E90Post
 


Studio RSR
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > 335i limp mode party at the track



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-29-2011, 09:02 PM   #155
wahoo
Bangin' my head against the wall
15
Rep
460
Posts

Drives: '08 335i
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: atlanta

iTrader: (0)

I can imagine your frustration. My car was reading 290 tonight with outside air at 60. This was with 5-6 hard launches. My kids think it's fun for me to let it rip in 1st/2nd. I can tell an immediate difference in 30 degrees operating temp. Very frustrating. I've only had the car 6 weeks. I hope this isn't a constant issue, otherwise I'll dump the thing and get a NA car.
Appreciate 0
      04-29-2011, 09:38 PM   #156
IN54NITY
Major nutz
IN54NITY's Avatar
United_States
86
Rep
1,487
Posts

Drives: '09 n54 e92xi, 6mt, kw v3
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Colorado, USA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 335xi  [8.89]
Anyone try tracking without the plastic blanket on, aka valve/head cover? I'm gonna try it, I will be logging oil and water temps this year.
__________________
KWs - Vorshlags - APEX EC-7s - "My garage" has suspension install pictures.
_____________________

Last edited by IN54NITY; 04-29-2011 at 09:44 PM..
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2011, 05:17 PM   #157
rdub315
Captain
United_States
75
Rep
650
Posts

Drives: '07 E90 335i
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Traverse City, MI

iTrader: (8)

Garage List
2007 E90 335i  [10.00]
So I joined the limp mode party at the track today... Really bummed that I lost out on some track time, but somewhat comforted that this is normal for the N54 and that I'm not the only one this has happened to. I do wish I came across this thread prior to my event. But I digress...

Temperatures around 60 deg F at Watkins Glen today. Running JB4 on map2 with intake, downpipes, exhaust, and FMIC. I guess I'll try running with heater on full blast tomorrow. Anyone else have any other suggestions?
__________________
- VTT Stage 2 turbos, VTT inlets, Cobb Pro Tune (E30 and 93 octane tunes), MFactory LSD, 335is clutch, CSF radiator, slim fans, Walbro 255, AE exhaust, AA downpipes, ETS FMIC, Vishnu DCI, ETS charge pipe, Tial BOV, BMS OCC
- H&R Touring Cup Kit, Apex Arc8, M3 style front bumper, MTech style rear bumper and diffuser
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2011, 05:22 PM   #158
rdub315
Captain
United_States
75
Rep
650
Posts

Drives: '07 E90 335i
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Traverse City, MI

iTrader: (8)

Garage List
2007 E90 335i  [10.00]
Oh, and no apparent overheating issues with the three E46 M3's in my class.
__________________
- VTT Stage 2 turbos, VTT inlets, Cobb Pro Tune (E30 and 93 octane tunes), MFactory LSD, 335is clutch, CSF radiator, slim fans, Walbro 255, AE exhaust, AA downpipes, ETS FMIC, Vishnu DCI, ETS charge pipe, Tial BOV, BMS OCC
- H&R Touring Cup Kit, Apex Arc8, M3 style front bumper, MTech style rear bumper and diffuser
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2011, 06:54 PM   #159
Turkeybaster115
Banned
69
Rep
1,543
Posts

Drives: 335I
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdub View Post
Temperatures around 60 deg F at Watkins Glen today. Running JB4 on map2 with intake, downpipes, exhaust, and FMIC. I guess I'll try running with heater on full blast tomorrow. Anyone else have any other suggestions?
err..yeah, Don't run JB4. More power might create more heat.
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2011, 06:56 PM   #160
Turkeybaster115
Banned
69
Rep
1,543
Posts

Drives: 335I
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdub View Post
Oh, and no apparent overheating issues with the three E46 M3's in my class.
They weren't designed to go into limp mode, like our cars. Trust me, they hit 280F. Castrol 10W 60 is in their engines, so the temps didn't hurt them.
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2011, 08:17 PM   #161
UltraRacer13
Wannabe Track Rat
UltraRacer13's Avatar
British Virgin Islands
68
Rep
930
Posts

Drives: 17 OG M2
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (1)

well ran today at MSR- Cresson, TX. Running Cobb stage 1 V2.02v2. Ambient ranged from 75-93 for last session. Using the Stett stg II Oilcooler, the highest temps I saw we 250! Awesome. In other 335's there were a few limp in some autos (I am MT), and all the cars with the factory cooler were staring at 280++ all day.
__________________
2017 OG M2
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2011, 09:54 PM   #162
mid-corner fun
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
81
Rep
1,510
Posts

Drives: F80 M3, '22 X3MC
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NJ

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdub View Post
So I joined the limp mode party at the track today... Really bummed that I lost out on some track time, but somewhat comforted that this is normal for the N54 and that I'm not the only one this has happened to. I do wish I came across this thread prior to my event. But I digress...

Temperatures around 60 deg F at Watkins Glen today. Running JB4 on map2 with intake, downpipes, exhaust, and FMIC. I guess I'll try running with heater on full blast tomorrow. Anyone else have any other suggestions?
dial it down, try map 5 and heater on. If that works then map 2 and heater on. Work from the bottom up so you don't lose (too much) track time. Try to see if you can get a coolant reading tomorrow too.

Last edited by mid-corner fun; 04-30-2011 at 10:04 PM..
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2011, 10:01 PM   #163
mid-corner fun
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
81
Rep
1,510
Posts

Drives: F80 M3, '22 X3MC
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NJ

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraRacer13 View Post
well ran today at MSR- Cresson, TX. Running Cobb stage 1 V2.02v2. Ambient ranged from 75-93 for last session. Using the Stett stg II Oilcooler, the highest temps I saw we 250! Awesome. In other 335's there were a few limp in some autos (I am MT), and all the cars with the factory cooler were staring at 280++ all day.
congrats!! that's very reassuring for the STETT guys, the cooler seems to hold up well at high ambient temps.
Appreciate 0
      05-01-2011, 08:20 AM   #164
The HACK
Midlife Crises Racing Silent but Deadly Class
The HACK's Avatar
1817
Rep
5,337
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2021 Tesla Model 3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
They weren't designed to go into limp mode, like our cars. Trust me, they hit 280F. Castrol 10W 60 is in their engines, so the temps didn't hurt them.
There's limp mode on the E46 M3s too, or rather, warning lights that tells you of impending doom.

I believe that when oil temp reaches 305 degrees the S54 will act the same. I've seen/heard of this only once though, at a track day where Tarmac temps were registering 160 degrees plus. Coolant temp, I believe, does not trigger "limp" mode like the N54 does. You just get the idiot light when coolant is above a certain level.
__________________
Sitting on a beat-up office chair in front of a 5 year old computer in a basement floor, sipping on stale coffee watching a bunch of meaningless numbers scrolling aimlessly on a dimly lit 19” monitor.
Appreciate 0
      05-01-2011, 08:21 PM   #165
rdub315
Captain
United_States
75
Rep
650
Posts

Drives: '07 E90 335i
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Traverse City, MI

iTrader: (8)

Garage List
2007 E90 335i  [10.00]
Well I tried to get through day 2 with JB4 on Map 0 and heat blasting for each session. 1st session I lasted 2 laps before going into limp mode. 2nd session no limp modes. 3rd session I lasted 1 lap. When I got the limp modes I pitted, turned car off and let sit for about a minute. After restart, I'd get 0-2 laps in. It just seemed so random. Oil temps didn't appear to go over 260. So I'm wondering if I've got other issues.

So I have mixed emotions about my experience. I wish the car held up better and I didn't lose precious track time, but on the other hand it was a truly rewarding experience. I learned so much about the car's track capabilities (aside from constantly overheating) and greatly improved my driving skills. I also now have a huge appreciation for Watkins Glen International, as well as the Trackmasters driving school. HUGE props to Trackmasters!
__________________
- VTT Stage 2 turbos, VTT inlets, Cobb Pro Tune (E30 and 93 octane tunes), MFactory LSD, 335is clutch, CSF radiator, slim fans, Walbro 255, AE exhaust, AA downpipes, ETS FMIC, Vishnu DCI, ETS charge pipe, Tial BOV, BMS OCC
- H&R Touring Cup Kit, Apex Arc8, M3 style front bumper, MTech style rear bumper and diffuser
Appreciate 0
      05-01-2011, 08:33 PM   #166
Martin_hbg
"Swede"
0
Rep
39
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Florida

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Turkeybaster115! Thanks for the updated description to read coolant temps. I needed a couple of tries to get it to work. The trick was to scroll fast to 07._ _ once I had entered the code.

Now to the results.

Ambien temperature at Sebring today started out at mid 60's and high 80's at the end of the day.

My oil temp never went above 280F. I have the AR design oil cooler, 6MT.

However, coolant temp hit 117C already in my second session and the enginge immediately lost all power. No Limp mode however (as in check engine light). After a few minutes of low speed cruising the coolant temp dropped back to normal levels and I got full power back.

Wonder if this happens as the AR Design Oil Cooler covers a large portion of the radiator?

I ran the last 3 sessions of the day constantly checking the coolant temp and as soon as it rose above 114C I put the car in 5th or 6th gear until it dropped below 108C before I got back on it.
Appreciate 0
      05-01-2011, 08:54 PM   #167
mid-corner fun
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
81
Rep
1,510
Posts

Drives: F80 M3, '22 X3MC
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NJ

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdub View Post
Well I tried to get through day 2 with JB4 on Map 0 and heat blasting for each session. 1st session I lasted 2 laps before going into limp mode. 2nd session no limp modes. 3rd session I lasted 1 lap. When I got the limp modes I pitted, turned car off and let sit for about a minute. After restart, I'd get 0-2 laps in. It just seemed so random. Oil temps didn't appear to go over 260. So I'm wondering if I've got other issues.

So I have mixed emotions about my experience. I wish the car held up better and I didn't lose precious track time, but on the other hand it was a truly rewarding experience. I learned so much about the car's track capabilities (aside from constantly overheating) and greatly improved my driving skills. I also now have a huge appreciation for Watkins Glen International, as well as the Trackmasters driving school. HUGE props to Trackmasters!
Most likely coolant probs. Join the club.

If you want to be sure though read your codes, what else did you get other than 3100?
Appreciate 0
      05-01-2011, 10:03 PM   #168
Turkeybaster115
Banned
69
Rep
1,543
Posts

Drives: 335I
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin_hbg View Post
Thanks Turkeybaster115! Thanks for the updated description to read coolant temps. I needed a couple of tries to get it to work. The trick was to scroll fast to 07._ _ once I had entered the code.
NO, Thank you, for logging temps, and reporting back here. We need as much data as we can get, so we know if we need to upgrade our stock cooling system.
Appreciate 0
      05-01-2011, 11:07 PM   #169
jbass524
Major
jbass524's Avatar
99
Rep
1,050
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norcal

iTrader: (2)

OK. Here goes with the facts for you AT drivers: Thunderhill, 2 full days: ran 2:09s on fastest laps, 2:10s with passenger. I only note this so you can tell how hard I was driving. This is vital as not everyone drives the same way and stresses their car the same way. For instance: some people have the AR cooler and it works for them. Some have 1 Stett and it works. I'm confident neither of these setups would work for me. I had the AR so I have first hand experience and the dual ER system I currently have is just barely enough.

Bad News (not too bad): One limp mode due to a quirk if you do a high rev down shit when the car is hot and your not on the gas. Back pressuer seems to cause. It's happened 4 or 5 times. No biggy I just make sure to not down shift like that.

Good News (Really Good): I finally have the car that was promised by BMW. I run stock power with ER competition oil coolers and 100% water with Mocool; other mods in SIG. It's transformed my car. It still gets hot but not so much I have good power throughout a 30 minute sessions at 100%. It would normally map back under high heat and lose quite a bit of power above 270. No short shifting. No limp modes - besides the one above.

The Data:
Morning sessions - 58 - 68 ambient - never saw over 265 oil temps and 98c coolant temps. I know, close to boiling temps but far better than the 117 mentioned above.

Afternoon sessions - 72 - 80 ambient - saw some 275 oil temps towards the end of the sessions and 102c coolant.

I was able to drive at 100% for the entirety of all sessions and power mapped back only minimally - butt dyno only ;-)

Really pleased. I originally had the ER setup with normal coolant. I still would lose some power and got one limp mode due to coolant temps on a previous track day. The distilled water and Mocool really made a nice difference.

Appreciate 0
      05-02-2011, 07:34 AM   #170
Martin_hbg
"Swede"
0
Rep
39
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Florida

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbass524 View Post
The Data:
Morning sessions - 58 - 68 ambient - never saw over 265 oil temps and 98c coolant temps. I know, close to boiling temps but far better than the 117 mentioned above.

Afternoon sessions - 72 - 80 ambient - saw some 275 oil temps towards the end of the sessions and 102c coolant.

I was able to drive at 100% for the entirety of all sessions and power mapped back only minimally - butt dyno only ;-)

Really pleased. I originally had the ER setup with normal coolant. I still would lose some power and got one limp mode due to coolant temps on a previous track day. The distilled water and Mocool really made a nice difference.

Hmmm.... So previously with your stett OC you ran the coolant to 117C which caused the limp modes. After replacing coolant with Distilled Water and Mocool you reduced coolant temps by a good 15C which solved your problem.....?

I got the manual transmission so if the Distilled Water and Mocool trick will reduce my coolant temps with 15C I should not need to upgrade the radiator yet.......

Anybody else that can confirm coolant temps dropped by 15C with Mocool and Distilled Water?
Appreciate 0
      05-02-2011, 08:29 AM   #171
jbass524
Major
jbass524's Avatar
99
Rep
1,050
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norcal

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin_hbg View Post
Hmmm.... So previously with your stett OC you ran the coolant to 117C which caused the limp modes. After replacing coolant with Distilled Water and Mocool you reduced coolant temps by a good 15C which solved your problem.....?
I never had the stett. I had the AR then replaced it with the ER competition oil coolers.
Appreciate 0
      05-02-2011, 08:35 AM   #172
Martin_hbg
"Swede"
0
Rep
39
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Florida

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbass524 View Post
I never had the stett. I had the AR then replaced it with the ER competition oil coolers.
Sorry, my bad. I meant even with the ER Oil Cooler you still had Coolant issue but with Distilled Water and Mocool the issue was resolved. That gives me hope.

Last edited by Martin_hbg; 05-02-2011 at 08:45 AM..
Appreciate 0
      05-02-2011, 09:21 AM   #173
jbass524
Major
jbass524's Avatar
99
Rep
1,050
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norcal

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin_hbg View Post
Sorry, my bad. I meant even with the ER Oil Cooler you still had Coolant issue but with Distilled Water and Mocool the issue was resolved. That gives me hope.
Yes
Appreciate 0
      05-02-2011, 09:33 AM   #174
mid-corner fun
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
81
Rep
1,510
Posts

Drives: F80 M3, '22 X3MC
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NJ

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbass524 View Post
OK. Here goes with the facts for you AT drivers: Thunderhill, 2 full days: ran 2:09s on fastest laps, 2:10s with passenger. I only note this so you can tell how hard I was driving. This is vital as not everyone drives the same way and stresses their car the same way. For instance: some people have the AR cooler and it works for them. Some have 1 Stett and it works. I'm confident neither of these setups would work for me. I had the AR so I have first hand experience and the dual ER system I currently have is just barely enough.

Bad News (not too bad): One limp mode due to a quirk if you do a high rev down shit when the car is hot and your not on the gas. Back pressuer seems to cause. It's happened 4 or 5 times. No biggy I just make sure to not down shift like that.

Good News (Really Good): I finally have the car that was promised by BMW. I run stock power with ER competition oil coolers and 100% water with Mocool; other mods in SIG. It's transformed my car. It still gets hot but not so much I have good power throughout a 30 minute sessions at 100%. It would normally map back under high heat and lose quite a bit of power above 270. No short shifting. No limp modes - besides the one above.

The Data:
Morning sessions - 58 - 68 ambient - never saw over 265 oil temps and 98c coolant temps. I know, close to boiling temps but far better than the 117 mentioned above.

Afternoon sessions - 72 - 80 ambient - saw some 275 oil temps towards the end of the sessions and 102c coolant.

I was able to drive at 100% for the entirety of all sessions and power mapped back only minimally - butt dyno only ;-)

Really pleased. I originally had the ER setup with normal coolant. I still would lose some power and got one limp mode due to coolant temps on a previous track day. The distilled water and Mocool really made a nice difference.

Very nice, congrats. So now we have 2 track-based water temps data points, let's keep them coming! I'll try to organize them in a small/readable format so we can all benefit.
Appreciate 0
      05-02-2011, 09:59 AM   #175
mid-corner fun
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
81
Rep
1,510
Posts

Drives: F80 M3, '22 X3MC
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NJ

iTrader: (5)

Does this work? Send me as many data points as you have and I'll keep updating it. As jbass mentioned lap times are useful as an indication of how hard the car is driven.

Appreciate 0
      05-02-2011, 12:21 PM   #176
jbass524
Major
jbass524's Avatar
99
Rep
1,050
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norcal

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterM1 View Post
Does this work? Send me as many data points as you have and I'll keep updating it. As jbass mentioned lap times are useful as an indication of how hard the car is driven.

This is great. PeterM1. BTW, I was doing 2:11 and 2:10 in the morning sessions.

I am going to have a conversation with Andrew at AR about the relation between radiator, transmission cooling and oil coolers. He has a new radiator coming out and like Turkey. Mentioned this may not be the culprit. Harold at HP has data that says it is though.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:37 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST