About to replace clutch, need options, several questions

Ferruccio · 02-18-2013, 04:08 AM

My final wheel horsepower goal is somewhere around 450 to 500. I am currently at 400. My clutch is beginning to slip.

Should I upgrade to a single mass flywheel when I swap the clutch, keep my current dual mass flywheel, or get a new dual mass flywheel?

I do not care about how fast the engine revs. I am quite happy with the current inertia. I am concerned, however, with chatter. Is chatter caused by single mass flywheels by their nature, or is chatter caused by them being lighter?

Additionally, how much needs to be done to make a flywheel/clutch fit a car? Doesn't the 335i share the E60 M5's manual transmission? Could, perhaps, the F10 M5's clutch and flywheel (manual option) be used on a 335i?

These questions all stem from ignorance, but I have not been able to get any answer on other boards.

jokergerm · 02-18-2013, 12:22 PM

I would keep the stock dual mass flywheel, and get the ACT street clutch.

I have that setup with JB4, DCI, Meth, 3"DP and that clutch hooks up.
with the stock clutch it would not even chirp the tires going into 2nd gear now it will kick out sideways if your not careful

I would replace the stock flywheel with a NEW oem style if it was me and bolt the ACT street clutch to it

Rotorocious · 02-18-2013, 12:52 PM

New DMFW and spec stg 2+

I had the ACT and the engagement wasn't great and on paper it's barely enough to contain the power of a FBO car.

Ferruccio · 02-18-2013, 03:11 PM

I heard rumors about the stock DMFW exploding under heavy loads, and that it is a possible weak point, however. Anyone heard about this here?

Evil///M · 02-18-2013, 04:28 PM

Clutchmasters. Nuff said.

jokergerm · 02-18-2013, 04:36 PM

I dont think a stock DMFW will explode unless your side stepping the clutch with 600 Hp on dry pavement with LSD

I have FBO and that ACT clutch is the bomb

OpenFlash · 02-18-2013, 04:57 PM

Definitely go with a single mass flywheel IMHO. It will save you the hassle of dealing with crank signal noise/spark scatter. The slight rattle at idle may or may not bother you so it's a good idea to listen to a SMFW-equipped car in person before making your decision.

As for clutch, we have had the best results with Spec clutches. Avoid cheap clutches (ACT for instance) as they tend to have worse pedal modularity and make quick shifting very difficult if not impossible. At least that has been my experience based upon the few I've driven and feedback I've gotten from customers who have them.

Shiv

Rotorocious · 02-18-2013, 06:29 PM

I will vouch on how shitty it is to shift quickly on the ACT. I just dealt with it but on the spec its not even an issue.

I went to an ACT and it started slipping about a year after and just went with a spec at the beginning of this month.

qubansailor · 02-18-2013, 06:54 PM

I've had my CM stage 3 Fiber tough for about a year and its starting to slip now. Never did any launching or crazy shit. Just daily driving and going fast. It held great until now.

Ferruccio · 02-18-2013, 07:05 PM

I've heard some flywheel chatter in other cars on YouTube and it sounds pretty terrible, to me. I do not know whether I would want to live with that.

Also, what is spark scatter? I have done extensive searching on the term, but, I have not been able to find anything. I know that the stock flywheel has some issue with the crank position sensor, but I am still unsure as to how it affects the spark timing.

dfjaws · 02-18-2013, 08:30 PM

I just got my car back from having the HPF stage 1 put in it and it feels fantastic. Firm but not overly aggressive. I daily drive this car and this clutch is perfectly fine for daily driving. A friend of mine tried it out and commented that it felt just like his C5 Corvette. I can't really back that up though as I've never driven his Corvette. No rattles or anything so far. There is a *slight* slipping once in awhile when I'm starting out from a very low rpm though. I've been told it will subside after break-in. It doesn't do it if I tailor my launch to suit the clutch though. It seems to only do it if I try to drive exactly like I did on my 75k mile OEM clutch. I've only got 20 miles on it so far so we'll see. I'll report back when I've got around 500-1000.

Yes the clutch is expensive but so far I think it's perfect for a FBO/meth/RB/whatever daily driven car.

Ferruccio · 02-18-2013, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfjaws

I just got my car back from having the HPF stage 1 put in it and it feels fantastic. Firm but not overly aggressive. I daily drive this car and this clutch is perfectly fine for daily driving. A friend of mine tried it out and commented that it felt just like his C5 Corvette. I can't really back that up though as I've never driven his Corvette. No rattles or anything so far. There is a *slight* slipping once in awhile when I'm starting out from a very low rpm though. I've been told it will subside after break-in. It doesn't do it if I tailor my launch to suit the clutch though. It seems to only do it if I try to drive exactly like I did on my 75k mile OEM clutch. I've only got 20 miles on it so far so we'll see. I'll report back when I've got around 500-1000.

Yes the clutch is expensive but so far I think it's perfect for a FBO/meth/RB/whatever daily driven car.

But did you change your flywheel?

dfjaws · 02-18-2013, 10:54 PM

No, just an OEM dual mass. I'm not too concerned about the misfire issue with the DMFW's. I don't plan on pushing the car to the point where people are seeing this issue come up. If I do find myself down that road someday I'll just get a new flywheel.

Ænema · 02-18-2013, 11:30 PM

If you're not going past FBO+meth then the stock flywheel will work fine. I do recommend going with a new OEM replacement though, the dual mass unit uses springs that wear out over time and just resurfacing it won't do the job.

I've already got the money put away for bigger turbos(not sure which option though yet) and i've read nothing but good things about the SPEC stage 3+ and steel SMFW setup so that's probably what i'm doing. A little chatter/NVH isn't a big deal to me.

Dave W. · 02-18-2013, 11:36 PM

For your power goals I'd either get a new DMFW or just get a SMFW. The chatter of a SMFW isn't too bad, if you turn on the radio you can barely hear it and it's only noticeable at a stop.

Ferruccio · 02-19-2013, 11:11 AM

Yeah, I don't plan on ever going over 500whp. I'll replace the DMFW and use a spec clutch. Thanks for the input, everyone.

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 02-19-2013, 08:16 PM

I would stick with OEM DMFW unless you plan on going over 500WHP.

If you are willing to have a touch of chatter then go with the SMFW but keep in mind its really for those pushing more power on upgraded turbo's.

Let me know if you need any help with the BMW Spec Clutch Kits.

02-18-2013, 04:08 AM	#1
Ferruccio First Lieutenant 40 Rep 373 Posts Drives: 2010 335i Join Date: May 2011 Location: Colorado Springs, CO iTrader: (1)	About to replace clutch, need options, several questions My final wheel horsepower goal is somewhere around 450 to 500. I am currently at 400. My clutch is beginning to slip. Should I upgrade to a single mass flywheel when I swap the clutch, keep my current dual mass flywheel, or get a new dual mass flywheel? I do not care about how fast the engine revs. I am quite happy with the current inertia. I am concerned, however, with chatter. Is chatter caused by single mass flywheels by their nature, or is chatter caused by them being lighter? Additionally, how much needs to be done to make a flywheel/clutch fit a car? Doesn't the 335i share the E60 M5's manual transmission? Could, perhaps, the F10 M5's clutch and flywheel (manual option) be used on a 335i? These questions all stem from ignorance, but I have not been able to get any answer on other boards.
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02-18-2013, 12:22 PM	#2
jokergerm Lieutenant 127 Rep 571 Posts Drives: 2015 M6 GC Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: seattle iTrader: (0)	I would keep the stock dual mass flywheel, and get the ACT street clutch. I have that setup with JB4, DCI, Meth, 3"DP and that clutch hooks up. with the stock clutch it would not even chirp the tires going into 2nd gear now it will kick out sideways if your not careful I would replace the stock flywheel with a NEW oem style if it was me and bolt the ACT street clutch to it __________________
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02-18-2013, 12:52 PM	#3
Rotorocious Lieutenant Colonel 103 Rep 1,520 Posts Drives: 335xi Join Date: May 2010 Location: Colorado iTrader: (3)	New DMFW and spec stg 2+ I had the ACT and the engagement wasn't great and on paper it's barely enough to contain the power of a FBO car.
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02-18-2013, 03:11 PM	#4
Ferruccio First Lieutenant 40 Rep 373 Posts Drives: 2010 335i Join Date: May 2011 Location: Colorado Springs, CO iTrader: (1)	I heard rumors about the stock DMFW exploding under heavy loads, and that it is a possible weak point, however. Anyone heard about this here?
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02-18-2013, 04:28 PM	#5
Evil///M Professional Hitman 162 Rep 995 Posts Drives: R8 V10+ \| Colorado Z71 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: 602 iTrader: (12) Garage List 2014 Audi R8 v10+ [10.00] 2021 Ford Ranger Tr ... [0.00] 2019 BMW M2 Competi ... [9.50]	Clutchmasters. Nuff said. __________________
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02-18-2013, 04:36 PM	#6
jokergerm Lieutenant 127 Rep 571 Posts Drives: 2015 M6 GC Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: seattle iTrader: (0)	I dont think a stock DMFW will explode unless your side stepping the clutch with 600 Hp on dry pavement with LSD I have FBO and that ACT clutch is the bomb __________________
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02-18-2013, 04:57 PM	#7
OpenFlash 1737 Rep 17,960 Posts Drives: A Lot Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: SF Bay, CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 Ducati Panigal ... [0.00] 2016 Mazda CX5 [0.00] 2017 Aprilia Tuono ... [0.00] 2019 BMW M2 Competi ... [0.00] 2015 BMW M5 Competi ... [10.00] 2016 Ducati XDiavel S [0.00] 2016 AMG GT S [0.00] 2011 Ferrari 458 It ... [0.00] 2017 Charger Hellcat [0.00] 2015 KTM Super Duke ... [0.00] 2016 KTM RC390 [0.00]	Definitely go with a single mass flywheel IMHO. It will save you the hassle of dealing with crank signal noise/spark scatter. The slight rattle at idle may or may not bother you so it's a good idea to listen to a SMFW-equipped car in person before making your decision. As for clutch, we have had the best results with Spec clutches. Avoid cheap clutches (ACT for instance) as they tend to have worse pedal modularity and make quick shifting very difficult if not impossible. At least that has been my experience based upon the few I've driven and feedback I've gotten from customers who have them. Shiv
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02-18-2013, 06:29 PM	#8
Rotorocious Lieutenant Colonel 103 Rep 1,520 Posts Drives: 335xi Join Date: May 2010 Location: Colorado iTrader: (3)	I will vouch on how shitty it is to shift quickly on the ACT. I just dealt with it but on the spec its not even an issue. I went to an ACT and it started slipping about a year after and just went with a spec at the beginning of this month.
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02-18-2013, 06:54 PM	#9
qubansailor Lieutenant 43 Rep 489 Posts Drives: 2007 335i Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Jacksonville, FL iTrader: (4)	I've had my CM stage 3 Fiber tough for about a year and its starting to slip now. Never did any launching or crazy shit. Just daily driving and going fast. It held great until now. __________________ (SOLD) E92 335i Engine: RB//SPEC 2+ SMFW//PTF tune//AA FMIC//AP DP//BMS DCI//BMS CDV Mod//AA BOV//AE Exhaust// Body: MTEC body w/ M3 side skirts/M3 style CF hood/LCI tails/CSL trunk lid/OSS AE/M3 F/R control arms/Stoptech Cross drilled rotors & steel braided brake lines
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02-18-2013, 07:05 PM	#10
Ferruccio First Lieutenant 40 Rep 373 Posts Drives: 2010 335i Join Date: May 2011 Location: Colorado Springs, CO iTrader: (1)	I've heard some flywheel chatter in other cars on YouTube and it sounds pretty terrible, to me. I do not know whether I would want to live with that. Also, what is spark scatter? I have done extensive searching on the term, but, I have not been able to find anything. I know that the stock flywheel has some issue with the crank position sensor, but I am still unsure as to how it affects the spark timing.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-18-2013, 08:30 PM	#11
dfjaws Lieutenant 57 Rep 535 Posts Drives: E90 M3 / E86 M Coupe Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Des Moines, IA iTrader: (5)	I just got my car back from having the HPF stage 1 put in it and it feels fantastic. Firm but not overly aggressive. I daily drive this car and this clutch is perfectly fine for daily driving. A friend of mine tried it out and commented that it felt just like his C5 Corvette. I can't really back that up though as I've never driven his Corvette. No rattles or anything so far. There is a slight slipping once in awhile when I'm starting out from a very low rpm though. I've been told it will subside after break-in. It doesn't do it if I tailor my launch to suit the clutch though. It seems to only do it if I try to drive exactly like I did on my 75k mile OEM clutch. I've only got 20 miles on it so far so we'll see. I'll report back when I've got around 500-1000. Yes the clutch is expensive but so far I think it's perfect for a FBO/meth/RB/whatever daily driven car. __________________
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02-18-2013, 10:54 PM	#13
dfjaws Lieutenant 57 Rep 535 Posts Drives: E90 M3 / E86 M Coupe Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Des Moines, IA iTrader: (5)	No, just an OEM dual mass. I'm not too concerned about the misfire issue with the DMFW's. I don't plan on pushing the car to the point where people are seeing this issue come up. If I do find myself down that road someday I'll just get a new flywheel. __________________
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02-18-2013, 11:30 PM	#14
Ænema Captain 14 Rep 961 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Arizona Bay iTrader: (0)	If you're not going past FBO+meth then the stock flywheel will work fine. I do recommend going with a new OEM replacement though, the dual mass unit uses springs that wear out over time and just resurfacing it won't do the job. I've already got the money put away for bigger turbos(not sure which option though yet) and i've read nothing but good things about the SPEC stage 3+ and steel SMFW setup so that's probably what i'm doing. A little chatter/NVH isn't a big deal to me. __________________ "I'm not surprised you get along well with all the other neighbours. If you put fifty children with Down's syndrome in a room there is going to be a lot of hugging." David Thorne
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02-18-2013, 11:36 PM	#15
Dave W. Lieutenant 5 Rep 538 Posts Drives: Porsche 951, 1992 Eagle Talon Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: SF Bay Area iTrader: (0)	For your power goals I'd either get a new DMFW or just get a SMFW. The chatter of a SMFW isn't too bad, if you turn on the radio you can barely hear it and it's only noticeable at a stop.
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02-19-2013, 11:11 AM	#16
Ferruccio First Lieutenant 40 Rep 373 Posts Drives: 2010 335i Join Date: May 2011 Location: Colorado Springs, CO iTrader: (1)	Yeah, I don't plan on ever going over 500whp. I'll replace the DMFW and use a spec clutch. Thanks for the input, everyone.
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02-19-2013, 08:16 PM	#17
Jeff@TopGearSolutions 3441 Rep 79,211 Posts Drives: C6 Z06, 09 335i, 10 335xi Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: www.TopGearSolutions.com iTrader: (37)	I would stick with OEM DMFW unless you plan on going over 500WHP. If you are willing to have a touch of chatter then go with the SMFW but keep in mind its really for those pushing more power on upgraded turbo's. Let me know if you need any help with the BMW Spec Clutch Kits.
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