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      11-29-2016, 11:01 AM   #1
Mark M
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95 PSI DPF pressure even with ABC Delete....

So now that I got you in here reading....let me explain.

My car has a full ABC delete after a failed attempt at running an emissions compliant tune (saga began a year ago and not the purpose of this note). As a result my DPF clogged up.

The car is now properly tuned for a ABC delete, the DPF differential pressure sensor has been disconnected and removed. Yet the DDE is still reporting a static 95 psi DPF pressure when monitor the cars parameters. It behaved the same previously when the sensor was connected but hoses routed in a U.

This seems odd. When such high pressures are measured such as when my DPF clogged, does the DDE record this as a hard fault of some kind? Using Carly, I have zero stored codes. If so, does this have any impact on the cars operating conditions? Could the DDE still hunt for mommy and try to perform a regen with this parameter set?
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      11-29-2016, 11:21 AM   #2
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I am far from an expert but let me take some guesses. I have a BPC II+ tune. My hoses are just there; I assume the installer of my downpipe just loosely tied them up like my asked. I suspect BPC tunes out the regen cycle and ignores the data coming from the differential pressure sensor.

Does your car run like it's supposed to?
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      11-29-2016, 02:02 PM   #3
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I bet the value of that sensor is simply ignored. Will be happy to check my values when I get back from holidays. For example, I recall Post SCR NOx value is reported as a constant 2000ppm. I've sent my DDE for an update. Some values may be different.
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      11-29-2016, 03:10 PM   #4
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Mark, what is the Carly parameter you need us to look at. I have a list of the 52 that Carly can pull. There are 2 that look to do this
1) differential pressure measured by the particulate filter
2) differential pressure of the particulate

I've been running with the black tubes hanging down and not even the U pipe between them for 1.5 yr. The ecotune pipe did have the pressure tubes and I ran with black tubes connected up until middle of 2015. After that, the tubes were cut off and the nubs welded over.

I'm now running a gutted DPF with same tubes cut off and welded over. So, my data is likely going to just say 0 differential.
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      11-29-2016, 03:29 PM   #5
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I am using the PID parameter below that DWR has graciously supplied us a while back.

0-0 BMW 335d DPF Pressure,DPF Press,17A,((B*256)+C)*0.00146959,0,5,psi,Auto

My uneducated theory, is that when the DPF clogged up, it somehow set a permanent fault which is storing this very high value. Even after ABC delete, this PID is reporting the same thing with or without the sensor hooked up. Yet I have 'No Codes'.
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      11-29-2016, 04:16 PM   #6
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Okay. I'm not doing those PID that DWR offers. I'm running Carly for BMW app. I thought these PID were for Torque. I'm a newb when it comes to this data stuff though so I could be full of s***.
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      11-29-2016, 05:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yozh View Post
I bet the value of that sensor is simply ignored. Will be happy to check my values when I get back from holidays. For example, I recall Post SCR NOx value is reported as a constant 2000ppm. I've sent my DDE for an update. Some values may be different.
So I never mentioned this because I didn't think it was necessary, but my completely stock 335D also reads a constant 2000PPM Post SCR NOx. I believe it does the same for Pre-SCR NOx as well. Is this an issue? My car runs just fine, and the check engine light is only on due to my EGR block.
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      11-29-2016, 05:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqu3 View Post
So I never mentioned this because I didn't think it was necessary, but my completely stock 335D also reads a constant 2000PPM Post SCR NOx. I believe it does the same for Pre-SCR NOx as well. Is this an issue? My car runs just fine, and the check engine light is only on due to my EGR block.
Under DWR's PID parameters, my ABC deleted car read 2000PPM pre and post. Prior to the full delete I was seeing pre and post around -97.xx to -99.xx with DWR PIDs.
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      11-29-2016, 05:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
Under DWR's PID parameters, my ABC deleted car read 2000PPM pre and post. Prior to the full delete I was seeing pre and post around -97.xx to -99.xx with DWR PIDs.
So I've seen all of those numbers. Most of the time it shows 2000ppm, but after some time driving it will go to -97 and -99 -ish. I guess everything is right with the world.
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      11-29-2016, 06:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
...
The car is now properly tuned for a ABC delete, the DPF differential pressure sensor has been disconnected and removed. Yet the DDE is still reporting a static 95 psi DPF pressure when monitor the cars parameters. It behaved the same previously when the sensor was connected but hoses routed in a U.
...
If you look at my first post in this thread, there's a link to a document on differential pressure sensors. Also put a picture of a differential pressure sensor voltage output versus pressure.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19151674

The sensor output signal should increase as pressure increases. 95 psi has got to be full scale... If you see the same 95 psi PID value with or without the sensor, I'd guess your sensor is bad, or the connection was bad, or the DDE interface to that sensor was bad.

To check the sensor, one thing you can do is blow/suck on one of the tubes to the sensor and monitor what happens on DWR's Torque PID to see if/how the reading changes. I did this to determine the polarity of which tube was the positive pressure inlet. Make sure your wife doesn't walk into the garage while you're doing this, or you will get some interesting questions...
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      11-29-2016, 06:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yozh View Post
I bet the value of that sensor is simply ignored. Will be happy to check my values when I get back from holidays. For example, I recall Post SCR NOx value is reported as a constant 2000ppm. I've sent my DDE for an update. Some values may be different.
You getting the new "tune" from Jarek?
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      11-29-2016, 06:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
If you look at my first post in this thread, there's a link to a document on differential pressure sensors. Also put a picture of a differential pressure sensor voltage output versus pressure.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19151674

The sensor output signal should increase as pressure increases. 95 psi has got to be full scale... If you see the same 95 psi PID value with or without the sensor, I'd guess your sensor is bad, or the connection was bad, or the DDE interface to that sensor was bad.

To check the sensor, one thing you can do is blow/suck on one of the tubes to the sensor and monitor what happens on DWR's Torque PID to see if/how the reading changes. I did this to determine the polarity of which tube was the positive pressure inlet. Make sure your wife doesn't walk into the garage while you're doing this, or you will get some interesting questions...
"What kind of data geek thing are you doing now?"
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      11-29-2016, 09:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_cuda View Post
"What kind of data geek thing are you doing now?"
:-)

More like, "What are you doing with that hose in your mouth?"
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      11-30-2016, 03:10 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreekboyD View Post
You getting the new "tune" from Jarek?
Yes sir. Time for an update. And makes it easy when I do not need my car while on holidays.
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      11-30-2016, 03:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
To check the sensor, one thing you can do is blow/suck on one of the tubes to the sensor and monitor what happens on DWR's Torque PID to see if/how the reading changes. I did this to determine the polarity of which tube was the positive pressure inlet. Make sure your wife doesn't walk into the garage while you're doing this, or you will get some interesting questions...
Here is the question. Does the differential sensor still work even with a tune?
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      11-30-2016, 08:09 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yozh View Post
Here is the question. Does the differential sensor still work even with a tune?
The sensor still works on all the versions of Jarek's remaps I've used on my car (I still use its sensor data to calculate mass air flow within a custom Torque PID). However, it doesn't appear the sensor data impacts any operating behavior.
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      11-30-2016, 09:51 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Yozh View Post
Yes sir. Time for an update. And makes it easy when I do not need my car while on holidays.
Sweet. Eagerly await your full review.
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      11-30-2016, 10:53 AM   #18
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I had the dpf pressure sensor on my car for a couple of months. Then one day just took it off. I never noticed a difference. Is there one? I don't log much at all so I never checked. I thought it was a null sensor post tune . Is it true that Jarek has an updated tune with more HP/tq?
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      11-30-2016, 11:10 AM   #19
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Thank you TDI and all who have provided comments.

TDI's explanation was quite helpful including his attached link detailing the experience using the Diff pressure sensor as a tool for measuring intake air flow. Great article, informative and full of very cool data methodology (even if it is over my head).

So interpreting this as it relates to my findings, it sounds like the cars default behavior is to report 95psi in the absence of sensor values to show otherwise. It also sounds like this should not affect the running of the car as TDI has used this sensor for other methods with no ill effect on performance / tune.

The reason I had asked to begin with, on my car, it seems like once every 500 or 600 miles the car begins to feel laggy and fuel consumption increases. My layman's theory was that perhaps the DDE saw the 95psi and was trying to initiate a periodic regen even though I have full delete. This past instance the laggy feeling began immediately after a tank refill and lasted ~100 miles.
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      12-01-2016, 02:37 PM   #20
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I too use DWR's custom PIDs for Torque Pro, however, my car has full emissions gear still intact. My DPF Pressure reading vacillates between reasonable/plausible values and 95 PSI while driving. Interestingly the frequency it pegs to 95 seems to change with ambient temperature (pegging almost 50% of the time when greater than 60*F and 20% of the time when colder).

At any rate, this behavior has not triggered any SES codes or shadow codes, although I suspect it may be contributing to shorter DPF regeneration cycles.

I have a replacement but I failed to get the old one out in my first attempt (big hands in a small area), need to try again but not looking forward to it.

Last edited by 335dwanted; 12-01-2016 at 02:39 PM. Reason: type
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      12-01-2016, 02:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yozh View Post
Here is the question. Does the differential sensor still work even with a tune?
I can share what happened to me (could be irrelevant lol) - I got the Jarek's tune on Fri and got exhaust replacement done the following Monday, and the car kept throwing check engine light on the weekend, went back to Jarek, he found diff presssure sensor not plugged in, plugged it in & no more CEL - so I believe even after the tune the system's reading that thing ... haha I could be off
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      12-01-2016, 05:51 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007_e350 View Post
I can share what happened to me (could be irrelevant lol) - I got the Jarek's tune on Fri and got exhaust replacement done the following Monday, and the car kept throwing check engine light on the weekend, went back to Jarek, he found diff presssure sensor not plugged in, plugged it in & no more CEL - so I believe even after the tune the system's reading that thing ... haha I could be off
I have a JR too, but my diff pressure sensor is completely unplugged. Heck, it's not even on the car. And I do not have any error codes.
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