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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > UK > Bring Your Own Parts - BYOP - Enthusiast's dream or rude and unforgivable?



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      02-05-2016, 07:25 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by raptor_f22 View Post
Gonna throw this one out here... I personally try my hardest to get the best parts I can afford. That usually means going to ECP, yes. Owning a car like a 330d isn't cheap i'm aware but I don't have a bottomless bank account either so have to strike a balance.

However, ECP do sell some great branded parts (as far as I'm aware) i.e. i'm speccing up some Brembo parts at the moment. For normal road driving surely Brembo parts are fine? Same goes with Pagid, Mann, Textar and Bosch etc.

I'm not debating how they match up with parts bought directly from BMW but i'm sceptical that for the price difference, the majority of normal road drivers will ever notice a drastic performance difference.

And i'll go back to my original statement. I've seen plenty of mechanics including big name garages scoff at the mention of Andrew Page and ECP "hahaha that pagid shite? wouldn't touch it with a barge pole! cheap rubbish" only for the customer to disappear and low and behold...pagid parts are fitted. GSF also have a wide variety of suppliers, most of which are unheard of but GSF are used regularly by garages claiming to use "only" OEM parts.

I do agree with some of the comments on here, the parts network seems like a con at times. Won't go through the boring details but I've priced up a near enough identical list of parts which I need to buy, and after applying all relevant discounts the figures I get are:

£453 - Buying directly from ECP
£415 - Buying directly from Carparts4less (ECP's online only company)
£625 - Buying directly from GSF

So quite a big difference! I'm in contact with an Indy at the moment to see what price they come back with + their labour charge.
There isn't a problem per se with using ECP. It's a rip off when a garage stick loads of margin on the products that aren't that good and their retail price reflects that. There are also better alternatives and cheaper alternatives to ECP often too.

Take a look at control arms for E9x on ECP. £90 a pop! A savvy buyer knows that TRW arms are the OEM arms and can be had for half that price and then some.

As for brakes, £170 odd gets you a full set of Bosch front discs/pads (348mm) which can't be much more than ECP prices. The pagids are particularly poorly reviewed on here due to warping, scoring issues.

With regards to spark plugs though, you're never going to beat ECP at £50-ish for a set of 6!

ECP is a business and they do have some great deals, but on some things there are better alternatives.

What are you buying that costs £400?
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      02-05-2016, 09:43 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by djgandy View Post
There isn't a problem per se with using ECP. It's a rip off when a garage stick loads of margin on the products that aren't that good and their retail price reflects that. There are also better alternatives and cheaper alternatives to ECP often too.

Take a look at control arms for E9x on ECP. £90 a pop! A savvy buyer knows that TRW arms are the OEM arms and can be had for half that price and then some.

As for brakes, £170 odd gets you a full set of Bosch front discs/pads (348mm) which can't be much more than ECP prices. The pagids are particularly poorly reviewed on here due to warping, scoring issues.

With regards to spark plugs though, you're never going to beat ECP at £50-ish for a set of 6!

ECP is a business and they do have some great deals, but on some things there are better alternatives.

What are you buying that costs £400?
That's interesting, where would you buy the control arms from then?

I'm buying: Front discs and pads, Castrol 0W-30 oil, oil filter, air filter, pollen filter, fuel filter, 6 x glow plugs, 2 x rear shocks. Plus I need to budget for glow plug relay and brake pad wear sensor I think.

For peace of mind I want to do a major service as previous owner's serv history shows not the best quality stuff used and last service was just oil change. No evidence of fuel filter replacement. Rear shocks need replacing. Discs are warped (pagid I suspect!).

Nothing wrong with glow plugs that i know of - in that there's no warning lights and I don't have an OBD readout but again for peace of mind I'd like to replace them as the cars done 164,000 and no evidence of it in the service history.
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      02-05-2016, 10:12 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by raptor_f22 View Post
That's interesting, where would you buy the control arms from then?

I'm buying: Front discs and pads, Castrol 0W-30 oil, oil filter, air filter, pollen filter, fuel filter, 6 x glow plugs, 2 x rear shocks. Plus I need to budget for glow plug relay and brake pad wear sensor I think.

For peace of mind I want to do a major service as previous owner's serv history shows not the best quality stuff used and last service was just oil change. No evidence of fuel filter replacement. Rear shocks need replacing. Discs are warped (pagid I suspect!).

Nothing wrong with glow plugs that i know of - in that there's no warning lights and I don't have an OBD readout but again for peace of mind I'd like to replace them as the cars done 164,000 and no evidence of it in the service history.
Amazon of all places can be very cheap for stuff at times. Sourcing from Germany is often cheaper too for a lot of stuff.

Mister-auto is pretty good for disc/pad choice - https://www.mister-auto.co.uk/
Bosch pads + discs = £173. Sign up, stick em in your basket, you'll probably get a code for discount too.

If you don't need stuff immediately you can get better parts for the same money. If you need it all within 24 hours, ECP is usually the only reliable choice.

£415 for all that lot isn't bad. You can probably shave a few more £££ off it shopping around, but not much. Better though is to keep to that budget and try and ensure you get the highest quality parts.

For what you are buying though ECP is probably the best. Filters, plugs are generally of decent quality and I their shocks are competitive on price. Just be careful on the brakes. I nearly went down the Bosch route, but after a chat with old grey steve I sourced BMW genuine front discs and pads and sensor from Germany for £280. An extra £100 but considering the discs last 80,000 miles, probably worth it.
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      02-05-2016, 11:22 AM   #26
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For genuine bmw parts use leebman24.de. Very hard to beat on price.
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      02-05-2016, 03:00 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by AWSAWS View Post
I drive about 2hrs (4hr round trip) to Darren Wood in Stockport OP. If you find someone reliable and knowledgeable then it's worth travelling further than you'd like to.
I use Darren but his parts can be expensive he's about to charge me £90 +vat for a glow plug relay that I could get for £45 Inc delivery. In future I will be supplying my own parts. He's a top indy though.
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      02-06-2016, 05:15 AM   #28
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There is another reason they don't like you bringing your open parts because if the additional profit they make on the part.

Part cost £45, charged to you at £90 + £90 fitting. Total invoice for £180. They make £135.

You bring your own part, they only invoice for the £90.

That's generally why you won't see most chains allow you to bring your own parts. They supplement profit based in parts.
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      02-06-2016, 04:38 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Paul D3 View Post
There is another reason they don't like you bringing your open parts because if the additional profit they make on the part.

Part cost £45, charged to you at £90 + £90 fitting. Total invoice for £180. They make £135.

You bring your own part, they only invoice for the £90.

That's generally why you won't see most chains allow you to bring your own parts. They supplement profit based in parts.
To a degree you are righr on parts there is a profit to be made.... different establishments will havea different take on this but yes you can make profit on parts, but there's another side to the story as well something that as customers isn't always taken into consideration.

I'll paint a picture sometimes there can be issues re parts being supplied by customers, though we as an establishment don't have any issues whatsoever as I stated earlier on re any customer supplying their own parts if there were an issue that arises from a defective part who's going to pay the labour to remove that defective part supplied by the customer and replace it, plus as the cars in the air at the garage how quickly is the issue going to be resloved?

Take brakes for instance if say we have an issue re discs or pads we supplied then we would seek replacements from the supplier we obtained the parts from get them removed and replaced and under the parts suppliers warranty T's & C's seek the lost labour costs we incure as well from them, meaning quite rightly the customer is fully covered financially for the replacement parts and the labour, which is quite rightly what anyone would expect, had the brakes been supplied from BMW derect and the part were at fault under their warranty procedure the cars booked in direct with the main dealer, if the parts found to be an issue (we always check before booking the car in BMW deal with everything in house as its done at the dealer under the warranty umbrella.

But if a customer were to supply their own brakes then it will fall back on the customer to get the required replacments sorted and the supplier may not willingly supply a repalcemnt part "under warranty terms" until it was proven to be the case that the part and not the fitting of the part was the cause of the issue, which is a grey area a lot of company's like Euro's, GSF are now starting to get hot on warranty related returns due to the amount they get back that are later inspected and found not to be at fault.

If a garage has honoured the contract to fit the parts supplied by the customer, if the parts were fitted correctly then the garage concerned has done what has been asked of them by the customer as that was how the contract was undertaken.

Therefore and its down to the good grace of the garage concerned how the above event of a custome supplying their own parts pans out.

Situations like the example above is something that sadly gets over looked as its felt garages supplying parts do it to make profit and profit only..... some may go down this route but some like us look at it from a different angle
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      02-07-2016, 03:29 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by stampylove View Post
I use Darren but his parts can be expensive he's about to charge me £90 +vat for a glow plug relay that I could get for £45 Inc delivery. In future I will be supplying my own parts. He's a top indy though.
Why havent you called him out on it then?

A 10 or 20% margin added to a part to cover costs involved with sourcing the part, fine. A 100% markup is taking the piss, and means he isnt a "top indy" hes ripping you off. If hes doing it with that part, hes doing it with everything.
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      02-07-2016, 04:19 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by old grey steve View Post
To a degree you are righr on parts there is a profit to be made.... different establishments will havea different take on this but yes you can make profit on parts, but there's another side to the story as well something that as customers isn't always taken into consideration.

I'll paint a picture sometimes there can be issues re parts being supplied by customers, though we as an establishment don't have any issues whatsoever as I stated earlier on re any customer supplying their own parts if there were an issue that arises from a defective part who's going to pay the labour to remove that defective part supplied by the customer and replace it, plus as the cars in the air at the garage how quickly is the issue going to be resloved?

Take brakes for instance if say we have an issue re discs or pads we supplied then we would seek replacements from the supplier we obtained the parts from get them removed and replaced and under the parts suppliers warranty T's & C's seek the lost labour costs we incure as well from them, meaning quite rightly the customer is fully covered financially for the replacement parts and the labour, which is quite rightly what anyone would expect, had the brakes been supplied from BMW derect and the part were at fault under their warranty procedure the cars booked in direct with the main dealer, if the parts found to be an issue (we always check before booking the car in BMW deal with everything in house as its done at the dealer under the warranty umbrella.

But if a customer were to supply their own brakes then it will fall back on the customer to get the required replacments sorted and the supplier may not willingly supply a repalcemnt part "under warranty terms" until it was proven to be the case that the part and not the fitting of the part was the cause of the issue, which is a grey area a lot of company's like Euro's, GSF are now starting to get hot on warranty related returns due to the amount they get back that are later inspected and found not to be at fault.

If a garage has honoured the contract to fit the parts supplied by the customer, if the parts were fitted correctly then the garage concerned has done what has been asked of them by the customer as that was how the contract was undertaken.

Therefore and its down to the good grace of the garage concerned how the above event of a custome supplying their own parts pans out.

Situations like the example above is something that sadly gets over looked as its felt garages supplying parts do it to make profit and profit only..... some may go down this route but some like us look at it from a different angle
I'm with you on that, equally another point maybe that a garage may charge a reduced labour cost because they offset the money they make from parts.

Mainly the challenge is the garage chains rather that your independent garages. They are unlikely to fit anything not bought through them. Why would they, they make a good mark up and to lose a few customers isn't an issue when your customer base is huge.
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      02-07-2016, 05:05 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Aragorn30d View Post
Why cant they compete on price for parts?

A small garage will still get trade prices at the main dealer, so can either offer those parts to the customer at cost, thus providing a saving to tempt the customer in, or they can charge the customer the full retail price (just like the main dealer would) and make some extra profit. Or somewhere in between.

Their labour charges are also likely to be a lower than either a "specialist" or a main dealer, thus should easily be able to compete...
Trade price is just a set discount on current retail price, you can get a bigger discount the more parts you order.
Ive got a trade account with TPS (vw) because works fleet is vw. I don't get the same discount as a vw indy due to volume.
A small local garage won't order enough from the dealer to get the same discount as an indy or specialist online store, hence they can't compete.
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      02-07-2016, 05:36 AM   #33
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Parts retailers (including Euro's GSF, BMW, Mercedes) will have different tiers of "trade discount" which will be based on volume of business as well as other parameters, which is exactly what Dopescope stated.

Euro's for instance do the various code voucher offers which are attractive and drive the discount orientated customer in to purchase, which is IMO why they've managed to monopolise to a degree the market place.

As for supplying parts and offering discounts re labour rates that's all down to the individual establishment, I see a labour rate as a labour rate, you'd have a pre set agenda re what / how you charge (retail, trade, car club, forum etc.) and the best way forward is that price is set stick to it that way everyone is equal, re the parts they come to you a 'X' amount as the provider of a service if you run a garage you know what the parts cost you charge according hence before hand you'd always ask retail, when the part arrives you know what it costs you and there in lies what you can done re pricing the part attractively for the customer.

The other point I'd make re customers supplying their own parts is that on quite a few occassions we've had people show up with parts they've supplied only to discover they are incorrect/incomplete, either labelled incorrectly with a bar code(happens with Euro's fairly often) or with items missing. When this happens and you cars on the ramp it can put the customer in a bit of a position...
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      02-07-2016, 01:55 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by old grey steve View Post
Parts retailers (including Euro's GSF, BMW, Mercedes) will have different tiers of "trade discount" which will be based on volume of business as well as other parameters, which is exactly what Dopescope stated.

Euro's for instance do the various code voucher offers which are attractive and drive the discount orientated customer in to purchase, which is IMO why they've managed to monopolise to a degree the market place.

As for supplying parts and offering discounts re labour rates that's all down to the individual establishment, I see a labour rate as a labour rate, you'd have a pre set agenda re what / how you charge (retail, trade, car club, forum etc.) and the best way forward is that price is set stick to it that way everyone is equal, re the parts they come to you a 'X' amount as the provider of a service if you run a garage you know what the parts cost you charge according hence before hand you'd always ask retail, when the part arrives you know what it costs you and there in lies what you can done re pricing the part attractively for the customer.

The other point I'd make re customers supplying their own parts is that on quite a few occassions we've had people show up with parts they've supplied only to discover they are incorrect/incomplete, either labelled incorrectly with a bar code(happens with Euro's fairly often) or with items missing. When this happens and you cars on the ramp it can put the customer in a bit of a position...
Thanks for giving an alternative and relevant perspective on this. Appreciate your help and in the other thread too!

I was going to email you for a quote on Friday but your garage is 2.5 hours away from me
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      02-07-2016, 02:39 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by raptor_f22 View Post
Thanks for giving an alternative and relevant perspective on this. Appreciate your help and in the other thread too!

I was going to email you for a quote on Friday but your garage is 2.5 hours away from me
Not a problem....... thing is with this sort of business like many there are different customers, different service providers, and the expierienced are or can be mixed......some have been burnt by what they have been charged some have been left underwhelmed by the end result.

Re overcharging for example sometimes this can boil down to what the customer feels thst they should pay v what the service provider actually charges. You look at the labour rates thst are touted about some are very in my eyes cheap and customers are of course happy others charge more and you may see a different reaction re the work done as the labour charge can dominate the customer expierience and I'll make no excuses re the fact thar as I've seen on here we are not the cheapest re labour rates but we are fair re pricing for whst we to what we have to offer.

As for the work undertaken it's down mainly to the individual looking after the car and their ethical approach to the task in hand.
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      02-08-2016, 03:42 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by old grey steve View Post
Parts retailers (including Euro's GSF, BMW, Mercedes) will have different tiers of "trade discount" which will be based on volume of business as well as other parameters

......

The other point I'd make re customers supplying their own parts is that on quite a few occassions we've had people show up with parts they've supplied only to discover they are incorrect/incomplete, either labelled incorrectly with a bar code(happens with Euro's fairly often) or with items missing. When this happens and you cars on the ramp it can put the customer in a bit of a position...
Tiered discount is exactly what I was trying to say lol

If i'd supplied incorrect / incomplete parts, I would be embarassed and ask the garage what is the best way forward for them.

I have had genuine parts that I have supplied fail in a couple of weeks - back to the garage and asked them to sort it with there sourced parts.
It turned out that there parts failed in a couple of weeks also due to something neither of us had spotted so we worked out a deal for the repair cost.

I would say BYOP is great, but there needs to be a good relationship between the garage and its customers, trust and communication is vital.

Steve you are such a good advert for your garage that I'm well p***ed off your so far away
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      02-08-2016, 04:49 AM   #37
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I would say BYOP is great, but there needs to be a good relationship between the garage and its customers, trust and communication is vital.

Steve you are such a good advert for your garage that I'm well p***ed off your so far away
This is the key and this understanding between the customer and garage is vital.

I phoned Steve in the past RE supplying my own brakes. Steve's stance is clear, don't fit cheap stuff because you are way more likely to have issues, and if you have issues, it's really your problem for going against recommendations. And that's completely fair to me. If you go against the recommendations of a professional, then you are liable for the consequences. They recommend using BMW genuine, because this way customer is less likely to re-visit the garage with issues.

I'm sure Steve's team don't want to be trying to figure out why some £20 pads are squealing either, that's just not a rewarding task, especially when you know there are better quality parts that prevent such issues.

So I ordered genuine discs and pads and Steve's guys fitted them. 5000 miles in and not a single squeak. I was tempted to go with the Bosch, which seem to be OK and were £100 cheaper. There are so few people running them it's hard to gauge their quality.

Steve's labour rates are good and he has a customer for life as far as I am concerned. In fact I may even break my full BMWSH on the new car, because my experience with BMW servicing is so poor in comparison.

Also RE: Mister auto. They sent me a £5 off code, for leaving stuff in the basket!
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      02-08-2016, 08:56 AM   #38
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I can't walk into a workshop with my own parts, and personally don't mind the workshop even making a few pounds on parts, just to save me the hassle.

The importance here is trusting your garage, and that things like fault finding and care of your car are spot on.
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      02-08-2016, 02:09 PM   #39
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I can't walk into a workshop with my own parts, and personally don't mind the workshop even making a few pounds on parts, just to save me the hassle.

The importance here is trusting your garage, and that things like fault finding and care of your car are spot on.
Your right you know how we work now your last visit consumed some time due to previous work re spark plugs done elsewhere and this was very touch and go. We opted to carefully extract the plug (took well over an hour as it was so precarious but it came out we checked the thread and we're happy put the new plug in and the car was A1, the charge as you found out as nil best news for us is you've got your car bsck nice and healthy
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      02-08-2016, 02:15 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by djgandy View Post
This is the key and this understanding between the customer and garage is vital.

I phoned Steve in the past RE supplying my own brakes. Steve's stance is clear, don't fit cheap stuff because you are way more likely to have issues, and if you have issues, it's really your problem for going against recommendations. And that's completely fair to me. If you go against the recommendations of a professional, then you are liable for the consequences. They recommend using BMW genuine, because this way customer is less likely to re-visit the garage with issues.

I'm sure Steve's team don't want to be trying to figure out why some £20 pads are squealing either, that's just not a rewarding task, especially when you know there are better quality parts that prevent such issues.

So I ordered genuine discs and pads and Steve's guys fitted them. 5000 miles in and not a single squeak. I was tempted to go with the Bosch, which seem to be OK and were £100 cheaper. There are so few people running them it's hard to gauge their quality.

Steve's labour rates are good and he has a customer for life as far as I am concerned. In fact I may even break my full BMWSH on the new car, because my experience with BMW servicing is so poor in comparison.

Also RE: Mister auto. They sent me a £5 off code, for leaving stuff in the basket!
Thanks Andy. Some times when I mention bits'n'pieces like parts I can sometimes be a tad 'blunt' over the phone for instance, simple reason is as you know Andy I want to measure twice and cut only once as I hate parts related returns especially when I can actually almost predict a problem ahead.

Labour rate wise I think we are fair we are not the dearest and not the cheapest, but find me another Indy who can call upon AutoLogic diagnosis equipment as well as the full BMW diagnosis set up fully endorsed by BMW AG with full direct support from Germany!
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      02-09-2016, 02:07 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by old grey steve View Post
Your right you know how we work now your last visit consumed some time due to previous work re spark plugs done elsewhere and this was very touch and go. We opted to carefully extract the plug (took well over an hour as it was so precarious but it came out we checked the thread and we're happy put the new plug in and the car was A1, the charge as you found out as nil best news for us is you've got your car bsck nice and healthy
Had I been told I need a fuel pump, 6 injectors, and a turbo by another garage, in think walking in with my own oil would have been slightly irrelevant lol.

After the first service, you know I like to take care of my cars, and you've gained another long term loyal customer.
Thanks again. Costa.
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      02-09-2016, 03:47 AM   #42
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I can't walk into a workshop with my own parts, and personally don't mind the workshop even making a few pounds on parts, just to save me the hassle.

The importance here is trusting your garage, and that things like fault finding and care of your car are spot on.
If I used a garage like Steve's then I probably wouldnt bring my own parts, sometimes it is a hassle looking for parts, checking part numbers, checking forums, delivery etc etc.
A fair mark up is fine as everybody's time is money.
I trust my local garage on their workmanship and have developed a good relationship over a few years. They know I like to work on my and cars they will even get my cars on the diagnostics for free. For jobs I dont have the tools / time or knowledge they know they get the work, but on genuine oem parts I can save hundreds £££ sourcing myself. They just dont get the trade prices that A1BN / Steve does or the time to find out which parts the likes of ECP offers that are actual oem parts

The garage is Marple Motors in Stockport, Father and Son, oval racers, car enthusiast's, straight talking, no nonsense, I have no problem recommending them
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