (180 a pair) Pads 104 Sensor 24 Parts - $763, and maybe even more costly at the dealer. most likely they grabbed you for 4 hours labor (even though it takes them 1/2 of that), plus they might have replaced the caliper rattle clips for another 40 or 50 bucks, plus tax! They might have even tagged on 5 bucks for the anti-sqeal paste. You could get a decent set of brakes for a low milage daily driver car from a local auto parts store for ~400 or less! BTW - on my E46 - OEM brakes went at 41,000. I stuck auto-zone brakes on the car and I changed them out just over 100,000 with meat left but a caliper froze up so I just changed it all. The auto-zone brakes lasted at least 50% longer then oem! rant over!
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10-08-2011, 08:01 AM | #34 | |
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The SA absolutely should have known right then and there that your brakes needed to be replaced via your key, but he probably figured it would be an easier sell by calling with some BS life threatening condition. Remember, SA's get a percentage of the total bill for the work they generate, then being a woman going in alone without her man (no disrespect meant), she was an easy target. Probably saw her coming a mile away. Being a mechanic myself, I cant tell you how many girlfriends of mine either ask me to come with them when they take their car in for service, or have me look over the repair order to make sure it's legit. It's disgusting how people prey on those that aren't mechanically inclined, and it happens all the f'n time. So much in fact, that it's become comon practice to rip people off if they don't know about cars. Total BS, and totally unacceptable. I'd be doing everything this guy said. Ask for the records showing the pad indicators were tripped. Ask for the thickness of you rotors, and ask what the minimum thickness allowed is. I'm almost positive that a car with that low of miles has probably never had those rotors turned, so to just up and replace them is down right fraud!!! Get tough, and get some answers. Also, like he said, tell them straight out that if you are not satisfied with the answers they give you, tell them straight out that you will mark them as low as you can on the service feedback. That's a huge deal to them, and I personally have seen the GM of sandia BMW in NM jump through many hoops for me because I gave them a bad rating when they left the entire plastic underneath cover piece hanging by one bolt after some work being done. Stick to your guns, demand proof, and show them that you are to not be fucked with, and I bet theyll be lining up to kiss your ass, and you should have some money coming back your way if they cannot prove that certain components required to be changed. Good luck, and please let us know how this turns out. I'm really interested in what the conclusion will be!!
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10-08-2011, 08:17 AM | #35 | |
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10-08-2011, 08:18 AM | #36 |
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These threads are funny.
I spent $2000 on new brakes in the 20's, is that ok? Yes, it's very ok, and you got a great deal. Truly, every honest dealership is going to charge you that anyway. Oh, shucks, thanks a bunch, I feel great and will hit the gym and start off a wonderful day thanks to your reassurance. I love you man. Brakes take all of about 15 min. to replace the pads. If all 4, maybe 25-30 min. Ok, lets add another 20 min. since you're doing all 4 rotors. Who knows how much the parts cost, not much. If it's worth 2k to you to do that, then you have the money and I bet your time is very valuable. I doubt Kim Kardashian is going to want to waste 50 min. of her time just to save 2 grand. There's nothing special about BMW one-piston floating calipers, what is special is that Roundel on the sign of your local dealership. To each his own. |
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10-08-2011, 08:21 AM | #37 |
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If it was just pads and rotors, you over-paid. However, if there were other issues (e.g. caliper, wheel bearing, etc) then it might not be so bad.
For a pro, to do all the brakes is a 2 hour job at most. If you price the most expensive OEM pads and rotors (e.g. ATE rotors and Pagid pads), and calculated labor at 150 per hour, you'll quickly realise how badly you overpaid... |
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10-08-2011, 08:39 AM | #38 | |
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Single floating piston?? Pretty sure there are more than one piston(s) floating in my front calipers!!!!!
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10-08-2011, 08:47 AM | #39 | |
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Shops pull this bullshit all the time. I've seen it over and over; a woman comes in for an oil change and leaves with an unnecessary brake job to boot. It's the old "it's unsafe to drive" routine that plays on a woman's fear that the car will suddenly be unable to stop. If I were you, I'd go back to the dealer and demand they put the car on the rack, pull the left front and rear right pads and measure the thickness against a brand new set out of the box. Also, have them show you the wear indicators, because at the little mileage on the new brakes, the wear sensor will have not yet contacted the rotor and will not have any wear marks on it. If the wear sensor is worn down some (like it would be at 25,000 miles) then they did not replace the brakes and ripped you off. FYI this is how the modern BMW brake wear system works. The wear sensor is dual staged. It has two separate loops of wire in it that break at different intervals. The CBS estimates brake wear based on a standard pad-wear algorithm until the first loop in the wear sensor is broken (where the resistance of the circuit changes). Once the first loop is broken, the CBS now has a baseline of pad wear vs. mileage and then can more accurately calculate when the second wire loop will break, which indicates the pads are in need of replacement. The calculation assumes the car will be driven basically in the same manner it was up to the first loop breaking. If once past the first loop break, you change the way the car is used (i.e. city driving vs. highway driving) the end-of-pad calculation will be less accurate. All BMW owners should understand; the car will not need brakes until the pad wear indicator illuminates in the gauge cluster. Once it illuminates, it stays on until the pads and wear sensors are replaced. If someone tells you the brakes need to be replaced and the pad sensor is not illuminated, laugh at them and walk away. I had this exact scenario happen to me. My state requires a yearly inspection. My wife took her Z3 to an independent BMW mechanic in Charlottesville, Virginia, for the state inspection. They called and said the car needed brakes and the car was unsafe to drive yada, yada, yada. My wife, being fully trained by me on how brakes work (she is my brake bleeder partner) and in complete understanding of how the wear indicator works told them,” well the wear indicator isn’t illuminated”, so it doesn’t need brakes. So I got involved and they tried to tell me that the minimum pad thickness the State of Virginia requires is more than the minimum pad thickness BMW uses to trigger the wear indicator. So I picked the car up (with a failed inspection). After looking at the brakes, they were close to needing replacement, but still had a few millimeters of pad life left until the wear indicator would trigger. Since I wanted to upgrade her brakes anyway (slotted rotors and Hawk pads), and just to piss off the Indy shop, I went and changed them out and took the car back for re-inspection. And told them not to try and screw me like they do everyone else. |
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10-08-2011, 08:58 AM | #40 | |
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Oddly when I changed my oil in July, the brakes icon came on when I did reset the CBS for oil - it was not for brakes oil and I couldn't reset the new "mileage to go". I found that there was some undetermined kind of interference. But when I "took care" of the front sensor, the message just went. I have 3/16" of pads life at 60000 miles. They are easily good for another 10000 miles although I hate the way they immediately get dirty. Rears pads were changed at 40000 miles. I do heavy traffic almost every day. These brakes are awesome. |
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10-08-2011, 09:02 AM | #41 | |
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10-08-2011, 09:22 AM | #42 | |
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10-08-2011, 09:29 AM | #43 | |
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Yes, there are decent people in the car business, but yes, they are the exception, not the rule. What I do love about having an American car now is that last weekend it cost $49.95 for a Mobil1 oil change, and GM issues a $10 rebate on that. It would cost me $27 for Mobil1 at Wal Mart, and another $5 for a discount ac delco filter, so for $7 in labor why not let them do it and document it for warranty purposes? |
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10-08-2011, 02:32 PM | #44 | |
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