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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
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oil change
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03-14-2015, 12:39 AM | #45 | ||
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03-14-2015, 03:48 AM | #46 |
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I have BMW synthetic oil 5w30 and change it around 7k. I know that I will get flamed for this, but I don t understand what is such a big fuss of using regular oil vs synthetic anyway...Taking in consideration that a lot of seals and gaskets in the new bmw engines are weak and/or last short time, using regular oil with short change interval (43-4000 miles) may limit the amount of leaks the cars develop... We all know that the synthetic oil leaks a lot easier compared to non synthetic. I would say that an N51 or N52 engine (not talking turbo here) would have no issues if dino oil was used in given 3-4k OCI...We may see less valve cover gasket and/or OFHG issues with dino oil...I am aware of what BMW recommendations are for the type of oil is to be used, but I am positive that there would be no issues...BMW used regular oil in the past and the engines ran long time with the proper maintenance. I would prefer to have the oil changed more often (love working on my car) even the difference in dollars between synthetic vs non synthetic is minimal. I would do it if the oil leak chances would decrease...I hate having a car with great maintenance leak oil in the known spots. Now, hit it baby!
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03-14-2015, 06:36 AM | #47 | |
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I downloaded the most recent BMW maintenance manual that I could find (for the 2104 228i) and it says the following: "Intervals Time intervals should be followed using the maintenance intervals as indicated by the BMW Condition Based Service. Maintenance intervals on motor vehicles have conventionally been specified based upon accumulated mileage. However, driving conditions have a major influence on routine maintenance requirements; distance traveled is only one of the significant factors. A vehicle driven for 50,000 miles of short trips in the city with numerous cold starts, prolonged periods of idling, stop-and-go driving, and high engine speeds during acceleration requires more frequent maintenance intervals than a vehicle driven for 50,000 miles for long distances at low engine speeds primarily at operating temperature. The advanced technologies at BMW have led to the development of the unique BMW Condition Based Service (CBS) system which computes the actual optimum maintenance requirements based not only upon the accumulated mileage, but taking into account important factors such as high or low engine speeds, short or long trip driving. Condition Based Service (CBS) CBS is a further development of the Service Interval Indicator System. The remaining times for selected maintenance tasks as well as any legally prescribed dates are displayed to you individually: Engine oil Brakes - front and rear separately Brake fluid Vehicle check Required State Inspection(s) CBS thus determines the current and future maintenance requirements. This data can also be read from the vehicle key by your BMW Service Advisor and used to propose the optimum scope of maintenance." So none of what you said is available at the BMW USA website for review and consideration; and is basically BS. But go a head and change your oil when you want on your schedule, it's a free country. I've owned BMW's since 1988. My first BMW was a 1989 E30 325i we bought in November 1988. It had a conditioned based oil change interval system. That system can be considered rudimentary compared to BMW's current CBS, but none the less it called for oil changes around 9,000 to 12,000 miles using non-synthetic engine oil 20W-50. Back then BMW didn't even sell branded oil at dealerships. And BMW didn't have a "Free" (i.e. pre-paid) maintenance plan. My Wife's current 1997 Z3 also has the same rudimentary CBS system and calls for oil changes about every 9,000 miles and that was the 2nd year of BMW's "free" maintenance plan - which by the way changed coolant (4 years), diff, and trans fluids at 30,000 mile intervals. For the 3-series with the introduction of the N52/N54 BMW developed it's current CBS system that uses an oil condition sensor in the engine to help determine when the oil needs to be changed. The oil condition data is added into the algorithm used to determine the OCI; the oil condition is not the sole determiner of the OCI, but just one of many data points the system uses. I provided in an earlier post that my '06 325i has reached 276,000 miles using BMW's CBS-based OCI schedule and the car has no oil sludge, oil starvation related issues. For the past 250,000 miles my car has seen on a daily basis, 5 days a week, a 80-mile one-way commute that includes open highway, interstate stop-and go, and back road hammering (about 20 miles or so) on roads far better than any track I've personally seen. Worst off, just a mile from my house (in the morning when the engine is not yet fully warmed up) the car climbs up a 11-turn corkscrew that changes elevation from 600 feet to 1,100 feet in just 1 mile. On my return trip home I generally hit the corkscrew pretty hard just because it's there and I drive a BMW. On many nights during the week I put my E90 away for the night smelling like burnt tennis ball soaked in 90-weight gear lube. And the whole argument that BMW wants to reduce it's liability under the free maintenance program is just stupid. BMW has you pre-pay for the maintenance up front when you purchase the car. If it wanted to add in a few additional oil changes, then it would just increase the MSRP by a few hundred dollars. Why BMW would risk it's hard earned reputation for long-living cars to save on a few oil changes per car, when it charges the customer anyway, would make for a bad business case. BMW started the free maintenance plan to ensure its leased cars got the proper maintenance so that it could show potential used car (sorry pre-owned) shoppers that the cars had routine maintenance. The maintenance is just built into the lease price.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Last edited by Efthreeoh; 03-14-2015 at 06:44 AM.. |
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03-14-2015, 07:57 AM | #48 | |
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03-14-2015, 08:18 AM | #49 | |
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Anyway, none of what is in Jason's posting supports what you stated as: "It's funny, you say it's fine to change oil on an interval 50% longer than what BMW (that has a vested interest in making it as long as possible to spend less money on changes it pays for and to make the customer spend less time maintaining the car) says it should. Random guy on a forum says 5000 is a waste, change it with 15000. BMW says 10000 light usage (long trips and open highways) or less (usually 50% of that, or 5000 miles for severe use, or what 95% of people do: urban driving, start/stop, traffic jams, short distance drives). I wonder which one I should follow. I guess I'll follow your advice. Thanks!" So bottom line is while BMW may have dropped the OCI reference mileage from 15,000 miles to 10,000 miles, it is still 100% greater than your supposed 5,000-mile oil change interval mandated (by you, some random guy on the internet) for 95% of the BMW cars owned by drivers who use them in a "severe use" - not a BMW term by the way. Additionally, BMW still relies on the CBS system to determine OCI, which I would expect most cars for 2014 onward will see CBS-determined OCIs around 10,000 miles. So what you originally wrote is still bullshit.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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03-14-2015, 08:26 AM | #50 | |
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03-14-2015, 08:39 AM | #51 |
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Ah, I see we've had our first Oil Change Controversy Thread of 2015. Based on history, I expect this to be the first of four this year.
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03-14-2015, 09:06 AM | #52 | |
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What, like this?
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Last edited by Efthreeoh; 03-14-2015 at 09:13 AM.. |
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03-14-2015, 09:11 AM | #53 |
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And it's only March.. Anyhow, I have gone 10K so far on my N54 and the CBS says about 3K to go.. but changing it today.. Typically, I go for 7500 between changes, got lazy and busy..
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03-14-2015, 09:14 AM | #54 |
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Oh for fucks sake it's like $69-$89 per oil change at the dealers these days, I mean that's cheaper than a blow job. I do it every 6k miles so it's like twice a year for me.
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03-14-2015, 09:23 AM | #55 | |
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People forget to factor in the amount of hours the engine was kept running with the same oil, hence consider the severe use vs light use, how much idling the engine did in traffic, stopped situations, which contaminates the oil greatly with fuel (which is lower quality in North America and pretty much everywhere else outside of Europe, where these engines were designed). You try to make an argument invalid by saying severe use is not a BMW term, as if BMW engines are out of space designed machines, and not simple Otto cycle engines as every other engine in this planet we call earth (save me from different cycles, you get the point). |
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03-14-2015, 11:14 AM | #56 |
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The oil change or the bj?
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03-14-2015, 12:33 PM | #58 |
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03-14-2015, 12:36 PM | #59 |
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03-14-2015, 02:04 PM | #60 |
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Don't forget frequency of start/stop cycles and the amount of condensate that can accumulate.
The good news is, we can all take care of our cars any way we want. Some like me prefer to err on the side of caution and change it more frequently. |
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03-14-2015, 03:08 PM | #61 | |
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The CBS is a bit more sophisticated than, "Hummm.... let's see, I'm near 5,000 miles since I last changed my oil (or is it 6,000 miles - I forgot to write it down...), but I dove the car a bit harder than usual, and I did get stuck in traffic a bit more than usual, and oh, it was a bit more cold than normal, and I did race that Civic Type R with the crate motor imported from Japan to try and impress my girlfriend; so maybe I should just change my oil now to be on the safe side." I've not tried to invalidate any argument; I've just consistently stated the car uses the CBS to determine the OCI, which accounts for the conditions the car has been operated under during use of the current oil load in the engine. You just think you are smarter than trained professional automotive engineers who have a Billion-dollar company behind them and the access to all the engineering and test tools that that situation affords them.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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03-14-2015, 03:45 PM | #62 | |
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03-15-2015, 05:05 AM | #63 |
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Nope. No need, I'm past 186,000 miles. Thanks.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Last edited by Efthreeoh; 03-15-2015 at 06:58 AM.. |
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