[mowflow]

Long story but I'll try to keep it short.

Put a small deposit (£168, more or less enough to tax it for the year) on a Civic for the wife. This was at an independent dealers.

When we went to pick the car up I noticed a fault that i wasn't happy with. The paint was bubbling along the top of the front window seal and worse still if you looked across this area of the roof the metal was all wavy (turns out it's a common fault on these cars due to a manufacturing error with the window seal, many had it fixed under warranty but this car was just out of warranty).

Naturally I said I wasn't taking the car, nobody wants a rust bucket but even more so I don't really want a car that's structurally unsafe for my wife and kids. The dealer said they wouldn't fix it but would see what Honda said. I said regardless I didn't need the hassle and there were plenty of other around to choose from. They then informed me they would not return my deposit.

The deposit was made and car rejected within 7 days so i was under the impression this would come under the usual "cooling off" period that you have with most contracts. I'd like to point out that I never signed anything nor was i presented any terms in writing or otherwise. The dealer is just ignoring the situation in the hope I go away. This is not going to happen

I'm not sure what the dealer has done with the car as it has now been several weeks since I cancelled and I've not seen it readvertised. Foolishly they have filled out the V5, sent it away and I now have this in my possession despite the fact that I never even signed it. Is this fraud as they clearly forged my signature on a government document?

You guys are always very good at advice in such situations so how should I proceed? I'm not the most level headed at the best of times and after being ignored for several weeks am at the point of turning up at the dealers with my mate Mad John to start smashing some heads.

It's not about the money, it's the principal of the thing.

[Hotcoupe]

I'd offer to sell them the forged V5 for £168.00,they might struggle to sell a car without one.

Alternatively you could pick up the phone and have a chat with Trading Standards.

Note: I believe you're in Scotland,it might be different up there.

Glasgow kiss

[creepy coupe]

How did you pay the £168?

[rogerxp]

Again, might be different in Scotland, but there are differences here between 'distance selling' (i.e. done over phone/no signature) and going to the dealers to sign the papers then cancelling. Can't quite remember the differences but there is something. Doesn't really help you but just be aware, just because you haven't signed anything, doesn't always give you any more power. Could be wrong though. Hope you get it sorted out. Sometimes £168 isn't worth the increased blood pressure.

[mowflow]

Paid over the phone using Maestro.

The money isn't really the issue, if anything it's a small price to pay considering what driving the car away could have cost me. It's got a bit personal now, the guy is rude and just generally a prick. I'd like to teach the guy a lesson more than anything.

[davyk31]

Citizens Advice will tell you about whether you are due return of deposit but if you have their V5 it seems you are in a very strong position. not sure if they can get a duplicate without your involvement because if they can't then you hold all the cards.

I would have some fun with them when they start ringing you looking for the V5, wouldn't reply to their calls too easily and be quite dismissive when talking to them. Certainly you need cleared funds returned before you post the document and you know how slow the post can be these days ........... no stamp REALLY slows it down :-)

[creepy coupe]

Pity it was with Visa as Visa Debit Chargeback might have helped.

[Mart1000]

It would only be fraud if they did a deliberate act to convince you were the new keeper, ie signing on behalf of you. I think civil matters are totally different up that way, as said your best advice is trading standards and citizens advice, but I think you'll be looking at some sort of small claims court, which is easy to do these days.

Please tell me the dealer gave you a receipt for the deposit?

[mowflow]

Surely the fact that they did sign the V5 using my name without me instructing them to do so or giving my consent to sign on my behalf counts then? I mean, god knows where that car is now but for all I know it could still be in my name possibly clocking up all kinds of offences.

[Hotcoupe]

Originally Posted by mowflow

Surely the fact that they did sign the V5 using my name without me instructing them to do so or giving my consent to sign on my behalf counts then? I mean, god knows where that car is now but for all I know it could still be in my name possibly clocking up all kinds of offences.

I can't think of any scenario where signing any document using someone else's name (without permission to do so) could be anything other than fraud.

I'd inform the Police of the fraud,if only to save yourself from the problem you've highlighted in your last sentence.

[Cyprio]

Definitely contact C/A. They will raise a case and issue you a case reference.

Their first advice will be that put it in writng and send it to the dealer, preferably signed on delivery.
Write in the letter that you have also been in touch with Trading Standards, then wait and see how they respond.
If they don't reply within a reasonable time then contact C/A and let them know - they will log everything.

[willhollin]

As above, send a letter recorded delivery stating you want a refund within 14 days or you will pass it on to your solicitor to commence legal action.

If you do end up in small claims court you will have to prove you have given them a chance to do so.

[mowflow]

Will do that today. I'm going to call them one last time and give them one more chance.

Cheers all, will let you know how it goes.

[davyk31]

point out in your letter that they do not have a signed order from you, the absence of that would weaken any legal case for them.

[The_Bear_Yid]

So the V5 is in your name?

Doesn't that make you the legal owner of the car?

[sheps]

Originally Posted by The_Bear_Yid

So the V5 is in your name?

Doesn't that make you the legal owner of the car?

No. Registered keeper and legal owner are two very different things.

[Brian mc21]

This is a common problem on the civics. Had my 2.2 diesel and her type r roof repainted.

[Hotcoupe]

How did you get on Mowflow?

[mowflow]

Spoke to the sales guy on Friday. He said the matter was with the sales manager due to him being too insignificant to do anything about it. He claimed that the sales manager was writing to me and i should get something by the beginning of this week. Which I have not as yet.

I made it very clear that I was not going to let this go. I mentioned that signing the V5 in my name could be considered fraud. He gave me some bullshit about how as motor traders they are allowed to sign a car over to me without my consent (seriously!). I just outright told him that he was talking shite on that one. Funnily enough he didn't try to quantify this ridiculous statement.

I'm going to contact the DVLA to see if i can get a copy of the signed V5 to confirm my signature was forged. Also going to get trading standards onto them and start the small claims process this week. I'll also be phoning the sales guy regularly to tell him he's a twat and remind him of how miserable his life is about to become for fucking with me...... I'm starting to enjoy this .

I can't believe the man hours they are putting into keeping hold of such a small amount of money. Maybe they are just as stubborn as me.

[xenon]

Originally Posted by mowflow

He gave me some bullshit about how as motor traders they are allowed to sign a car over to me without my consent (seriously!). I just outright told him that he was talking shite on that one.

Are you sure you're right? As long as he didn't forge your signature (which obviously is fraud) I think traders are allowed to sign per persona and give your details as the new keeper. When I picked up my car the dealer had done all the paperwork pertaining to the V5.

Neverthess, they've backed themselves into a corner ifyou actually have the V5 in your name.

[mowflow]

According to my father in law who worked in the motor trade for 40 years as a director of Belmont then Fairbairns. The law could have changed since he retired nearly 10 years ago but i doubt it.

It's an odd thing for traders to do as it doesn't benefit anyone really. V5s take weeks so you'd still only have the section 2/slip as the new keeper and it doesn't speed anything up for the trader, only adds extra hassle if a situation like this arises.

Xenon, are you talking about your current car? Did you buy it brand new, that may make a difference if you were the first registered keeper.

[xenon]

Yes I was talking new and I suppose that make a difference insofar as they apply for a V5 in my name to start with.