[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu

With respect to this "discussion".... CPS offsetting would not take anything away from a tune. The argument is whether it adds anything. So even if CPS does not add anything, does this make the JB a better tune... or just equal? And what if it does have a positive effect?

No one is faulting anyone for discussing features, but there is a right and wrong way to go about things. For example with the JB3 there are combined tens of millions of miles now with no reported failures, no signs of detonation problems (reading plugs, etc), and you really have to look far and wide to find an unhappy customer. So it's fair to discuss what you feel your tune does better, but the scare tactics, FUD, and insults employed by some are transparent and underhanded. Some of these people have a track record of this style of marketing on other platforms, and on this platform with other tuners, so this isn't an isolated case. I would also like to say thanks for not doing the above, and providing your opinion in a respectful, no belittling fashion.

You raise some interesting points on the rate of acceleration and we can discuss those points, devise tests, etc. BMS has been reading/writing ecu BINs for a few weeks now using the BT so perhaps I can pry some better data out of them as well. I still think the data supports our floating timing theory, and the more data I see presented here the more seems to fall under that model vs. the base timing map model you've outlined. But there still may be room for both models to coexist. This is a discussion forum first and a marketing platform second, so the more discussion about these things the better!

Mike

[BMW_TT]

Can we seriously get a cliff note or something on this debate and get it stickied?

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

No one is faulting anyone for discussing features, but there is a right and wrong way to go about things.

So it's fair to discuss what you feel your tune does better, but the scare tactics, FUD, and insults employed by some are transparent and underhanded. Some of these people have a track record of this style of marketing on other platforms, and on this platform with other tuners, so this isn't an isolated case.


Mike

Seeing as you brought this theme up and speaking on that note.....the BMS group has condoned such personal attacks over on their website which in my opinion are for more disturbing.

I happened to witness first-hand the publication of personal information and photographs of some members and moderators of this site over on the N54 forum.

This included googling and posting locations and photographs of their residences, careers,and personal and work email addresses as well as defamation of their characters.

You can go visit N54 right now and see the latest photoshop creation of lawdude and shiv.

I sure wouldn't want someone publishing that kind of stuff about me on the internet.....would you?

Do you consider that professional and acceptable?

I have yet to see such posts here on E90 that include this level of intrusion into people's personal lives.

I have seen the arguments here get personal and condescending, but at least that's on the surface and no one is tracking down and stalking/humiliating members with personal information.

I have received emails from BMS under the guise of customer opinions against the Procede, which were presented to me as factual testimonials as to it's detectability.

Never once has Shiv forwarded negative customer testimonials to me.

I am not saying I approve of Shiv's conduct, but I do understand the history behind this tuner battle and don't blame him sometimes.

I just can't stomach the defamation of character that keeps cropping up over at N54 and have to wonder how long it will be before I am a target as well.

Talk about a right way and a wrong way to handle things.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Ilma

I just can't stomach the defamation of character that keeps cropping up over at N54 and have to wonder how long it will be before I am a target as well.

Are you talking about the lawdude photoshop? I didn't even see it until I went looking for it because of your post here. That wasn't posted by BMS and it isn't their role to protect lawdude. He posted his own website URL some time ago and seems to bring that attention to himself. I'm sure if it got really nasty they would close the thread but it looks like a photoshop post and a bunch of laughs, at least for now.

If you are really concerned send an admin an email or PM over on N54.

Mike

[lawdude]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Are you talking about the lawdude photoshop? I didn't even see it until I went looking for it because of your post here. That wasn't posted by BMS and it isn't their role to protect lawdude. He posted his own website URL some time ago and seems to bring that attention to himself. I'm sure if it got really nasty they would close the thread but it looks like a photoshop post and a bunch of laughs, at least for now.

If you are really concerned send an admin an email or PM over on N54.

Mike

Well, since you parroted what Terry told me (after I contacted him about the situation as you suggested), you should be aware that the photoshop picture is a copyrighted photo. Not only could the person who photoshopped it (it was either a BMS employee or in a thread started by a BMS employee) be sued, but the host also could be sued. At this point I'm not so inclined. I just quit posting over there.

Any other suggestions?

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Are you talking about the lawdude photoshop? I didn't even see it until I went looking for it because of your post here. That wasn't posted by BMS and it isn't their role to protect lawdude. He posted his own website URL some time ago and seems to bring that attention to himself. I'm sure if it got really nasty they would close the thread but it looks like a photoshop post and a bunch of laughs, at least for now.

If you are really concerned send an admin an email or PM over on N54.

Mike

This latest incident is not what I speak of.

I believe there was a post which showed googled pictures of Shiv's residence and personal data of 1addicts moderators including work-related email addresses of a moderator as well as lawdude.

I believe it was started as a result of members asking why Terry was banned from these sites.

You should recall these incidents because they were posted just as you came on-board as a vendor and I recall Terry posting that they were deleted so as to prevent any chance of you being banned as a vendor from E90 as a result of it.

One may claim that it was public domain data, but that doesn't make it right in my view.

My point is not to chastise you, but to demonstrate that this behaviour goes on in both camps.

Sure it's entertaining for a while and can even be considered part of the marketing campaign, but IMHO it crosses the line when moderators at N54 condone the posting of personal information like that.

But I know what you are saying......sometimes it adds humour to villify others and it's only human nature.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Ilma

I believe there was a post which showed googled pictures of Shiv's residence and personal data of 1addicts moderators including work-related email addresses of a moderator as well as lawdude.

I do remember that, as it happened many months ago. I thought you were referring to something more recent. I think they posted the name, address, and phone number of the owner of this site, which is listed under the domain registration. Their position was that this person is running a business and that there was no expectation of privacy, but I did think it reflected poorly on BMS, asked for it to be deleted, and it was. I'm not sure what that has to do with Shiv though...

Mike

[Sparky66]

Maybe pictures showing googled images of Shiv's residence was the final straw............BMS at their best

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Sparky66

Maybe pictures showing googled images of Shiv's residence was the final straw............BMS at their best

huh? where did they do this? Terry blocked my IP so I can't look at n54tech even if i wanted to. I stopped going there once they made my face into an emoticon :shiv:

damn... doesn't work here. This is one reason I roll my eyes when Mike@n54 pretends to take the high road.

[Morpheus]

Personally I could care less about the moral fiber of the companies I buy products from as long as their products perform as advertised. I'm not sure what we're talking about here. I really don't understand the constant bickering. Isn't there enough market share for everybody? You don't see the DP or exhaust companies going after each other. Sheesh. Get over it already.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

I do remember that, as it happened many months ago. I thought you were referring to something more recent. I think they posted the name, address, and phone number of the owner of this site, which is listed under the domain registration. Their position was that this person is running a business and that there was no expectation of privacy, but I did think it reflected poorly on BMS, asked for it to be deleted, and it was. I'm not sure what that has to do with Shiv though...

Mike

Sorry for the long OT....but you mentioned earlier that Shiv uses underhanded tactics and insults.

I am not denying that......just pointing out that the company you represent does the same.

I do acknowledge that you don't personally engage in it on this forum (which I respect).

[Hit_Apex]

Originally Posted by lawdude

(it was either a BMS employee or in a thread started by a BMS employee)

What support do you have for this allegation?