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      11-06-2013, 05:59 PM   #1
The Die
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CPO, Oil change intervals, CBS, and spark plug change

I brought my CPO 2010 335xi into the dealership today because the car said it was time for an oil change. While I was there, I asked them if they had changed the plugs at 45k like they were supposed to. Of course, they hadn't. The excuse was because the service interval for spark plugs is "45,000 miles or the 3rd oil service" and my car had only had 2 oil services before this.

Wait a minute... I bought the car with 52k on it. It's only had 2 oil changes in 52,000 miles???

The service writer said that actually, they changed the oil before they sold the car. Well, that would be the 3rd oil service, right? Nope... that was only an oil change, not an oil service. I ask what the difference was between the two and he said with an oil service, they reset the CBS system and with the change, they don't. Really??? Are you fucking serious?

I asked why didn't they reset the CBS and was told that it hadn't reached it's mileage limit for that. They changed the oil, but didn't reset CBS. I've had the car for 4000 miles and the CBS systems now says I need an oil change. I'm supposed to be able to go 15k between oil changes though, and you're telling me that the car says I need one at 4k? Yes, because we didn't reset the system last time.

Anyway, my "certified" pre-owned vehicle had oil changes at 18,000 miles and 39,000 miles. Yes, they certified a car that went 21,000 miles between oil changes. They didn't call the oil "change" a "service", because if they had, they would have had to do all the things that go along with that service, like changing the spark plugs (which they wanted ~$350 for). He also said they didn't change the plugs because the CBS didn't say they needed to be changed. According to the manual, spark plugs aren't shown in CBS.

Had I known that this car had such an abysmal service history, I would have bought a different car, but since it was "certified" by BMW, I thought that everything would be OK. Since when is it "ok" to go 21k between oil changes, and since when do companies certify cars that do?

It seems like BMW is doing their best to get out of doing service on vehicles under their "free service" program by using semantics and dumping that cost onto owners when they shouldn't. I will say one thing though... this is the last pre-owned BMW I'll buy, because I can't trust that the car will have been serviced properly.
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      11-06-2013, 06:36 PM   #2
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We have heard this story before .

We have heard this story before .
Google Mike Miller BMW for the old school maintenance schedule
and some observations on the history of BMW maintenance.

Version 2 is available online as a download you have to email him for
the uptodate version I think its 4

The previous owner was actually entitled to a free oil change every year
(Says so on page 4 of the warranty manual also says its necessary there.)
according to the warranty manual and some have taken advantage of this usually the ones that are aware of what it takes for long term care
or if they wanted to get there moneys worth out of the free maintenance schedule. If the car was a lease then people usually don't care.

And is sounds like they were giving you some BS about the plugs because
from what I have read a lot people got them done at 45k.

plugs should be in CBS and I thought they were at a mileage limit.

Last edited by ctuna; 11-06-2013 at 11:43 PM.
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      11-06-2013, 07:49 PM   #3
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When I go pick up the car tomorrow, I'm going to sit down with the service manager and attempt to get to the bottom of it. They said they changed the oil on 10/31/12 "as a courtesy" when they took the car in, but the car sat on the lot for nearly a year. Now he's saying that the oil needs to be changed because it's the 1 year limit. That's not really a "courtesy" oil change, now is it? Especially if I only get 3 months or 4000 miles out of it.

There's just a bunch of circular logic and semantics that they are playing, thinking that they are going to confuse or frustrate me to the point that I just give in. Little do they know...
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      11-06-2013, 07:53 PM   #4
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Give em hell...
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      11-06-2013, 08:03 PM   #5
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CPO only means the dealer can jack up the price of the car. BMW dealers were actually sued on the East Coast for certifying "buy backs" a few years ago. Always get the history prior to buying any used car.

Spark plugs...this subject pisses me off. Some dealers will use the CBS excuse or other to get out of replacing spark plugs. Some will replace them without question or even asking. One BMWNA District Supervisor told me "the terms of the manual (maintenance schedule) are always subject to change, and they have been changed although it is not reflected in the manual". This came from the Supervisor in the NW Suburbs of Chicago. You know who you are ! Bottom line...if they want your business they will do it as a "good faith gesture".
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      11-06-2013, 08:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken1137 View Post
Bottom line...if they want your business they will do it as a "good faith gesture".
Oh, they're going to pay for the plug change, but the next guy won't be so lucky. He'll be paying $350+ to have 6 spark plug changes because he doesn't know better. Or if my wife had brought the car in while I was away at work, she would have paid that money out with no questions because the Service writer told her that it needed to be done.

Either their business practices are going to change, or their Better Business Bureau rating is going to go down.
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      11-06-2013, 09:00 PM   #7
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Been there, done that... went round and round on spark plugs with the dealer, and how it was not in CBS... showed them their own manual (the repair manual) which states on the 335i (E92) it is not in CBS, never was, never will be... Isn't it funny how they claimed the mileage to change them was 50005 miles... They said call corporate - call corporate who agreed they are not in the CBS, but didn't have the power to override the local dealer. Basically, plan on having a hard time getting them changed. Then again, why would you want a dealer who is changing your spark plugs begrudgingly anywhere near your car? Save yourself the headache, and just do it yourself. There are videos on-line, or grab the bentley manual which walks you through the steps. This way, at least you know you are getting it done right. So much for zero cost maintenance for the first 50K...
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      11-06-2013, 11:42 PM   #8
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Took my car in for service during it's motor plan and thought that everything should have been changed as per schedule, once out of motor plan did the service myself only to find out that the air filter had never been changed, i though BMW was one of the better service centers, apparently not!
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      11-06-2013, 11:44 PM   #9
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I agree with the OP about the fundamental dishonesty of BMW and the CPO program. It is a marketing gimmick, to sell used cars at a jacked-up price. Nothing more. I hope you give the Service Manager a really hard time. In the end, he/she will refuse to change the plugs because they are basically dishonest pricks. But, give them a hard time and at least enjoy that part. Then go and buy some plugs at ECS Tuning, or GetBMWparts.com, or somewhere else and change them yourself.

I can tell you stories about my CPO car, which was sold to me with leaking gaskets everywhere, not evident until I had driven it for a couple of months. In Canada, BMW CPO does not cover gaskets - it is written in 6 point font in the corner of the contract. Barely legible. Dishonest pricks.
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      11-07-2013, 04:54 AM   #10
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And then we wonder why we have engines with sludge problems and so on!! From my observation, service plans = high cost, low maintenance (as in barely enough for the car while adding massively to the cost of the car)...
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      11-07-2013, 08:31 AM   #11
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Step #1 - join forum and complain (check)
Step #2 - read Mike miller old skool maintanece schedule document (pending)
Step #3 - teach others

Here you go:
http://www.burgertuning.com/N54_BMW_...t_adapter.html

Read that link above, buy the $19 socket tool and go by a set of 6 plugs for under $70.

Watch the first 3minutes of this video:


Try to find a nice Indy mechanic to do the spark plug change for you at a cost of $50 or at most $75 for the labor (you bring the part from your online order). The dealership is in the sales biz and the service writes get commision too i believe??? So people need to make money all around. These cars are actually pretty simple to work on if you read the DIY on the forums or try to make some local bimmer friends (heck join the bmw car club of america, in your region to make some new bimmer buddies).

OP, you also have to realize that these motors need lots of care and $$$ to last a long life but they r a lot of fun when they r cared for. I worry for u when u find out about needing carbon blasting, oil catch cans, oil change interval of 7500 miles OR 1 year, changing your plugs every 25k miles on your own at $70 a pop is not bad. Buying 7qts of mobile 1 LL-01 or LL-04 oil at walmart and changing the oil/filter on your own is cheap too. Heck even draining your break fluid every year or two is simple if u invest a little money in the tools (which are re-useable tools and a one time cost which is always less then the total service cost at a dealership for 1 service). Once you see how easy it is and how good u r at doing these things... You will find yourself hoping for something to get near a service interval so you can do the work and have pride in your accomplishment of a job well done and for beating the MAN by saving on labor

- Faz

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Die View Post
I brought my CPO 2010 335xi into the dealership today because the car said it was time for an oil change. While I was there, I asked them if they had changed the plugs at 45k like they were supposed to. Of course, they hadn't. The excuse was because the service interval for spark plugs is "45,000 miles or the 3rd oil service" and my car had only had 2 oil services before this.

Wait a minute... I bought the car with 52k on it. It's only had 2 oil changes in 52,000 miles???

The service writer said that actually, they changed the oil before they sold the car. Well, that would be the 3rd oil service, right? Nope... that was only an oil change, not an oil service. I ask what the difference was between the two and he said with an oil service, they reset the CBS system and with the change, they don't. Really??? Are you fucking serious?

I asked why didn't they reset the CBS and was told that it hadn't reached it's mileage limit for that. They changed the oil, but didn't reset CBS. I've had the car for 4000 miles and the CBS systems now says I need an oil change. I'm supposed to be able to go 15k between oil changes though, and you're telling me that the car says I need one at 4k? Yes, because we didn't reset the system last time.

Anyway, my "certified" pre-owned vehicle had oil changes at 18,000 miles and 39,000 miles. Yes, they certified a car that went 21,000 miles between oil changes. They didn't call the oil "change" a "service", because if they had, they would have had to do all the things that go along with that service, like changing the spark plugs (which they wanted ~$350 for). He also said they didn't change the plugs because the CBS didn't say they needed to be changed. According to the manual, spark plugs aren't shown in CBS.

Had I known that this car had such an abysmal service history, I would have bought a different car, but since it was "certified" by BMW, I thought that everything would be OK. Since when is it "ok" to go 21k between oil changes, and since when do companies certify cars that do?

It seems like BMW is doing their best to get out of doing service on vehicles under their "free service" program by using semantics and dumping that cost onto owners when they shouldn't. I will say one thing though... this is the last pre-owned BMW I'll buy, because I can't trust that the car will have been serviced properly.
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      11-07-2013, 08:33 AM   #12
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      11-07-2013, 08:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Die View Post
I brought my CPO 2010 335xi into the dealership today because the car said it was time for an oil change. While I was there, I asked them if they had changed the plugs at 45k like they were supposed to. Of course, they hadn't. The excuse was because the service interval for spark plugs is "45,000 miles or the 3rd oil service" and my car had only had 2 oil services before this.

Wait a minute... I bought the car with 52k on it. It's only had 2 oil changes in 52,000 miles???

The service writer said that actually, they changed the oil before they sold the car. Well, that would be the 3rd oil service, right? Nope... that was only an oil change, not an oil service. I ask what the difference was between the two and he said with an oil service, they reset the CBS system and with the change, they don't. Really??? Are you fucking serious?

I asked why didn't they reset the CBS and was told that it hadn't reached it's mileage limit for that. They changed the oil, but didn't reset CBS. I've had the car for 4000 miles and the CBS systems now says I need an oil change. I'm supposed to be able to go 15k between oil changes though, and you're telling me that the car says I need one at 4k? Yes, because we didn't reset the system last time.

Anyway, my "certified" pre-owned vehicle had oil changes at 18,000 miles and 39,000 miles. Yes, they certified a car that went 21,000 miles between oil changes. They didn't call the oil "change" a "service", because if they had, they would have had to do all the things that go along with that service, like changing the spark plugs (which they wanted ~$350 for). He also said they didn't change the plugs because the CBS didn't say they needed to be changed. According to the manual, spark plugs aren't shown in CBS.

Had I known that this car had such an abysmal service history, I would have bought a different car, but since it was "certified" by BMW, I thought that everything would be OK. Since when is it "ok" to go 21k between oil changes, and since when do companies certify cars that do?

It seems like BMW is doing their best to get out of doing service on vehicles under their "free service" program by using semantics and dumping that cost onto owners when they shouldn't. I will say one thing though... this is the last pre-owned BMW I'll buy, because I can't trust that the car will have been serviced properly.
BMW generally doesn't CPO cars with over 36k miles on them. Are you sure it's CPO or is it used with an extended warranty?

IIRC the plug interval is 45k miles. There should be a SIB on this site.

As a matter of practice dealerships do NOT reset the CBS when an unscheduled oil change has been performed. This is because BMWNA will not reimburse them for the work. The dealerships/BMW use a key reader to track this information. Usually some other items are addressed at the time the oil service is conducted so you don't want to screw that up. This is also why they said "service" vs "change".

BMW can't help it if a previous owner neglects to have the oil service conducted in a timely manner. This is no different than buying used from a private owner. However unlike a private sale you have a warranty.
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      11-07-2013, 04:18 PM   #14
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BMW generally doesn't CPO cars with over 36k miles on them. Are you sure it's CPO or is it used with an extended warranty?
Really? BMW states that to be a CPO vehicle, it has to be less than 5 years old and fewer than 60,000 miles. I don't know where you get the 36k from.
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      11-07-2013, 04:46 PM   #15
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probably various from country to country, but in South Africa the standard vehicle warranty is 3 years or up to 100k km (60k miles), but motorplan which still covers most mechanical things including the drivetrain is 5 years or 100k km, but can be extended by time to a maximum of 7 years. If the mileage is past 100k km but less than 7 years you can extend to the end of the 7 years and probably increments of 20k km, but the cost to do this is simply mad!!!
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      11-07-2013, 05:49 PM   #16
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That's why I said generally... it's rare since most leases rarely exceed 3/36k in the US. Sometimes over if the owner has to wait a couple of months for a new car to be built.
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      11-07-2013, 06:22 PM   #17
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Do spark plugs yourself, I can do a set on this car in under an hr. Its an easy job.

BMW is horrible at maintenance and warranty work. I had my car in for injectors. I told them #6 was leaking, they replaced bank 1, didn't even check bank 2. So she's going in next week as I still have cold start issues. The fact they didn't bother to look at plugs when changing injectors was what most unsettling. Master Tech my ass, I would run circles around them in diagnosing repairs and actually doing the work.

Only reason that I bring my car in is because injectors are stupid expensive on their own, replacing is not an issue.
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