Driving schools

choatie88 · 03-21-2007, 02:46 AM

Has anyone done both the BMW performance center 2-day non-M school and one of the car control clinics hosted by the BMW CCA chapters? Is it worth doing both, particularly since the BMW school is $1095 + airfare + hotel?

I'm ordering an E93, so, sadly, no BMW CCA performance schools for me (the national BMW CCA requires full roll cages in all convertibles for these events).

edspilot · 03-21-2007, 07:10 AM

I thing the 2 day non-M PDC school was great. You will not get the level of attention nor the time to put to use the skills in any shorter class.

Read my write up here, read all as I have also answered questions farther down.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45588

Enjoy.

Dean

S4to335 · 03-21-2007, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choatie88

Has anyone done both the BMW performance center 2-day non-M school and one of the car control clinics hosted by the BMW CCA chapters? Is it worth doing both, particularly since the BMW school is $1095 + airfare + hotel?

I'm ordering an E93, so, sadly, no BMW CCA performance schools for me (the national BMW CCA requires full roll cages in all convertibles for these events).

I have taught at the local BMW CCA chapter events...and plan to do more. I think they are very worth it...go to one in your region. I taught with them at Sears point raceway/Infineon in Sonoma CA.

choatie88 · 03-21-2007, 11:02 AM

Unfortunately I can't do the BMW CCA performance driving schools, because the central BMW CCA doesn't allow its chapters to accept convertibles without rollcages. No way I'm going to spoil a brand new E93 with a rollcage

I can do the autocross and car control clinics (~autocross speeds I think) though. I was wondering whether the BMW driving school is worth the $1000 given that the club autocross events are generally under $100. edspilot mentioned in his other thread that the top speed at the BMW school was 80mph. It sounded like most of the courses they worked on were autocross-style.

S4to335 · 03-21-2007, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choatie88

Unfortunately I can't do the BMW CCA performance driving schools, because the central BMW CCA doesn't allow its chapters to accept convertibles without rollcages. No way I'm going to spoil a brand new E93 with a rollcage

I can do the autocross and car control clinics (~autocross speeds I think) though. I was wondering whether the BMW driving school is worth the $1000 given that the club autocross events are generally under $100. edspilot mentioned in his other thread that the top speed at the BMW school was 80mph. It sounded like most of the courses they worked on were autocross-style.

bummer...yes..convertibles are no-no's at road courses these days. I know..rent a spec miata at one of those events..and then take the skills you learn and apply it to your daily driving of the e93. :-)

choatie88 · 03-21-2007, 11:45 AM

It's hard for me to rent a car (I'm under 25)...

How often do people roll their cars at road courses, anyways? Is it actually a hazard, or are the clubs just covering their asses in our litigious society?

2e9x's · 03-21-2007, 01:03 PM

Whether you choose to do an auto-x school or track school is a question of what you are trying to accomplish. Auto-x teaches you fine car control skills. A good auto-x'r makes a great road racer. However, your teaching is in 90 second (give or take) bits with about 5-10 minutes between runs. On a good day you might get 15 runs in.

Conversely a track school will usually be at least 4 20 minute sessions. Track schools do not focus as much on car control skills but are better for teaching lines and smoothness. Good road racers do not make good auto-x'rs because track driving is a totally different experience.

The BMW CCA schools (both track and auto-x) are some of the best I have ever attended (and I have attended many of both types). The instructors are top notch!! If you can't do a track school by all means do auto-x.

And yes, at track days cars do roll, crash, etc...The risks are much higher on a track than on an auto-x course. High speed driving always entails some degree of risk. The nice thing about auto-x is the risk is MUCH lower as is the cost.

Have fun and be safe!

hkj · 03-21-2007, 01:17 PM

+1 on the BMWCCA schools (both auto-x/car control clinic and track schools). Well worth the money.

-hkj

bartman32 · 04-02-2007, 12:33 PM

+1 on renting a car if you have a convertable. They are definately worth it and a LOT of fun! You will learn more about controling a car than you will believe!

CoralRedPlz · 04-06-2007, 11:24 AM

where can u rent a spec miata to drive for the schools/events?

rsjames · 04-06-2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoralRedPlz

where can u rent a spec miata to drive for the schools/events?

Where are you located? I can probably give you some suggestions for race car rental in your area.

Richard

S4to335 · 04-06-2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsjames

Where are you located? I can probably give you some suggestions for race car rental in your area.

Richard

Yeah...I know of tons of guys that rent spec miatas in NorCal...because I have one..and know tons of spec miata owners.

Larry Oka Racing (Larry Oka)
Hartzel Automotive (Barry Hartzel)
Ian Cook Motorsports (Ian Cook)
Off Camber Racing (Justin Hall)

And probably at least six more...maybe as much as nine more.

Cost for a weekend varies depending on event, time of year, availability of cars, caliber of cars, etc

sblument · 04-07-2007, 12:00 AM

I've been to 3 autocrosses, 1 drivers school (Windy City Putnam Park), signed up for Road America this month. Still no Schroth harnesses for the E90 hopefully coming soon

CoralRedPlz · 04-07-2007, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsjames

Where are you located? I can probably give you some suggestions for race car rental in your area.

Richard

unfortunately, im in the race track inhibited state of florida. couple that with the most boring roads in the country, i need some track time!!

im still unsure whether or not i would use my own car or not, but a rental car made for the track sounds pretty awesome to learn on before i go running my $50k baby into a wall.

rsjames · 04-07-2007, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoralRedPlz

unfortunately, im in the race track inhibited state of florida. couple that with the most boring roads in the country, i need some track time!!

Race track inhibited? I guess certain parts; but there's still Daytona, Sebring, Moroso and Homestead. In neighboring states you have Roebling Road and Road Atlanta in Georgia and Barber in Alabama.

Don't have my resources at home to check into rentals, but there should be a ton of them in your area. What part of Florida?

Richard

CoralRedPlz · 04-08-2007, 12:11 PM

i am in SW FL, but i was under the impression that the public doesnt get to ride on daytona/sebring etc. and i know that moroso is closing very soon for a rehaul of it.

those atlanta courses look great, but now that im in SW florida, that is a 9hr+ drive.

sounds like i need to do some better research maybe. i will def. check it out. and if u find any good info, id love to see it. thanks!

cgnahc · 04-08-2007, 04:50 PM

Go to the BMW chapter Car Control Clinic first, then go for more advanced driving events. The clinic is cheap. In So Cal, clinic and dinner was $100. Track is good, mainly acceleration, line, and braking. Use up tires, fuel, and more cash. Auto X is so much fun too. I can do it all day....Yup even in my RFT. BTW, get your own helmet or at least get your own head sock.

rsjames · 04-10-2007, 11:22 AM

Rather than renting a car for a track day or the like, have you thought about one of the professional racing schools? I know some of them run schools at Sebring.

Most of them run open-wheelers, but there are some alternatives. Panoz runs at Road Atlanta and Sebring, and uses the Panoz GT car. Skip Barber just started offering schools using the MX-5 Cup-spec car (but only at Laguna Seca and Road America). Of course, the professional schools will be more than teh BMW school.

If your objective is to learn to drive at the limit, a professional school will teach you that. Follow it up with some kind of car control clinic in your own car and a few autocrosses and you'll be well ahead of 99% of drivers.

Richard

CoralRedPlz · 04-10-2007, 01:13 PM

thanks! i think a driving school of some sort is the way to go at first.

DJZ4MC · 04-16-2007, 04:53 AM

I've driven my M3 at Sebring many times. Several groups have excellent driving school programs that will let you take your own car:

"Sunshine Bimmers" http://www.sunshinebeemer.com/
"Chin Motorsports" http://www.chinmotorsports.com/events/calendar_2007.asp

Roebling Road in southern Georgia is another fabulous track.

Daytona, on the other hand, is generally not open to these type of events.

sq86 · 04-23-2007, 10:17 PM

I def recommed skip barber. i attended the three day and two day race schools and have learned tons. It makes you a better driver and you feel more confident. I also attended a licensing course in Spain for Formula BMW USA to get my FIA C licesne. But in any case, skip barber is good because its arrive and drive.

03-21-2007, 02:46 AM	#1
choatie88 Second Lieutenant 9 Rep 205 Posts Drives: iX, Volvo XC90, McLaren 12C Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Greenwich, CT iTrader: (0)	Driving schools Has anyone done both the BMW performance center 2-day non-M school and one of the car control clinics hosted by the BMW CCA chapters? Is it worth doing both, particularly since the BMW school is $1095 + airfare + hotel? I'm ordering an E93, so, sadly, no BMW CCA performance schools for me (the national BMW CCA requires full roll cages in all convertibles for these events). __________________ 335i E93 Monaco/Beige ZPP ZSP ZCW 322 507 6FL ZPD
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03-21-2007, 07:10 AM	#2
edspilot Private First Class 7 Rep 145 Posts Drives: Looking Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: WV iTrader: (0)	Here's my threat from early Feb 07 w/ pics I thing the 2 day non-M PDC school was great. You will not get the level of attention nor the time to put to use the skills in any shorter class. Read my write up here, read all as I have also answered questions farther down. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45588 Enjoy. Dean __________________ 2012 535i xDrive Citation Bravo Jet Past: 1976 C-182 Past: 2005 R22 Beta II Past: 2006 330i
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03-21-2007, 11:02 AM	#4
choatie88 Second Lieutenant 9 Rep 205 Posts Drives: iX, Volvo XC90, McLaren 12C Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Greenwich, CT iTrader: (0)	Unfortunately I can't do the BMW CCA performance driving schools, because the central BMW CCA doesn't allow its chapters to accept convertibles without rollcages. No way I'm going to spoil a brand new E93 with a rollcage I can do the autocross and car control clinics (~autocross speeds I think) though. I was wondering whether the BMW driving school is worth the $1000 given that the club autocross events are generally under $100. edspilot mentioned in his other thread that the top speed at the BMW school was 80mph. It sounded like most of the courses they worked on were autocross-style. __________________ 335i E93 Monaco/Beige ZPP ZSP ZCW 322 507 6FL ZPD
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03-21-2007, 11:45 AM	#6
choatie88 Second Lieutenant 9 Rep 205 Posts Drives: iX, Volvo XC90, McLaren 12C Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Greenwich, CT iTrader: (0)	It's hard for me to rent a car (I'm under 25)... How often do people roll their cars at road courses, anyways? Is it actually a hazard, or are the clubs just covering their asses in our litigious society? __________________ 335i E93 Monaco/Beige ZPP ZSP ZCW 322 507 6FL ZPD
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03-21-2007, 01:03 PM	#7
2e9x's Major 50 Rep 1,137 Posts Drives: 335i ED 7/07 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: A Sunny Place iTrader: (2)	Whether you choose to do an auto-x school or track school is a question of what you are trying to accomplish. Auto-x teaches you fine car control skills. A good auto-x'r makes a great road racer. However, your teaching is in 90 second (give or take) bits with about 5-10 minutes between runs. On a good day you might get 15 runs in. Conversely a track school will usually be at least 4 20 minute sessions. Track schools do not focus as much on car control skills but are better for teaching lines and smoothness. Good road racers do not make good auto-x'rs because track driving is a totally different experience. The BMW CCA schools (both track and auto-x) are some of the best I have ever attended (and I have attended many of both types). The instructors are top notch!! If you can't do a track school by all means do auto-x. And yes, at track days cars do roll, crash, etc...The risks are much higher on a track than on an auto-x course. High speed driving always entails some degree of risk. The nice thing about auto-x is the risk is MUCH lower as is the cost. Have fun and be safe!
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03-21-2007, 01:17 PM	#8
hkj Major 60 Rep 1,205 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 330i [0.00]	+1 on the BMWCCA schools (both auto-x/car control clinic and track schools). Well worth the money. -hkj
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04-02-2007, 12:33 PM	#9
bartman32 Colonel 101 Rep 2,317 Posts Drives: F87 M2 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: The OC iTrader: (0) Garage List 2017 M2 [0.00]	+1 on renting a car if you have a convertable. They are definately worth it and a LOT of fun! You will learn more about controling a car than you will believe!
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04-06-2007, 11:24 AM	#10
CoralRedPlz restless 7 Rep 484 Posts Drives: Space Grey, Coral Red 335i Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: around town iTrader: (0)	where can u rent a spec miata to drive for the schools/events? __________________ 335i space, coral/gray poplar, step, loaded, but with no AS, AC or rear shade. Front lip painted and installed and springs going on this week. pics coming soon.
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04-07-2007, 12:00 AM	#13
sblument Lieutenant 13 Rep 427 Posts Drives: 2006 330i Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Champaign, IL iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 330i [0.00]	I've been to 3 autocrosses, 1 drivers school (Windy City Putnam Park), signed up for Road America this month. Still no Schroth harnesses for the E90 hopefully coming soon __________________ 2006 330i, SP, PP, fold down rear seats, sparkling graphite, black leather, metallic trim.
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04-08-2007, 12:11 PM	#16
CoralRedPlz restless 7 Rep 484 Posts Drives: Space Grey, Coral Red 335i Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: around town iTrader: (0)	i am in SW FL, but i was under the impression that the public doesnt get to ride on daytona/sebring etc. and i know that moroso is closing very soon for a rehaul of it. those atlanta courses look great, but now that im in SW florida, that is a 9hr+ drive. sounds like i need to do some better research maybe. i will def. check it out. and if u find any good info, id love to see it. thanks! __________________ 335i space, coral/gray poplar, step, loaded, but with no AS, AC or rear shade. Front lip painted and installed and springs going on this week. pics coming soon.
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04-08-2007, 04:50 PM	#17
cgnahc Major 84 Rep 1,263 Posts Drives: TiAg E90 ZSP Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Westlake Village, CA iTrader: (9)	Go to the BMW chapter Car Control Clinic first, then go for more advanced driving events. The clinic is cheap. In So Cal, clinic and dinner was $100. Track is good, mainly acceleration, line, and braking. Use up tires, fuel, and more cash. Auto X is so much fun too. I can do it all day....Yup even in my RFT. BTW, get your own helmet or at least get your own head sock.
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04-10-2007, 11:22 AM	#18
rsjames Private First Class 2 Rep 122 Posts Drives: 07 335i Montego Blue Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Orange County, Calif. iTrader: (0)	Rather than renting a car for a track day or the like, have you thought about one of the professional racing schools? I know some of them run schools at Sebring. Most of them run open-wheelers, but there are some alternatives. Panoz runs at Road Atlanta and Sebring, and uses the Panoz GT car. Skip Barber just started offering schools using the MX-5 Cup-spec car (but only at Laguna Seca and Road America). Of course, the professional schools will be more than teh BMW school. If your objective is to learn to drive at the limit, a professional school will teach you that. Follow it up with some kind of car control clinic in your own car and a few autocrosses and you'll be well ahead of 99% of drivers. Richard
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04-10-2007, 01:13 PM	#19
CoralRedPlz restless 7 Rep 484 Posts Drives: Space Grey, Coral Red 335i Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: around town iTrader: (0)	thanks! i think a driving school of some sort is the way to go at first. __________________ 335i space, coral/gray poplar, step, loaded, but with no AS, AC or rear shade. Front lip painted and installed and springs going on this week. pics coming soon.
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04-16-2007, 04:53 AM	#20
DJZ4MC inducing oversteer 0 Rep 14 Posts Drives: Z4MC Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: safe and snug in the garage iTrader: (0)	I've driven my M3 at Sebring many times. Several groups have excellent driving school programs that will let you take your own car: "Sunshine Bimmers" http://www.sunshinebeemer.com/ "Chin Motorsports" http://www.chinmotorsports.com/events/calendar_2007.asp Roebling Road in southern Georgia is another fabulous track. Daytona, on the other hand, is generally not open to these type of events.
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04-23-2007, 10:17 PM	#21
sq86 Captain 363 Rep 781 Posts Drives: 2013 328i E92 LMB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Brooklyn iTrader: (0) Garage List 2013 BMW 328i (E92) [0.00]	I def recommed skip barber. i attended the three day and two day race schools and have learned tons. It makes you a better driver and you feel more confident. I also attended a licensing course in Spain for Formula BMW USA to get my FIA C licesne. But in any case, skip barber is good because its arrive and drive.
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