Tuner Shootout (Procede / JB) - The Bench Tests

sflgator · 12-30-2008, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

There is nothing to re-post... all Terry has said is "its a secret"

The original press release, the one that I used to SELL the jb3 to MANY customers, directly said that it has CPS offset timing control...

The proof is in scalbert's pudding... wires are wires, I/O's are I/Os... if its not there, its just not there, plain and simple...

Hmmmmmm.

This could get very interesting...

Ramos · 12-30-2008, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

There is nothing to re-post... all Terry has said is "its a secret"

The original press release, the one that I used to SELL the jb3 to MANY customers, directly said that it has CPS offset timing control...

The proof is in scalbert's pudding... wires are wires, I/O's are I/Os... if its not there, its just not there, plain and simple...

Dude.. You used to sell the guy's product.. Show some restraint man...
This is one of the most informative threads ever.. please you guys do not ruin it with the tuner war crap

Sniz · 12-30-2008, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramos

Dude.. You used to sell the guy's product.. Show some restraint man...
This is one of the most informative threads ever.. please you guys do not ruin it with the tuner war crap

+1 easy guys, it is a bit one sided on this forum right now so show a bit of restraint.

OpenFlash · 12-30-2008, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramos

Dude.. You used to sell the guy's product.. Show some restraint man...
This is one of the most informative threads ever.. please you guys do not ruin it with the tuner war crap

You are mistaking a logical conclusion based upon verified data as "tuner war crap." I think that, by definition, is the opposite of "tuner war crap." And yes, he used to sell the product.

On that note, I'll back out now and only jump in on technical matters. Sorry if I got out of line

Shiv

MisterSkiMask · 12-30-2008, 04:53 PM

Good ol’ predictable e90post

This is exactly what always happens, Shiv stirs the pot a little, and then his followers pipe up, then the JB crowd gets defensive etc etc

Come on Shiv, let your product do the talking, take the high road for once.

Ramos · 12-30-2008, 04:54 PM

Well, the only fact so far is that Scalabert cannot show how JB3 controls timing, and Terry is claiming that he is and won't reveal how..

I do however agree that since the press release said that it has CPS offset timing control... and then it turns out that it doesn't that Terry owes the community and his clients an explanation..

Can we all move on now? Just let us the consumers decide for ourselves.. just like I am doing right now... as an potential buyer trying to get the facts and filter out the noise and the accusations before buying either product.

Thank you

dhan · 12-30-2008, 04:56 PM

i think its quite amusing to see people get so stirred up about their cars.

i hated control systems. props to you scalbert for the excellent write up.

RiXst3r · 12-30-2008, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramos

I do however agree that since the press release said that it has CPS offset timing control... and then it turns out that it doesn't that Terry owes the community and his clients an explanation..

+1

That was my point. My jb3 customers deserve the same explanation. I am a vendor, not a tuner... I have to trust that the technical info given to me is accurate so that I can help my customers make informed decisions.

Ramos · 12-30-2008, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask

Come on Shiv, let your product do the talking, take the high road for once.

Well Said

Mike@N54Tuning.com · 12-30-2008, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramos

This is one of the most informative threads ever.. please you guys do not ruin it with the tuner war crap

+10000

Bagelfast · 12-30-2008, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

+1

That was my point. My jb3 customers deserve the same explanation. I am a vendor, not a tuner... I have to trust that the technical info given to me is accurate so that I can help my customers make informed decisions.

Yup you are a vendor and trying to sell your product which is the PROcede so everything you say shouldnt even be in this thread because its just gonna be something to sell your product. For that matter why is even Shiv posting in tihs thread, Scalbert is doing the testing and showing what is what, we dont need Shiv and Rixster explanantion on it, since one is the tuner of the product and the other the vendor, umm i wonder what they will say. Cmon guys give us a break.

sflgator · 12-30-2008, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N54Tuning.com

+10000

I agree that this thread shouldn't be a tuner war. I think a lot of ppl will shut up though if Terry reveals more about the JB3. Maybe you can get him to fully explain how the JB3 controls timing and let everyone know here?

2point3 · 12-30-2008, 05:26 PM

Thread ruined.

sflgator · 12-30-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2point3

Thread ruined.

In the interest of this very important thread (which I hope is not closed), I have deleted my last post.

I do agree that the PROcede v3 and JB3 products should do ALL the talking with Scalbert's findings...let's carry on then.

lawdude · 12-30-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1LUMI335

Yup you are a vendor and trying to sell your product which is the PROcede so everything you say shouldnt even be in this thread because its just gonna be something to sell your product. For that matter why is even Shiv posting in tihs thread, Scalbert is doing the testing and showing what is what, we dont need Shiv and Rixster explanantion on it, since one is the tuner of the product and the other the vendor, umm i wonder what they will say. Cmon guys give us a break.

Any member should be able to post. Tuners should exercise extreme discretion and vendor should exercise moderate discretion. Those who have no financial interest shouldn't even be taking sides.

Rick seems to have a valid point that could easily be addressed. I look forward to the other tuner's response (either on his own board or by proxy here).

sflgator · 12-30-2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdude

Any member should be able to post. Tuners should exercise extreme discretion and vendor should exercise moderate discretion. Those who have no financial interest shouldn't even be taking sides.

Rick seems to have a valid point that could easily be addressed. I look forward to the other tuner's response (either on his own board or by proxy here).

+1.

itsbrokeagain · 12-30-2008, 05:30 PM

here we go again

Bench racing ftl

lawdude · 12-30-2008, 05:36 PM

Terry's response:

Quote:

I guess I'm just on a rant at this point but I can't believe Shiv and Rick are complaining about technical specs in the JB3 development announcement that were changed during the development process. CPS offset was replaced with a better method. Direct solenoid control was replaced with a better method. Lean cruise and no boost were dropped. Other features like shift detection and overboost protection were added. So what?

Back to my solution - Terry should provide Steve with certain info subject to non-disclosure.

MisterSkiMask · 12-30-2008, 05:37 PM

It is reasonable for a company to have a secret or two, the Colonel doesn’t print the Original Recipe on every bucket of chicken now does he.

If it is a sustainable competitive advantage that BMS has invented/created then it should remain a secret. If it is deception and a knock sensor then that is another thing. Lets give both camps the benefit of the doubt for now.

usc335 · 12-30-2008, 05:39 PM

Scalbert, great work! This is the type of information exchange that I revel in and I wish was more prevalent in this forum. Facts are facts. Please continue to post detailed technical data on this topic (I, for one, wish you would provide more technical info). Thanks for all your effort and time!

vase330 · 12-30-2008, 05:40 PM

I have learned a lot from this thread and made an informed decision and voted with my feet. But cut all the catsy stuff please.

usc335 · 12-30-2008, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask

It is reasonable for a company to have a secret or two, the Colonel doesn’t print the Original Recipe on every bucket of chicken now does he.

If it is a sustainable competitive advantage that BMS has invented/created then it should remain a secret. If it is deception and a knock sensor then that is another thing. Lets give both camps the benefit of the doubt for now.

Scalbert provided ALL of the inputs and outputs each piggyback reads/controls. If the JB3 is controlling timing but it's not via a "hard-wired" signal, then how is it being controlled? The piggyback can only control what it's wired to control ...

12-30-2008, 04:53 PM	#71
MisterSkiMask Banned 147 Rep 2,014 Posts Drives: I Can not say Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: you must not know iTrader: (0)	Good ol’ predictable e90post This is exactly what always happens, Shiv stirs the pot a little, and then his followers pipe up, then the JB crowd gets defensive etc etc Come on Shiv, let your product do the talking, take the high road for once.
	Appreciate 0

12-30-2008, 04:54 PM	#72
Ramos Colonel 863 Rep 2,897 Posts Drives: G20 2020 M340 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: So-Cal iTrader: (6)	Well, the only fact so far is that Scalabert cannot show how JB3 controls timing, and Terry is claiming that he is and won't reveal how.. I do however agree that since the press release said that it has CPS offset timing control... and then it turns out that it doesn't that Terry owes the community and his clients an explanation.. Can we all move on now? Just let us the consumers decide for ourselves.. just like I am doing right now... as an potential buyer trying to get the facts and filter out the noise and the accusations before buying either product. Thank you
	Appreciate 0

12-30-2008, 04:56 PM	#73
dhan Lieutenant 20 Rep 558 Posts Drives: '11 TiAg E92 335i Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0)	i think its quite amusing to see people get so stirred up about their cars. i hated control systems. props to you scalbert for the excellent write up.
	Appreciate 0

12-30-2008, 05:26 PM	#79
2point3 Private 1 Rep 66 Posts Drives: 335 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Woodlands iTrader: (0)	Thread ruined.
	Appreciate 0

12-30-2008, 05:30 PM	#83
itsbrokeagain 310 Rep 15,745 Posts Drives: 1999 528iT, E53 X5, E46 325xi Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Strong Island iTrader: (7)	here we go again Bench racing ftl
	Appreciate 0

12-30-2008, 05:37 PM	#85
MisterSkiMask Banned 147 Rep 2,014 Posts Drives: I Can not say Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: you must not know iTrader: (0)	It is reasonable for a company to have a secret or two, the Colonel doesn’t print the Original Recipe on every bucket of chicken now does he. If it is a sustainable competitive advantage that BMS has invented/created then it should remain a secret. If it is deception and a knock sensor then that is another thing. Lets give both camps the benefit of the doubt for now.
	Appreciate 0

12-30-2008, 05:39 PM	#86
usc335 First Lieutenant 62 Rep 380 Posts Drives: '21 M2C, '08 E92 335 Join Date: May 2008 Location: so cal iTrader: (1)	Scalbert, great work! This is the type of information exchange that I revel in and I wish was more prevalent in this forum. Facts are facts. Please continue to post detailed technical data on this topic (I, for one, wish you would provide more technical info). Thanks for all your effort and time!
	Appreciate 0

12-30-2008, 05:40 PM	#87
vase330 Colonel 102 Rep 2,760 Posts Drives: 19 E63S; 15.5 RangeRover ATB Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Arlington, Va iTrader: (1)	I have learned a lot from this thread and made an informed decision and voted with my feet. But cut all the catsy stuff please. __________________ E92 335 \| Space Gray \| Saddle Brown Dakota \| Dark Burl Trim \| ZPP \| ZSP \| AT \| Idrive \| 6FL \| FBO \| Dinan CAI \| Quaife LSD \| STG3 PROCede.
	Appreciate 0