[BanziBarn]

Originally Posted by kaishang

Petrol is only cheaper in the UK though, in continental Europe diesel is cheaper by about 15%.

Good point.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by BanziBarn

Bit more info from the mag...


"Insiders say more powerful oilers will follow, although a twin-turbo four cylinder is more likely than a mid-output six."

Could this be an uprated version of the 123d engine?

They've done it in the 2011 model 525d... 218hp 4-pot.

HighlandPete

[dopper99]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

They've done it in the 2011 model 525d... 218hp 4-pot.

HighlandPete

Well spotted that. So looks like the 525d is now a 2.0 litre 4 pot - where it used to be the 3.0 6 cylinder.
I guess the downside is its reduced tuning capability now - cant see it getting 280-290bhp out of the 2.0L 525d like the old 3.0L one could.

[G_M_S]

Extract from Autocar - 6pot diesel will remain........................yes!!

"Engines/gearboxes

The heart of the 3-Series are its engines and the new model is no exception. The bulk are familiar, like the big-selling 181bhp 2.0-litre diesel, which is brought over virtually unchanged in the 320d and 320d EfficientDynamics. But there is one significant powerplant new to the 3-series — a four-cylinder turbo 2.0-litre, badged 328i.

The replacement for BMW’s fabulous naturally aspirated 3.0-litre six, the 328i employs a twin-scroll turbo, the latest piezo-valve direct-injection, Valvetronic variable valve control and double Vanos cam control to kick out a hefty 242bhp and 258lb ft of torque at a lowly 1250rpm.

Faster than the discontinued 330i and only a shade slower than the new 335i turbo-six, the 328i is 11mpg better than the old 330i saloon and promises to be one of the highlights of the new 3-series.

Likely to remain the best-seller is the 320d, which is as fast as the old model but benefits from 2mpg better economy and a 5g/km improvement in CO2.

Company car drivers will be attracted to the new 320dED, which offers exactly the same, highly frugal economy and tailpipe emissions as the old model, while suffering a 1mph drop in top speed.

Most powerful of the lot is a turbocharged 3.0-litre in-line six-cylinder. Carried over from the outgoing model with only minimal changes, it continues to produce a thumping 302bhp and 295lb ft at 1200rpm.

Acceleration is fractionally better (0.1sec), but the main improvement is a 2mpg economy lift and a significant emissions cut from the automatic version of 3g/km, now down to 169gkm — a number that used to be typical for a 2.0-litre diesel-powered family car.

As with its predecessor, there will be a choice of gearboxes, a standard six-speed manual or optional ZF eight-speeder – the latter with optional paddle-shifters.

All models benefit from a range of standard EfficientDynamics functions, such as oil and water pumps, that operate when required without consuming unnecessary power and brake-energy recuperation.

Oddly, given the increase in wheelbase, the capacity of the fuel tank has decreased four litres to 57-litres. Nevertheless, it provides the 320d EfficentDyanmics with a theoretical range of over 860 miles."

[dopper99]

Originally Posted by G_M_S

Extract from Autocar - 6pot diesel will remain........................yes!!

Cant see where it says that in that extract?

[G_M_S]

Most powerful of the lot is a turbocharged 3.0-litre in-line six-cylinder. Carried over from the outgoing model with only minimal changes, it continues to produce a thumping 302bhp and 295lb ft at 1200rpm.

Acceleration is fractionally better (0.1sec), but the main improvement is a 2mpg economy lift and a significant emissions cut from the automatic version of 3g/km, now down to 169gkm — a number that used to be typical for a 2.0-litre diesel-powered family car.

As with its predecessor, there will be a choice of gearboxes, a standard six-speed manual or optional ZF eight-speeder – the latter with optional paddle-shifters.

[G_M_S]

Sorry - missed that was the 335i, try this extract:

Engines and transmissions

BMW plans to offer the new 3-series with 11 engine options: five turbocharged petrol units and six turbodiesels with piezo injectors. Not all will be available from launch.

The long-serving naturally aspirated 3.0-litre straight six petrol engine has been dropped for a new 2.0-litre, four-cylinder turbo unit — recently unveiled in the X1 xDrive28i — that will form of the backbone of the new line-up.

Kicking off the petrol line-up will be a 150bhp turbocharged 1.6-litre four — essentially, the same BMW-developed and Peugeot-Citroën-produced engine used by Mini but turned 90deg — in the 318i.

It will be joined by a trio of turbocharged 2.0-litre fours developing 180bhp (320i), 210bhp (325i) and 245bhp (328i). At the top of the line-up will be a turbo 3.0-litre six with 306bhp (335i).

Among the diesels are three 2.0-litre, four-cylinder engines with 122bhp (316d), 143bhp (318d) and 184bhp (320d). They will be joined by three 3.0-litre, six-cylinder units with 204bhp (325d), 245bhp (330d) and 286bhp (335d).

All engines will come as standard with a six-speed manual gearbox and be available with an optional ZF eight-speed automatic. Both gearboxes support standard stop-start, brake energy recuperation and on-demand control of ancillary functions.

[BanziBarn]

If the above is correct, its odd that the powers remain the same seeing as the 530d has more than 245 now...

[kaishang]

Originally Posted by G_M_S

Among the diesels are three 2.0-litre, four-cylinder engines with 122bhp (316d), 143bhp (318d) and 184bhp (320d). They will be joined by three 3.0-litre, six-cylinder units with 204bhp (325d), 245bhp (330d) and 286bhp (335d).

I don't know this makes sense either.... why have a twin turbo I4 but a I6 in the 525d? Why have a 330d with exactly the same power as the E90 330d when the 530d has more power?

My theory is..... nobody knows anything, including me.

[BanziBarn]

Originally Posted by kaishang

I don't know this makes sense either.... why have a twin turbo I4 but a I6 in the 235d? Why have a 330d with exactly the same power as the E90 330d when the 530d has more power?

My theory is..... nobody knows anything, including me.

I think this is right - it's all speculation isn't it!

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by BanziBarn

I think this is right - it's all speculation isn't it!

BMW seem to be holding the info' close to their chests, as it were. The UK Press Release didn't give much away.

One thing is clear, there will be a lot of smaller capacity engines in the mix, as it is driven by the next round of emission targets and the manufacturers average CO2 figure per car, has to be brought down.

It will certainly make sense to have a 4-pot bi-turbo diesel, as it is a decent performer with good CO2 figures. I personally will be surprised if it isn't in the final line-up.

For myself, if the motor is a good one, I'll likely be going for the 328i, back to petrol, and still with a decent economy.

HighlandPete

[dopper99]

The 328i does look very promising with good performance and economy - from a petrol engine. But I know I'd miss the low down torque too much after my 330d. These days I like to put my foot down in any gear and know the car will go and not having to scream the nuts off it.
I know a lot of petrol drivers wont touch a diesel because they dont rev high enough - some of us dont want to rev the hell out of it.

[chris_s1]

Originally Posted by dopper99

The 328i does look very promising with good performance and economy - from a petrol engine. But I know I'd miss the low down torque too much after my 330d. These days I like to put my foot down in any gear and know the car will go and not having to scream the nuts off it.
I know a lot of petrol drivers wont touch a diesel because they dont rev high enough - some of us dont want to rev the hell out of it.

Agreed, I'd never go back to petrol for my daily driver, even if the economy was the same.

[BanziBarn]

Originally Posted by dopper99

The 328i does look very promising with good performance and economy - from a petrol engine. But I know I'd miss the low down torque too much after my 330d. These days I like to put my foot down in any gear and know the car will go and not having to scream the nuts off it.
I know a lot of petrol drivers wont touch a diesel because they dont rev high enough - some of us dont want to rev the hell out of it.

The 328 looks fantastic but this is a good point. The 330d diesel, is still more economical than the 328, with very similar performance, but like you, I've got so used to the massive grunt that is available without even needing to try - I kind of feel tied in to derv. I've always thought, that to go back to petrol I'd need a BHP upgrade to make up for the lack of torque. So, I think it would have to be the 335i.... but then you loose the economy.

But I'm sure I could get used to petrol again, after all, I used to have a civic type-r and loved it! I just wonder though, now that I'm a bit older, with a baby in the back, whether I'd be willing to be bouncing off the limiter all the time if I wanted to extract all the performance?!

Anyway, slightly off topic, but check this 328i vid out - I liked it

[NoelWatson]

Originally Posted by G_M_S

Extract from Autocar - 6pot diesel will remain........................yes!!




Faster than the discontinued 330i and only a shade slower than the new 335i turbo-six, the 328i is 11mpg better than the old 330i saloon and promises to be one of the highlights of the new 3-series.

11mpg more - it gets 50mpg combined? Incredible.

[doughboy]

Come on guys, get out of the nineties! You can't compare a CTR with a derv ever! I never get near the limiter i the 335i, 5k is all you need.

Dervs are grunty because they're turbocharged and tuned that way. Turbos are what revolutionised diesels and brought them to the masses, and that is whats happening with petrols now.

Who remembers early non turbo diesel cars? noisy, gutless pieces of turd.

These new gen petrol turbos are light, responsive and tuned for grunt and economy just like dervs are, ok they won't have the same crank torque, but lower gears mean similar real world wheel torque figures.

See the new 328i - 2 litre 4 pot turbo petrol, 242bhp, peak torque from 1250 rpm to 4800, and 45 mpg and £6500 less than a 335i.
Diesels are gonna get hammered in future euro regs on emissions, petrol is the new diesel nirvana...

BMW ain't daft.

[dopper99]

There is no doubt that fast petrols have improved a lot in fuel ecomony over recent years.


But then, so have diesels too.


F30 328i

Urban (mpg) 33.2 (34.4)
Extra-urban (mpg) 54.3
Combined (mpg) 44.1 (44.8)


E90 330d

Urban (mpg) 38.7 (35.3)
Extra-urban (mpg) 58.9 (54.3)
Combined (mpg) 49.6 (45.6)


The current 330d still has the edge on economy - but think what the new F30 330d will be like? Probably faster and more economical still.


Mind you, I'm liking the look of the fact the 328i is 105kg less than the 330d. This can only help performance, handling and economy

[acerboo]

ive always found the diesels are nearer to the factory figures and petrol harder to match in reality also that 95 octane petrol is crap so always look doe 97 upwards which is more expensive all in id have a D over a petrol

[NoelWatson]

Originally Posted by dopper99

The current 330d still has the edge on economy - but think what the new F30 330d will be like? Probably faster and more economical still.


Mind you, I'm liking the look of the fact the 328i is 105kg less than the 330d. This can only help performance, handling and economy

Would anyone be brave enough to run one of these out of warranty?

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by acerboo

ive always found the diesels are nearer to the factory figures and petrol harder to match in reality

Agree, that's because the gentile driving style of the standard economy tests and the fixed low rpm gear shift points of the test are much better suited to the characteristics of modern diesel engines and much closer to how you drive a diesel. (test is IDENTICAL whether its a 118d or A Veyron).

Generally you shift up later in a petrol car which immediately makes it use more fuel than in the test.

Gearshift indicators allowed manufacturers to move away from the fixed shift points, miraculously gaining mpg on cars with no other mods.

[IceMan007]

Are 6 pot diesels being removed from the range?

No, I think BMW are only just beginning to warm up with the current 3.0 I6 diesels..

BMW's flagship diesel 5-series will get 381hp and a whopping 516lb ft of torque from its tri-turbo inline-6 cylinder diesel motor...

[conneem-TT]

Originally Posted by doughboy

See the new 328i - 2 litre 4 pot turbo petrol, 242bhp, peak torque from 1250 rpm to 4800, and 45 mpg and £6500 less than a 335i.

With peak torque from even lower revs than the 330d, this is a good thing for those that liked everyday flexibility of the diesels, granted it is only 320d levels of torque but it does hold it for twice the rev range compared to the derv.