[kjrulz]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

BUMP

we still need INDEPENDANT 2-3-4 gear datalogs from the following manufacturers FMICS:
-HPF
-AA
-RPI
-VK
-Stett
-ETS
-forge


please make sure the tests are done between 58-85 degree ambient temps and at a boost level of 13.5-14.5 psi so we can standardize the testing!

log boost, ait and rpm as well as ambient temp

Whomever has any of these intercoolers, get on this!

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

I just want to open peoples eyes as to the realities of the FMIC landscape and things to look for in regards to real data vs marketing hype... Interestingly enough i use a very good turbo outlet temp calculator that also generates a FMIC efficiency using data that is provided in this thread that answers your ?'s about starting and ending temps.

http://www.stealth316.com/2-turbotemp.htm

using this calculator with the provided data we can see how efficient each unit is in a real world situation and is all based in Physics Law(an exact science). heres the data i got using the calculator, feel free to try it yourself its actually very eye opening. When designing a FMIC I use this during prototyping to determine the best balance of internal fin density and charge row/ambient row height as we don't use an "off the shelf" core!

Turbo Outlet Temp Calculator

inlet temperature-(use the ambient temperature to standardize the test)

input pressure-14.5(atmospheric pressure this does not change unless you are at altitude)

output pressure-(this is the boost pressure seen prior to the fmic, add pressure drop plus datalogged pressure for this #)

compressor efficiency-70%(this can be found by mapping the #'s on a compressor map OR to datalog intercooler inlet temps, lets use 70% to standardize the testing as all are running similar boost levels)

Outlet Temp- (this is the temperature leaving the turbo and entering the FMIC)

Intercooler Outlet Temperature and Pressure Calculator

IC input Temperature-(this is the Outlet Temp from the previous calculation)

IC Efficiency-(This is the how efficient the FMIC is in this test, it is also the factor you play with to try and match up to the known plenum temp(ending datalogged ait at the end of the run))

IC Pressure loss-.5 (this is the pressure drop through the core, lets use .5 psi to standardize the test)

Ambient Temp-(this is the ambient temp and also the turbo inlet temp)

Plenum Temp-(this is the datalogged ait temp at the end of the 2-3-4 gear run)

now lets crunch the #'s...

HELIX-Intercooler Efficiency 86% through 3 gears
Turbo Outlet Temp Calculator
inlet temperature-85
input pressure-14.5
output pressure-14
compressor efficiency-70%
Outlet Temp- 249

Intercooler Outlet Temperature and Pressure Calculator
IC input Temperature-249
IC Pressure loss-.5
Ambient Temp-85
Plenum Temp-108
IC Efficiency-86%

ETS-Intercooler Efficiency 80% through 3 gears
Turbo Outlet Temp Calculator
inlet temperature-50
input pressure-14.5
output pressure-?
compressor efficiency-***using datalogged output temp***
Outlet Temp- 248 ***taken from datalog***

Intercooler Outlet Temperature and Pressure Calculator
IC input Temperature-248
IC Pressure loss-.5
Ambient Temp-50
Plenum Temp-91
IC Efficiency-80%

AMS-Intercooler Efficiency 79% through 3 gears
Turbo Outlet Temp Calculator
inlet temperature-58
input pressure-14.5
output pressure-14
compressor efficiency-70%
Outlet Temp- 214

Intercooler Outlet Temperature and Pressure Calculator
IC input Temperature-214
IC Pressure loss-.5
Ambient Temp-58
Plenum Temp-112
IC Efficiency-79%

SPEARCO/Code 3-Intercooler Efficiency 54% through 3 gears
Turbo Outlet Temp Calculator
inlet temperature-65
input pressure-14.5
output pressure-14
compressor efficiency-70%
Outlet Temp- 223

Intercooler Outlet Temperature and Pressure Calculator
IC input Temperature-223
IC Pressure loss-.5
Ambient Temp-65
Plenum Temp-139
IC Efficiency-54%

What this data shows is the efficency and also the FMICs ability to thwart heatsoak through 2-3-4 gears, you can also get single gear efficiencies using the data provided

[Kevin Harney]

curious to see HPF's. I am assuming the more efficient the better right ?

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Kevin Harney

curious to see HPF's. I am assuming the more efficient the better right ?

yes the final efficiency % is the FMICS ability to cool the charge as well as its ability to thwart heatsoak the higher the better!

[bulldog_yyc]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

yes the final efficiency % is the FMICS ability to cool the charge as well as its ability to thwart heatsoak the higher the better!

just wanted to state that I have been very happy with the helix FMIC. Car continues to pull like a freight train all the way through the gears, over and over again. Upgrading to an after market FMIC is a must do mod and I would recommend Helix, in terms of performance, service, fit/finish and value!

[Ajvar]

Ams our forge? please help me.. Im new at fmic question

[JoeyFiasco]

Originally Posted by Ajvar

Ams our forge? please help me.. Im new at fmic question

from the numbers provided looks like Helix is your best bet. ETS and AMS are pretty much tied.

[RevC]

the helix still outperforms all the units out there imho, and so local

[kjrulz]

datalogs from Forge seem to be in this review:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329764

and this

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=forge

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by Ajvar

Ams our forge? please help me.. Im new at fmic question

Since your new to the modding scene, I would go with Helix since there is no trimming involved from what I hear and the intercooler is very efficient...

[JoeyFiasco]

Bullet,

The Stett fmic claims 80% at 620hp. Is there any discernible way of guesstimaing what the efficiency would be at at 350-400hp?

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by JoeyFiasco

Bullet,

The Stett fmic claims 80% at 620hp. Is there any discernible way of guesstimaing what the efficiency would be at at 350-400hp?

80% of what? and what N54 engined car did they test it on that made 620hp?

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by kjrulz

datalogs from Forge seem to be in this review:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329764

and this

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=forge

thanks for the link, sucks that they tested the forge in 3-4-5 gear instead of 2-3-4. if anyone with a forge can do some datalogs wide open throttle in 2-3-4 gears at a boost pressure between 13-14.5 in 50-95 degree ambients that would be great, please log ait,boost and rpm and notate ambient temps as well.

we also need logs from:
aa
stett
hpf
rpi
vk

[Ajvar]

Thanks guys, Ar design has a nice combo deal thats why im considering the ams with the ar DP..

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by Ajvar

Thanks guys, Ar design has a nice combo deal thats why im considering the ams with the ar DP..

You are talking about the most expensive items in the market, hardly a deal even with discounts, when you can get good or better (FMIC) upgrades at less. But let's stay on topic, since we are interested to see the quality rather than discuss the prices.

[Ajvar]

sorry for the OT, can you help me out maybe? What should i go for???

[Syndicategt]

I havn't seen one posted, so here is an image of the anodized black Evolution Racewerks FMIC. Give's it a nice stealthy look

[JoeyFiasco]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

80% of what? and what N54 engined car did they test it on that made 620hp?

just regurgitating what's on the website..

[JoeyFiasco]

Originally Posted by Syndicategt

I havn't seen one posted, so here is an image of the anodized black Evolution Racewerks FMIC. Give's it a nice stealthy look

oohh.. that's pretty..

[Syndicategt]

Here's a shot with the CF shroud.

[335xiRT1]

I'm running the ETS FMIC, unable to post datlogs, but curious to know if these stats sound right...
did a 2-3-4 gear pull:
outside temp. is: 50degrees
15.5 avg. psi
the starting IAT temp was: 75
by the end of 4th gear IAT was: 105
what do you think??

[Tiago@VRSF]

This data can be manipulated pretty easily depending on what type of intake one may have.

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

I was not aiming that quote at anyone in particular, I just want to open peoples eyes as to the realities of the FMIC landscape and things to look for in regards to real data vs marketing hype... Interestingly enough i use a very good turbo outlet temp calculator that also generates a FMIC efficiency using data that is provided in this thread that answers your ?'s about starting and ending temps.

http://www.stealth316.com/2-turbotemp.htm

using this calculator with the provided data we can see how efficient each unit is in a real world situation and is all based in Physics Law(an exact science). heres the data i got using the calculator, feel free to try it yourself its actually very eye opening. When designing a FMIC I use this during prototyping to determine the best balance of internal fin density and charge row/ambient row height as we don't use an "off the shelf" core!

Turbo Outlet Temp Calculator

inlet temperature-(use the ambient temperature to standardize the test)

input pressure-14.5(atmospheric pressure this does not change unless you are at altitude)

output pressure-(this is the boost pressure seen prior to the fmic, add pressure drop plus datalogged pressure for this #)

compressor efficiency-70%(this can be found by mapping the #'s on a compressor map OR to datalog intercooler inlet temps, lets use 70% to standardize the testing as all are running similar boost levels)

Outlet Temp- (this is the temperature leaving the turbo and entering the FMIC)

Intercooler Outlet Temperature and Pressure Calculator

IC input Temperature-(this is the Outlet Temp from the previous calculation)

IC Efficiency-(This is the how efficient the FMIC is in this test, it is also the factor you play with to try and match up to the known plenum temp(ending datalogged ait at the end of the run))

IC Pressure loss-.5 (this is the pressure drop through the core, lets use .5 psi to standardize the test)

Ambient Temp-(this is the ambient temp and also the turbo inlet temp)

Plenum Temp-(this is the datalogged ait temp at the end of the 2-3-4 gear run)

now lets crunch the #'s...

HELIX-Intercooler Efficiency 86% through 3 gears
Turbo Outlet Temp Calculator
inlet temperature-85
input pressure-14.5
output pressure-14
compressor efficiency-70%
Outlet Temp- 249

Intercooler Outlet Temperature and Pressure Calculator
IC input Temperature-249
IC Pressure loss-.5
Ambient Temp-85
Plenum Temp-108
IC Efficiency-86%

ETS-Intercooler Efficiency 80% through 3 gears
Turbo Outlet Temp Calculator
inlet temperature-50
input pressure-14.5
output pressure-?
compressor efficiency-***using datalogged output temp***
Outlet Temp- 248 ***taken from datalog***

Intercooler Outlet Temperature and Pressure Calculator
IC input Temperature-248
IC Pressure loss-.5
Ambient Temp-50
Plenum Temp-91
IC Efficiency-80%

AMS-Intercooler Efficiency 79% through 3 gears
Turbo Outlet Temp Calculator
inlet temperature-58
input pressure-14.5
output pressure-14
compressor efficiency-70%
Outlet Temp- 214

Intercooler Outlet Temperature and Pressure Calculator
IC input Temperature-214
IC Pressure loss-.5
Ambient Temp-58
Plenum Temp-112
IC Efficiency-79%

SPEARCO/Code 3-Intercooler Efficiency 54% through 3 gears
Turbo Outlet Temp Calculator
inlet temperature-65
input pressure-14.5
output pressure-14
compressor efficiency-70%
Outlet Temp- 223

Intercooler Outlet Temperature and Pressure Calculator
IC input Temperature-223
IC Pressure loss-.5
Ambient Temp-65
Plenum Temp-139
IC Efficiency-54%

What this data shows is the efficency and also the FMICs ability to thwart heatsoak through 2-3-4 gears, you can also get single gear efficiencies using the data provided