[AWDBooSTIn90]

I wasnt going to start a new thread but im having an issue, that i just can NOT figure out...

I have no power to my interior (E92). No gauges, Gauges, Guage Cluster screen, and there's a constant "relay clicking" noise coming from the JBE area every 5 seconds or so. And currently this will kill the battery overnight, if i do not disconnect the battery after trying to diagnose the car for the day.

The battery is fairly new, was working perfectly before this, and has been voltage and load tested to be sure.

However, usually when i have an issue with a car, i dont know the cause. In this case i accidentally caused the problem

I was doing a CCC to CIC retrofit, i thought the battery was disconnected, but it was not. i was changing the CCC CID power connector to the newer style CIC power connector. i had the pins of the wires pulled from my old CID connector and the wires were able to touch each other for a few second, when i pulled them closer to push the pins into the new CIC CID Power Connector, before i was able to finally separate the wires from each other..

Now immediately after this happened, (wires touching together), the windshield wipers came on by themselves on full speed, and i could not control them with the steering wheel stalk, so i quickly found the wiper relay behind the glove box, in the fuse box and pulled the wiper relay. That stopped the wipers from going full speed on their own, whenever the battery was connected, key fob in/out & ignition on/off, had no effect.

Now im able to start the engine, but i have no idea whats going on with it bc i have a full non-working gauge cluster.. No RPM, Oil Temp, Check Engine Light, nothing. the whole HVAC controller is dead as well and does nothing.

i tried connectiong to the car to see what codes it might have and whatever i do, I CANNOT connect to my car anymore with INPA or Ista/D..

So far ive checked every single fuse in the interior fuse box, i checked that all the battery connections were good, and i checked and i do have +12v under the hood at the jump start block and i do have power to the fuse box.

I also tried to eleiminate the IBS as an issue so i disconnected the IBS data lead to the dme and the +12v connector. Checked the positive battery post, fuse block located on-top of the battery (Red plastic "Box" power distru-box with fuse-able links on top of the battery).

After all this, i figured maybe i ruined my JBE or Fuse Box, so i found a part-out car with basically the same specs as mine and swapped out the entire fuse box and the JBE bolted to it.. (My car is a 09/2006 Build Date car, so it has the early style Fuse Box which uses a direct stud style connection for the main power lead and is therefore not part of the Recall, most other E90/E92 335i's fall under that recall and almost have a similar issue that i have. But i have verified i have voltage at my fuses and the Main Power Connector to the JBE/JBBE/FUSE BOX.

Im beginning to believe that the K-can bus wires, for the CID power plug, touched the +12v/-12v power wires. Did i short out the Kcan bus and thats why i cant communicate with the car?

What does work:

Key-Fob Unlock Button will turn on interior lights, but not activate power locks
Power Windows, but only from the DS switch (LHD Car)
Sunroof opens normally
Dome and Map Lights
The old CCC HU when plugged in, i press the power button, and i get static from the FM radio being on..
So it seems the Audio System works fine. When CCC HU is out, i see the Red Light come on for the Fiber-Loop
I havent plugged in any of the new CIC parts, bc im afraid they could be damaged.
So no screen is installed right now to see what possible errors it will bring up (I can do this if someone feels like it will help) The CCC HU, CCC/CIC CID, Idrive Knob, and HVAC panel are disconnected to rule things out, no chages.
CID power connector still has power, no fuses blew.... (HOW IS THIS?)
The headlights work fine, including the interior lighting when headlights are on, button backlighting, etc
The Start Button does work and does change the BATTERY & IGNITION Black Dots in INPA
Engine starts, but seems to be in a limp mode


Noteable things that dont work:

PS Window Switch
Central Locking Button
Power Locks via key fob
Hazards/Turn Signal Stalk
HVAC
Gauge Cluster


Where do i start to diagnose this? Ive been looking into this for a month now. No one has ever seem to have the same issue as me. I also cant find any information on troubleshooting the K-can Bus. My car is pre -03/2007, so no D-Can, as far as i know at least.

I recently picked up a Bentley Manual, but havent had a chance to look thru it yet.

After doing some research, it seems like i have a short in the CANBUS somewhere or there is an error with the CANBUS system, or a module connected to the CANBUS shorted out internally or just went bad bc of the voltage spike...

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, because im not extremely familiar with this side of the car, but i am good with electronics and if anyone has anything i can test with a multimeter that would be great!

Thanks!

[jeddo45]

Subbed. Interested in what the culprit is.

Sorry I can't suggest anything but best of luck to you OP.

[AWDBooSTIn90]

What should the resistance be between the two wires for KCan High & KCan Low?

[AWDBooSTIn90]

Can anyone provide me with some wiring digrams for the car? specfically the kcan bus and the 30G Relay and Wake-Up Line system.

im really stumped here, idk what to do. i guess ill have to start uplugging modules one by one nd see if the problem changes...?

[opjose]

Search on ?windshield wipers always on? here.

There is a thread where others had similar problems and solved them.

Look for the Canbus troubleshooting link.

[AWDBooSTIn90]

Originally Posted by opjose

Search on ?windshield wipers always on? here.

There is a thread where others had similar problems and solved them.

Look for the Canbus troubleshooting link.

Ive sewrched for days and read anything that was on somehow possibly connected. Everyone's "fixes" ive checked and done. But i need to find something more in-depth on how it all works when the kcan bus is working and the key is pressed.

[ptpending]

download rheingold software, it is has wiring diagrams
but according the functions not working this is problem with JBE or it's CAN bus transceiver
testing using disconnecting ECU in a order is good idea
also it is may be you've damaged CAN transceivers in many ecu and you need to replace or repair all of them

[AWDBooSTIn90]

Originally Posted by ptpending

download rheingold software, it is has wiring diagrams
but according the functions not working this is problem with JBE or it's CAN bus transceiver
testing using disconnecting ECU in a order is good idea
also it is may be you've damaged CAN transceivers in many ecu and you need to replace or repair all of them

Yea according to BMW E90 Power Supply system, everything thats not working is controlled by the JBE. Most of what does work is being controlled by the FRM Module, DME, and the equipment on the fiber-optic MOST Loop.

Thays why i replaced the JBE. But the problem has not changed and i still cannot connect to the car in any way with INPA & Rheingold...

I haven't seen anywhereto view wiring diagram in the Rheingold program. How do you get to that section?

What is a CanBus transceiver and where are they located? Inside the ECU's?

[AWDBooSTIn90]

Im getting a steady 5VDC between K-Can H &
K-Can L.

What is considered normal for K-CAN voltage?

How much resistance should I have between K-CanH & K-CanL?

My meter is reading, no Resistance/open, between the K CAN-BUS Hi&Low Pair.

-----

Pulled battery out to charge and check condition of the pair of Wires running under the Car to the Under Hood Jumper Cable Block. No water. Wires and nuts still shiny chrome, no corrosion at all.
Took the BST Cable & B+ Wire off from the Electrical Bulkheads and visually checked them and checked them with my meter. Charged battery overnight. Its fine. Im getting 12.5VDC everywhere I need power.
-JBE Fuse Box Lead
-Both Under hood Positive Cables (B & B+?)
-Fuses in DME Box

All Good!

DS power window switch works, but the window will only travel about 3-4 inches at a time, and then just stops. I have to psychically let go of the button and press it again, several times if i want to completely open or close it.

Bad Modules has been mentioned so i started on that task. Disconnecting each one and see if there's a noticeable difference. What modules do you guy's suggest i check?. That way i can maybe make a list or something and just get a better idea of what im doing right away..

So far i disconnected the small plug on the FRM module, its the plug closest to me, while it's still installed in the car. So when i turned the ignition ON, it realized it had no Comm with the FRM, bc the
K-Can wires were in the connector i pulled out, the headlights turned on immediately. No other noticeable changes.

------
Im still having the same issue with no gauge cluster, random interior parts dont work, weird things, and the constant click, which deff sounds and feels like a Relay, every 7 secs or so.. Coming from I thinkk the JBE. But the JB Fuse Box also has some internal relays and it hards to tell exactly all installed..

[PichaDis11]

Have you tried using Tool32 reset the JBE? Since the JBE is the Gateway for BUS and CAN network getting that to work seems to be the main point to get things going.

Do go over your wiring to make sure wires are all in place and not still making love to each other.

[AWDBooSTIn90]

Originally Posted by PichaDis11

Have you tried using Tool32 reset the JBE? Since the JBE is the Gateway for BUS and CAN network getting that to work seems to be the main point to get things going.

Do go over your wiring to make sure wires are all in place and not still making love to each other.

Checked all the wires. Only wires that were removed at all, were the 4 wires for the CID Plug. They are now in a new CIC Power Connector. I did all the other wiring for the I-drive Retrofit a few years ago and all wires are terminated in the oem connectors following Booster's Guide.

How do I reset the JBE with Tool32? Ive had Tool32 forever but never really had a use for it..

[ptpending]

you can check this
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/at...hmentid=483789

[luv2xlr8_1989]

Hey,

Sorry to bump up an old thread. I've recently bought a waterdamaged '06 325xi and I'm having the same symptoms you we're having. Have you ever ended up resolving your issues?

[PichaDis11]

Originally Posted by luv2xlr8_1989

Hey,

Sorry to bump up an old thread. I've recently bought a waterdamaged '06 325xi and I'm having the same symptoms you we're having. Have you ever ended up resolving your issues?

I believe he solved the issue with a replacement JBE module.

For a water damaged car, I'd spray electrical contact cleaner to as many connections in the junction box area and give it a shot.

[echinite]

What was your fix I have the same exact problem?

[Jellepepe]

Since the OP never shared the solution and this is the first (and seemingly only) post I could find with the exact issue we experienced with a car recently, I will share my experience and solution for those who run into this issue in the future.

It is a shame the OP never shared how he resolved the issue, from looking through his history I expect he either got the wrong JBE replacement module or somehow installed it incorrectly.
Below our experience with the same exact issue, and the solution:

This issue is caused by shorting the +12v and GND wires on the CID connector, due to some very strange decisions in the design process this connection is wholly unfused and leads directly into the board of the JBE (black module on the fusebox, also called JBBF).
Shorting these wires while the car is powered, even for a split second, has a very high chance of frying the JBBF.

Symptoms are mostly described in the original post.
The JBE acts as the gateway between the PT-CAN, K-CAN, F-CAN, and OBD port.
Additionally it controls or powers the following:

• power windows
• central locking actuators
• wipers
• headlight/windscreen washers
• heated rear window
• climate control panel + aircon + seat heating
• cluster + fuel level sensor + coolant level + washer fluid level + parking
• brake switch
• dsc/locking button on the dash
• electric rear sunblind
• idrive cid + con (duh)

Some of these (such as the wipers and washers) will go into an 'oh shit' mode which results in them being on all the time, others will be fully disabled or constantly powercycle.

The main problem with diagnosing this issue is that there is usually no connection with the car possible at all, as the JBBF acts as the gateway between the obd port and the rest of the car.

Solution:

1. Unplug the battery if you haven't already (running a broken JBE could break other modules in your car!)
2. Remove the passenger footwell cover (2x T20)
3. (If you have them) Remove the trim surrounding the cupholders and remove the cupholders (these hold in the glovebox) (4x T20)
4. Remove the glovebox (6xT20)
5. Remove the JBBF module, there are 2 connectors and 2 screws in the front, you can then gently pull it our partly and remove the remaining connector on the back of the module, take note of the 4th connector which slides into the fusebox
6. Identify the JBBF module using below & source a replacement
7. Install the new JBBF module using the previous steps in reverse
8. Reconnect battery
9. Verify connection with inpa/ista/ncs, default code the JBBF module to your VO & write your VIN with tool32
10. Clear all error codes & check for any returning codes (some other module or unit may have been affected by the issue)

To find a JBBF module that matches your car, both in version and label:
There are 3 versions:
1. PL2 JBBF
2. PL2 JBBF II
3. PL2 JBBF IIIR
There are multiple labels, in order:
L1, L2, L3, H1, H2, H3, H4
And the additional 'master versions': (only available for JBBF 3)
M, or KL

Best option is to get the same as your car currently has, if you cannot find it, you should be able to get a higher label (but same version) as well:
e.g. you have a PL2 JBBF H1, a PL2 JBBF H4 should also work.
Take note that the position of the blue and black connectors must always match the original unit, this indicates the module is K-Line or D-Can, and switching units would require additional wiring.

[magamagapty]

I really appreciate you following up on this as this happened to me as I was about to convert my CIC to and android screen to get carplay and all the other good stuff.

Originally Posted by Jellepepe

Since the OP never shared the solution and this is the first (and seemingly only) post I could find with the exact issue we experienced with a car recently, I will share my experience and solution for those who run into this issue in the future.

It is a shame the OP never shared how he resolved the issue, from looking through his history I expect he either got the wrong JBE replacement module or somehow installed it incorrectly.
Below our experience with the same exact issue, and the solution:

This issue is caused by shorting the +12v and GND wires on the CID connector, due to some very strange decisions in the design process this connection is wholly unfused and leads directly into the board of the JBE (black module on the fusebox, also called JBBF).
Shorting these wires while the car is powered, even for a split second, has a very high chance of frying the JBBF.

Symptoms are mostly described in the original post.
The JBE acts as the gateway between the PT-CAN, K-CAN, F-CAN, and OBD port.
Additionally it controls or powers the following:

• power windows
• central locking actuators
• wipers
• headlight/windscreen washers
• heated rear window
• climate control panel + aircon + seat heating
• cluster + fuel level sensor + coolant level + washer fluid level + parking
• brake switch
• dsc/locking button on the dash
• electric rear sunblind
• idrive cid + con (duh)

Some of these (such as the wipers and washers) will go into an 'oh shit' mode which results in them being on all the time, others will be fully disabled or constantly powercycle.

The main problem with diagnosing this issue is that there is usually no connection with the car possible at all, as the JBBF acts as the gateway between the obd port and the rest of the car.

Solution:

1. Unplug the battery if you haven't already (running a broken JBE could break other modules in your car!)
2. Remove the passenger footwell cover (2x T20)
3. (If you have them) Remove the trim surrounding the cupholders and remove the cupholders (these hold in the glovebox) (4x T20)
4. Remove the glovebox (6xT20)
5. Remove the JBBF module, there are 2 connectors and 2 screws in the front, you can then gently pull it our partly and remove the remaining connector on the back of the module, take note of the 4th connector which slides into the fusebox
6. Identify the JBBF module using below & source a replacement
7. Install the new JBBF module using the previous steps in reverse
8. Reconnect battery
9. Verify connection with inpa/ista/ncs, default code the JBBF module to your VO & write your VIN with tool32
10. Clear all error codes & check for any returning codes (some other module or unit may have been affected by the issue)

To find a JBBF module that matches your car, both in version and label:
There are 3 versions:
1. PL2 JBBF
2. PL2 JBBF II
3. PL2 JBBF IIIR
There are multiple labels, in order:
L1, L2, L3, H1, H2, H3, H4
And the additional 'master versions': (only available for JBBF 3)
M, or KL

Best option is to get the same as your car currently has, if you cannot find it, you should be able to get a higher label (but same version) as well:
e.g. you have a PL2 JBBF H1, a PL2 JBBF H4 should also work.
Take note that the position of the blue and black connectors must always match the original unit, this indicates the module is K-Line or D-Can, and switching units would require additional wiring.

[Luper52]

Originally Posted by magamagapty

I really appreciate you following up on this as this happened to me as I was about to convert my CIC to and android screen to get carplay and all the other good stuff.

So did this end up fixing your issue? I discovered this issue also by trying to add Carplay to my CIC system. Disconnecting the LVDS cable triggers all sorts of electrical problems. Reconnect it and it's fine.


EDIT: Yep sure enough a new JBBF module worked for me. I had a PL2 JBBF H1, and replaced it with an E87 PL2 JBBF H2 and also re-insulated my LVDS wiring to make sure it definitely wasn't shorting to itself. My android head unit works perfectly. Thanks for this post!

[AWDBooSTIn90]

The main reason i didn't post a solution was because i couldn't actually verify if changing my JBBF & JBE was the fix, because that didn't immediately fix the problem. It was the same.

But after doing some coding and VO reset coding to the car i was able to get everything back up and running as i went and plugged more modules in until they were all plugged back in.

I didnt want to spread wrong information. Plus information about this like you posted, i had found from looking over wiring diagrams and posts for hours. But there was still some things i wasn't sure about.

So it seems like the issue was a bad JBE, but the bad JBE also killed my battery. So i wasn't sure if that had something to do with it.

Plus one thing i still have an issue with because i haven't really cared enough to risk it really. Is that i have the fuse for the Heated Rear Defroster & Windshield Washer Pump still out.
(BC i put each fuse back in one by one and tested each one for shorts when re-installing, found that low resistance to ground for that Fuse location and left it out. Never got back to researching it)..

Theyre on the same circuit. The relay for rear Defroster works properly. It goes on & off with the HVAC panel. And if i pull the windshield washer, it does trigger the wipers to come on.
But when i put my meter on the load side of the fuse, im getting basically like only 5ohms.
I know its going to the Rear Defroster which is technically a shorted circuit in a way.
But i would of assumed to have seen like 500ohms on that instead. So im hesitant to put a fuse in the slot of the JBBF.

Other than that the car has been solid since then.

And yeah the way the power to the CID screen is ran without a fuse is just crazy. That's what really made me think i had shorted/melted some wires but no it didnt. I think actually that the JBE went into some sort of safety mode.

I still have the original JBE/JBBF. I was always curious if the JBE actually went bad.

I opened the JBBF and besides some internal relays that are not replaceable without soldering, its very simple. And mine tested fine later on when i checked it..

[AWDBooSTIn90]

Originally Posted by Luper52

So did this end up fixing your issue? I discovered this issue also by trying to add Carplay to my CIC system. Disconnecting the LVDS cable triggers all sorts of electrical problems. Reconnect it and it's fine.


EDIT: Yep sure enough a new JBBF module worked for me. I had a PL2 JBBF H1, and replaced it with an E87 PL2 JBBF H2 and also re-insulated my LVDS wiring to make sure it definitely wasn't shorting to itself. My android head unit works perfectly. Thanks for this post!

The LVDS is the video cable. As far as i know its just a digital video signal.

Im looking into going to the Android Head unit eventually from the CIC. Just seems better than doing NBT.

So im just curious as to what happened and what made you change your JBE? Did you short the wires for the power or was the LVDS cable causing the issues?

You're able to run a new cable right next to the old one and you'll just have to leave the old cable in there but that's not a big deal really..

[Luper52]

Originally Posted by AWDBooSTIn90

The LVDS is the video cable. As far as i know its just a digital video signal.

Im looking into going to the Android Head unit eventually from the CIC. Just seems better than doing NBT.

So im just curious as to what happened and what made you change your JBE? Did you short the wires for the power or was the LVDS cable causing the issues?

You're able to run a new cable right next to the old one and you'll just have to leave the old cable in there but that's not a big deal really..

It was for the power, so not the LVDS cable. They were frayed on the outside of the connector so that could have been what was shorting them, but it worked fine if plugged into the old screen. Without it being plugged in to anything the windshield wipers would turn on endlessly, the window regulator control stopped working in some of the windows, door locks would lock every x seconds, the headlights stayed on no matter what, and the sunroof was unusable I believe. Basically whatever was being controlled by the JBE wasn't working, kept activating, or was on endlessly. Plugging it back in fixed all problems and the car was fine.

I ended up using electrical tape to make sure those wires in the CIC screen power connector weren't touching, and replaced the JBE. Made sure to work on the car with the battery disconnected until fully installed, and worked like a dream, all systems performed normally.


Yeah NBT is just too expensive still for what you're getting. Throw in an android screen and call it a day. Touch functionality is great, although it doesn't work in OEM menus. CarPlay is a little finicky with aftermarket adapters but I'll try out the integrated one as soon as I get an AutoLink license code.

[AWDBooSTIn90]

Originally Posted by Luper52

It was for the power, so not the LVDS cable. They were frayed on the outside of the connector so that could have been what was shorting them, but it worked fine if plugged into the old screen. Without it being plugged in to anything the windshield wipers would turn on endlessly, the window regulator control stopped working in some of the windows, door locks would lock every x seconds, the headlights stayed on no matter what, and the sunroof was unusable I believe. Basically whatever was being controlled by the JBE wasn't working, kept activating, or was on endlessly. Plugging it back in fixed all problems and the car was fine.

I ended up using electrical tape to make sure those wires in the CIC screen power connector weren't touching, and replaced the JBE. Made sure to work on the car with the battery disconnected until fully installed, and worked like a dream, all systems performed normally.


Yeah NBT is just too expensive still for what you're getting. Throw in an android screen and call it a day. Touch functionality is great, although it doesn't work in OEM menus. CarPlay is a little finicky with aftermarket adapters but I'll try out the integrated one as soon as I get an AutoLink license code.

Nice to hear you got it all working again. Do you have a link to the Android HU screen you went with? There seems to be so many different but similar versions of it available now..