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I have this notion of swapping out the stock SP RE-050 runflats for a set of PZero Nero UHP All Seasons, perhaps in 235/265 plus sizes (stock wheels).

It's a lease, so I need something to drive on that's less expensive than the runflats, and maybe nicer too.

After checking the Tirerack reviews on these 2 tires, it appears that the runflats have just about similar dry and wet grip as the PZero all seasons. But the all seasons can do snow, where the RE-050 cannot.


So what do you think? Any direct experience with the Pirelli all seasons?

[JKratty]

I've owned both, and I seem to be one of the few -- if the only -- serious detractor on these forums of the Nero M&S. I found them below average in every respect.

Dry traction is mediocre. Even with my lowly 200hp Eclipse, I had a hard time keeping it stuck to the pavement in both straight lines and corners. Side walls are soft and tend to give up early in a hard corner as well.

It was very easy to hydroplane on damp roads.

Snow...no way. I suppose if your choice is UHP summer tires (like the RFTs or PS2, Exclaims, whatever) you're better off with the Nero M&S. But considering I came from dedicated winters (Blizzak LM-25s, which are unstoppable. Just got a set for my 335), the difference for the worse was dramatic. Where the Blizzaks would easily march up a snow-covered incline from a dead stop, the Neros would lose grip almost immediately.

Just my $0.02.

[LOLrance]

Originally Posted by JKratty

I've owned both, and I seem to be one of the few -- if the only -- serious detractor on these forums of the Nero M&S. I found them below average in every respect.

Dry traction is mediocre. Even with my lowly 200hp Eclipse, I had a hard time keeping it stuck to the pavement in both straight lines and corners. Side walls are soft and tend to give up early in a hard corner as well.

It was very easy to hydroplane on damp roads.

Snow...no way. I suppose if your choice is UHP summer tires (like the RFTs or PS2, Exclaims, whatever) you're better off with the Nero M&S. But considering I came from dedicated winters (Blizzak LM-25s, which are unstoppable. Just got a set for my 335), the difference for the worse was dramatic. Where the Blizzaks would easily march up a snow-covered incline from a dead stop, the Neros would lose grip almost immediately.

Just my $0.02.

+1. I thought the Nero M+S were decent if you dont do any "sporty" driving at all. I was very suprised to see how many people actually liked these tires on the forum. On the freeway the tramline like crazy (follow the grooves of the road) and when its wet, it feel just like any other all season would. Nothing special.

Im scared to even find out how the Pirelli would do is snow

[kevE90]

I've never tried the Pzero Nero M+S. While reading reviews of these tires you hear alot of good things said about them. Once you start to dig alittle deeper you read stories of people being less satisfied with the tires. Most say they were reliable (as reliable as an all-season w/RWD would be) through the first winter but horrible the next. Maybe try the Yokohama Advan S.4???

[adc]

Originally Posted by kevE90zsp

Maybe try the Yokohama Advan S.4???

Michelin Pilot Sport A/S?

Goodyear F1 All Season? (These have CF reinforcements in the sidewalls).

[rooster3.0]

I liked the nero m&s. They're way better than these pos runflats. Out of curiosity, why an all season? I'd get ps2 if ya wanna spend the cash, or a goodyear gs-d3 to save some cash.

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Originally Posted by rooster3.0

Out of curiosity, why an all season? I'd get ps2 if ya wanna spend the cash, or a goodyear gs-d3 to save some cash.

Well originally I wanted to go with the RE-01R. Significantly cheaper than the PS2 (around $900) and by all accounts, stickier. But then I found out that these would be totally useless in cold weather, much more so than PS2.

I drove PS2 in the winter and was ok in my area, except for the 3-4 days of snow on the ground - which perhaps can be avoided via carpooling.


But then again, if I can get a set of UHP all seasons that are comparable with the stock runflats in the dry/wet, I wouldn't give up anything in terms of performance (from stock) and I'd gain some winter ability.

[Gary@TireRack]

Originally Posted by adc

But then again, if I can get a set of UHP all seasons that are comparable with the stock runflats in the dry/wet, I wouldn't give up anything in terms of performance (from stock) and I'd gain some winter ability.

Sadly, this is not currently possible IMO . Tires like the F1A/S may come close, but ultimately are a slight step down in terms of performance in dry handling.

http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=AH8&...ires/index.jsp

[adc]

Originally Posted by Gary@TireRack

Sadly, this is not currently possible IMO . Tires like the F1A/S may come close, but ultimately are a slight step down in terms of performance in dry handling.

Gary, thank you for your input... it's exactly what I was looking for...


I could offset the slight step down in dry grip by going a +1 width on the stock rims - although I am not sure it would do anything for the handling.


More thinking is in order, for sure...

[Sniz]

I am in the same boat as you, however I am going to be stepping up to 19" wheels. I do not want to have 2 sets of wheels/tires for different seasons so I will be on whatever tire I chose all year round. I do have a 4x4 truck to use in bad weather so I don't PLAN on driving in snow/ice but it could happen.

From my experience w/ high hp cars and cold weather, be VERY careful w/ these cars and summer performance tires. They will lose a lot of their stick when its freezing out and the car can let go on corners when your not expecting it. I totalled my Volvo S60R which is AWD when I was running GY F1's in 40 degree rainy weather. Deer jumped out....I hit the brakes hard and tried to turn but the car just lost it even w/ the AWD. AWD is great but it cant change physics. I wasnt going all that fast, maybe 55mph but the tires just turned to hockey pucks and I was skating sideways towards a guardrail.


So I'm either going to run summer tires all year and watch my ass or go w/ high performance all seasons and give up some of the fun factor all year round but maintain a margin of safety in the winter months.


Choices.......

[Doc E]

the sidewalls on the nero M+S's are way too soft, i hated these tires on the highway.

[judec]

all season wheels are a perfect choice. "perfect"...

not good enough in summer, also not good enoug in winter, but in average... unfortunately average is not good enough for me. I thought all bimmer owners are similar...

[adc]

Originally Posted by judec

all season wheels are a perfect choice. "perfect"...

not good enough in summer, also not good enoug in winter, but in average... unfortunately average is not good enough for me. I thought all bimmer owners are similar...

I asked some very specific questions about some very specific tires, just so that I don't get any useless generalities... Your answer doesn't help me in any way - there's not even a suggestion of what other non-average tires I should go for.

But thanks anyway, I guess...

[douger]

I had the PZero M+S on my car for a while (ultimately had to get rid of them because they conflicted with my xi) -- see below post if intrested.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ghlight=douger

Ignoring my xi specific problem, I found the tires to perform very well. They provided what seemed to me like a very high level of dry grip for a UHP all season tire.

[adc]

Originally Posted by douger

Ignoring my xi specific problem, I found the tires to perform very well. They provided what seemed to me like a very high level of dry grip for a UHP all season tire.

Thanks!

I still haven't reached a decision, it seems that for every person that had good experiences with them, there is one who didn't. I wonder if there is some variability in the QC process, which leads to some batches being "better" than others...

[ATG]

I've had a set of Yoko advan s.4 in stock size (18" staggered) for the last couple of weeks and I'm very happy so far. The car feels lighter, straightline stability and steering feel has increased, driving in the rain feels safer. I have not pushed the car to the limits though since the tires only have 300 miles on them. The car does feel a bit softer though (see ZSP tuning for RFT), but IMHO it handles better and feels more connected to the road. Also, there is NO tramlining with advan s.4. Plus, the tires look great.

[kevE90]

Originally Posted by ATG

I've had a set of Yoko advan s.4 in stock size (18" staggered) for the last couple of weeks and I'm very happy so far. The car feels lighter, straightline stability and steering feel has increased, driving in the rain feels safer. I have not pushed the car to the limits though since the tires only have 300 miles on them. The car does feel a bit softer though (see ZSP tuning for RFT), but IMHO it handles better and feels more connected to the road. Also, there is NO tramlining with advan s.4. Plus, the tires look great.

Good to hear . Glad someone finally has tested these out in stock staggered 18 sizes. Do keep us updated once you get some more miles on them and also when we get some snow.

[BMWDAD]

Consumers Reports has UHP all season reviews, and UHP summer tire reviews.

You will be surprised on their choices.

[deltron]

Originally Posted by adc

Goodyear F1 All Season? (These have CF reinforcements in the sidewalls).

I just got these tires installed on my 325xi today. I have the 156 (girlie) rims. Just from my joy ride today they felt pretty good. I can't really tell how different (or better) they are from the stock bridgetones when it comes to stickiness. They are very quiet though. My EL42's, with 16.5k miles, sounded like I was driving on tank treads.

When I autocrossed though those EL42 stuck pretty good. Unfortunately I don't plan on autocrossing again until the spring to really test them out. I really think the only way to test how "grippy" your tires are is to autocross or something, you really can't push any modern performance tire in normal street driving.

I did drive on this windy road and the F1 A/S felt really good. One or two slips in traction, but very much in control, and traction recovery was pretty good. I did take this one elevated ramp (20mph, quick right and quick left) at 50 mph and I felt like I was just gliding with ease. No tire noise at all.

My friend has F1 A/S's on his Audi A4 and he's been driving in the rain all week long and says they kicks ass on the wet pavement. Roundel recently did a review of this F1 A/S in this months edition and they basically said buy this tire. They compared it to some Bridgestone, PS A/S and Pirelli Nero M+S.

I was waiting for some trustworthy source (like Roundel) before I picked up these Goodyears since they are basically brand new on the market. So far I'm glad, but 50 miles isn't much to go by

[Orient330iNYC]

i tried the nero M&S on my S60R hoping to not have to switch between summer and winter tires. ended up switching to F1 GS-D3s for the summer and WinterSport M3s for winter.

-Very soft sidewalls on the nero M&S
-More grip in wet and dry than the stock P Zero Rosso's but much less than the F1GS-D3s
-mediocre snow traction. there are no sipes on the tread, the only bonus the M&S had over UHP summer tires was compound that didnt harden. treadwise, there was nothing to grip the snow unless the coating of snow was thin enough for the tire to dig through to pavement.

In NYC i could have probably gotten away with it, but decided 1400 for a dedicated set of tires to have the best tires for each season was worth it, at the very least it was very close to the deductible cost of a single fender bender.

[Orient330iNYC]

Originally Posted by deltron

I just got these tires installed on my 325xi today. I have the 156 (girlie) rims. Just from my joy ride today they felt pretty good. I can't really tell how different (or better) they are from the stock bridgetones when it comes to stickiness. They are very quiet though. My EL42's, with 16.5k miles, sounded like I was driving on tank treads.

When I autocrossed though those EL42 stuck pretty good. Unfortunately I don't plan on autocrossing again until the spring to really test them out. I really think the only way to test how "grippy" your tires are is to autocross or something, you really can't push any modern performance tire in normal street driving.

I did drive on this windy road and the F1 A/S felt really good. One or two slips in traction, but very much in control, and traction recovery was pretty good. I did take this one elevated ramp (20mph, quick right and quick left) at 50 mph and I felt like I was just gliding with ease. No tire noise at all.

My friend has F1 A/S's on his Audi A4 and he's been driving in the rain all week long and says they kicks ass on the wet pavement. Roundel recently did a review of this F1 A/S in this months edition and they basically said buy this tire. They compared it to some Bridgestone, PS A/S and Pirelli Nero M+S.

I was waiting for some trustworthy source (like Roundel) before I picked up these Goodyears since they are basically brand new on the market. So far I'm glad, but 50 miles isn't much to go by

grip will get better after 300-500 miles when the mold release wears off the tires.