OpenFlash Tablet for N52

OpenFlash · 01-09-2014, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMG KLR

Also shiv. Is the tuning of throttle response a simple task or it is more than just changing a percentage. If it is simple, can those with the msv60/70s read their rom and send it to you for just throttle response in the time being?

Sure, that's no problem. We usually just scale up the Throttle table by a fixed percentage to eliminate/reduce perceived throttle lag. Would also be easy to raise rev limits as well.

AMG KLR · 01-09-2014, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Sure, that's no problem. We usually just scale up the Throttle table by a fixed percentage to eliminate/reduce perceived throttle lag. Would also be easy to raise rev limits as well.

Excellent! I am fine with that I will send you my ROM when I get my unit in for the throttle fix and rev limiter if you would like and will let you know *if* any issues arrive on the msv70 ecu

OpenFlash · 01-09-2014, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMG KLR

Excellent! I am fine with that I will send you my ROM when I get my unit in for the throttle fix and rev limiter if you would like and will let you know *if* any issues arrive on the msv70 ecu

Sounds good! Looking forward to it....

shiv

e90pilot · 01-09-2014, 04:07 PM

Do you know if there is anyway to actually remove the throttle dampening? It's amazing how much there actually is. When you floor it or lift quickly the actual throttle opens and loses very slowly.

Propagator · 01-10-2014, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e90pilot

Do you know if there is anyway to actually remove the throttle dampening? It's amazing how much there actually is. When you floor it or lift quickly the actual throttle opens and loses very slowly.

I have the original tester. The throttle remap helps, but it doesn't really eliminate that delay you are talking about. It would be great to see more improvements on this front.

andrey_gta · 01-10-2014, 02:12 PM

Can't wait to see n52 dyno results, esp if anyone has 3stage manifold

1QuikWS6 · 01-10-2014, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Propagator

I have the original tester. The throttle remap helps, but it doesn't really eliminate that delay you are talking about. It would be great to see more improvements on this front.

Well, I hope throttle remap/response has been improved in the versions currently being sold, over your beta tester unit (or at least being currently worked on for improvement).

For me, the throttle response is just as important as the performance tune.

I was told by sales:

Quote:

We adjust the throttle to how it should behave in relation to power output. We don't just make the throttle more sensitive and thinking you are going fast by less throttle input

But then Shiv reports:

Quote:

We usually just scale up the Throttle table by a fixed percentage to eliminate/reduce perceived throttle lag

- which doesn't sound like it would yield the results if done by the description thru sales dept

> Guess have to wait and see how it performs - if not optimum, do you think it would be possible to run BMS PBX on lower stage of throttle remap ONLY, on top of OFT, to see how it performs without any damage?

AMG KLR · 01-10-2014, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1QuikWS6

Well, I hope throttle remap/response has been improved in the versions currently being sold, over your beta tester unit (or at least being currently worked on for improvement).

For me, the throttle response is just as important as the performance tune.

I was told by sales:

But then Shiv reports:- which doesn't sound like it would yield the results if done by the description thru sales dept

> Guess have to wait and see how it performs - if not optimum, do you think it would be possible to run BMS PBX on lower stage of throttle remap ONLY, on top of OFT, to see how it performs without any damage?

Run both PBX and OFT bro lets make a shivP4

Propagator · 01-10-2014, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1QuikWS6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Propagator

I have the original tester. The throttle remap helps, but it doesn't really eliminate that delay you are talking about. It would be great to see more improvements on this front.

Well, I hope throttle remap/response has been improved in the versions currently being sold, over your beta tester unit (or at least being currently worked on for improvement).

For me, the throttle response is just as important as the performance tune.

I was told by sales:

Quote:

We adjust the throttle to how it should behave in relation to power output. We don't just make the throttle more sensitive and thinking you are going fast by less throttle input

But then Shiv reports:

Quote:

We usually just scale up the Throttle table by a fixed percentage to eliminate/reduce perceived throttle lag

- which doesn't sound like it would yield the results if done by the description thru sales dept

> Guess have to wait and see how it performs - if not optimum, do you think it would be possible to run BMS PBX on lower stage of throttle remap ONLY, on top of OFT, to see how it performs without any damage?

I should have the final version that is being sold, at least that was my understanding when I volunteered. I also agree throttle response is one of the most important things. As I said, it feels better, due to the remap. But it's still not quite as sharp as an NA engine should be.

OpenFlash · 01-10-2014, 04:14 PM

The PBX, as I understand it, just alters modified the TPS signal so that it results in more throttle opening at a given throttle application. This is essentially the same as remapping the dbw tables so using them together is completely redundant.

I think it's important to distinguish between throttle lag (time delay between throttle application and throttle blade opening) and throttle linearity. For those who grew up with cable actuated throttles that provide extremely nonlinear relationship between pedal and throttle blade, going to a dbw system that keeps the relationship much more linear will feel laggy.

But I have not logged/measured any excessive lag between pedal input and throttle blade opening. It opens abruptly and closes abrubtly when the throttle pedal goes WOT and then closed. The buffering that one feels during transients had more to do with how the fuel and timing is managed to minimize emissions. That can be improved through other means.

For those who simply want a more nonlinear relationship (think cable actuated throttle), the throttle table can be remapped accordingly. The changes I've made in the OTS maps is relatively small. Nothing stopping us from offering optional OTS maps with more significant mapping changes. Just pick what feels best to you.

AMG KLR · 01-10-2014, 04:56 PM

Shiv is right. My E46 M3 has amazing throttle response but the E90 is not as great. There is only so much you can do with the throttle fellas

1QuikWS6 · 01-10-2014, 06:14 PM

Thanx for the clarification Shiv

And you are correct - I AM old school - this BMW is my 1st DBW car & I certainly am not impressed. As far as I'm concerned, if it ain't broke - don't fix it. Cable throttle will always be better in my eyes...

I was kinda putting the cart before the horse - I'll wait till I see how throttle reacts with your current tune - if I don't like it, I'll get back with you for enhancements

-Or-
are you working at perfecting the tune even more to yield a throttle response more like that of a cable throttle?

-Or-
is that something that I would need to request specifically for my personal tune when I send my file in?

AlpineSwift · 01-11-2014, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1QuikWS6

Thanx for the clarification Shiv

And you are correct - I AM old school - this BMW is my 1st DBW car & I certainly am not impressed. As far as I'm concerned, if it ain't broke - don't fix it. Cable throttle will always be better in my eyes...

I was kinda putting the cart before the horse - I'll wait till I see how throttle reacts with your current tune - if I don't like it, I'll get back with you for enhancements

+1 as we are both former LS1 T/A owners.

martinlag · 01-11-2014, 01:36 AM

Just sent you a copy of my ROM Shiv.

StealYourFace · 01-11-2014, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlpineSwift

+1 as we are both former LS1 T/A owners.

+2.... I had an LT1 Firebird Forumla, 6 speed, no tee tops, great car. I'd like another f body someday.

AMG KLR · 01-11-2014, 05:47 PM

Just put in my order can't wait to get it in. I hope I can send out my rom before I send my car to the dealer for bumper replacement

OpenFlash · 01-11-2014, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinlag

Just sent you a copy of my ROM Shiv.

Yep! Got it. Working through it

AMG KLR · 01-12-2014, 06:07 PM

Shiv in order to support the MSV70 ecu on the 2006 325i's, is there a software update that has not been pushed out yet or any new OFT out of the box (or fresh updated out the box) can read them. Its just that there is no tune correct?

AlpineSwift · 01-12-2014, 07:13 PM

After USPS being a bunch of useless idiots (as usual) I've been able to confirm I will have the OFT in my possession by tomorrow. I'm starting a separate thread specifically for reviews and tuning discussion so as not to clutter Shiv's thread. Hopefully by doing so it should allow more direct questions and issues with the unit to be addressed by Shiv and the Vishnu team.

alexwhittemore · 01-12-2014, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlpineSwift

After USPS being a bunch of useless idiots (as usual) I've been able to confirm I will have the OFT in my possession by tomorrow.

I don't understand how they can be so horribly inconsistent, but they absolutely are. It's silly.

OpenFlash · 01-12-2014, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMG KLR

Shiv in order to support the MSV70 ecu on the 2006 325i's, is there a software update that has not been pushed out yet or any new OFT out of the box (or fresh updated out the box) can read them. Its just that there is no tune correct?

The current OFTs, as we ship them, can read both MSD80/81 and MSV70. No updates necessary. Just plug it in, read your ROM, and email it to me (shiv@vishnutuning.com).

Cheers,
shiv

1QuikWS6 · 01-13-2014, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlpineSwift

After USPS being a bunch of useless idiots (as usual) I've been able to confirm I will have the OFT in my possession by tomorrow. I'm starting a separate thread specifically for reviews and tuning discussion so as not to clutter Shiv's thread. Hopefully by doing so it should allow more direct questions and issues with the unit to be addressed by Shiv and the Vishnu team.

I don't even have a useless tracking# for mine, so I guess it didn't ship yet

01-09-2014, 04:07 PM	#444
e90pilot Freight Dawg 104 Rep 2,103 Posts Drives: E90 325i Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Oakland, CA iTrader: (3)	Do you know if there is anyway to actually remove the throttle dampening? It's amazing how much there actually is. When you floor it or lift quickly the actual throttle opens and loses very slowly. __________________ --Marcelo '06 Arctic Metallic 325i \| Sport Package \| 6MT \| Dinan Stage III suspension \| Dinan exhaust \| 330i manifold swap! Click here! \| Active Autowerke tune \| 135i Brake Calipers \| Deiselboost caliper brackets \| E46 M3 front rotors
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01-10-2014, 02:12 PM	#446
andrey_gta Brigadier General 298 Rep 4,040 Posts Drives: 130i coupé ;) Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Bimmerpost iTrader: (1) Garage List 2008 BMW 128i [10.00]	Can't wait to see n52 dyno results, esp if anyone has 3stage manifold __________________ 128i Sport 6MT converted to Euro 130i spec, 3.73 diff, tuned by evolve ~220 whp 207 wtq(ft-lb) SAE In-progress: //M front arm, M3 rack, e36M lip Wishlist: Coils, n55 mnts, headers, LSD, e60 finn diff "The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving." - R&T 2013 135is
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01-10-2014, 04:14 PM	#450
OpenFlash 1737 Rep 17,960 Posts Drives: A Lot Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: SF Bay, CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 Ducati Panigal ... [0.00] 2016 Mazda CX5 [0.00] 2017 Aprilia Tuono ... [0.00] 2019 BMW M2 Competi ... [0.00] 2015 BMW M5 Competi ... [10.00] 2016 Ducati XDiavel S [0.00] 2016 AMG GT S [0.00] 2011 Ferrari 458 It ... [0.00] 2017 Charger Hellcat [0.00] 2015 KTM Super Duke ... [0.00] 2016 KTM RC390 [0.00]	The PBX, as I understand it, just alters modified the TPS signal so that it results in more throttle opening at a given throttle application. This is essentially the same as remapping the dbw tables so using them together is completely redundant. I think it's important to distinguish between throttle lag (time delay between throttle application and throttle blade opening) and throttle linearity. For those who grew up with cable actuated throttles that provide extremely nonlinear relationship between pedal and throttle blade, going to a dbw system that keeps the relationship much more linear will feel laggy. But I have not logged/measured any excessive lag between pedal input and throttle blade opening. It opens abruptly and closes abrubtly when the throttle pedal goes WOT and then closed. The buffering that one feels during transients had more to do with how the fuel and timing is managed to minimize emissions. That can be improved through other means. For those who simply want a more nonlinear relationship (think cable actuated throttle), the throttle table can be remapped accordingly. The changes I've made in the OTS maps is relatively small. Nothing stopping us from offering optional OTS maps with more significant mapping changes. Just pick what feels best to you.
	Appreciate 0

01-10-2014, 04:56 PM	#451
AMG KLR Captain 163 Rep 732 Posts Drives: 2018 440i GC Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	Shiv is right. My E46 M3 has amazing throttle response but the E90 is not as great. There is only so much you can do with the throttle fellas
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01-10-2014, 06:14 PM	#452
1QuikWS6 No 55mph 1622 Rep 8,476 Posts Drives: F32 435ix MSport Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Blitzburgh, PA iTrader: (113) Garage List 2022 BMW M440ix Vert [0.00] 2015 BMW 435ix MSport [0.00] 2000 Pontiac Trans Am [0.00]	Thanx for the clarification Shiv And you are correct - I AM old school - this BMW is my 1st DBW car & I certainly am not impressed. As far as I'm concerned, if it ain't broke - don't fix it. Cable throttle will always be better in my eyes... I was kinda putting the cart before the horse - I'll wait till I see how throttle reacts with your current tune - if I don't like it, I'll get back with you for enhancements -Or- are you working at perfecting the tune even more to yield a throttle response more like that of a cable throttle? -Or- is that something that I would need to request specifically for my personal tune when I send my file in? __________________ F32 435ix//MGM//M Sport-Prem-Tech-Driver Assist-Lighting-Cold Weather-Dyn Handling Pkgs//M4 Black Lthr Int w/M4 Alum Blade Trim//HK w/Bavsound Stg3//763M//M4 Euro LCI Tails//M4 Mirrors w/CF Covers//AWCarbon CF F/R Spoilers-Side Splitters-Diffuser 6WB/ID6 HU+HUD/IND M4 Alcantara Armrest//PURE S2 Turbo//AA FMIC+DP//ER CP+TIC//3.5bar TMAP/TS DV//AWE Tuning Exh w/Blk Tips//Turner MS CF Intake//BM3 Cary Jordan Tune//MPerf Diff//PrecRW Ignition Kit Last edited by 1QuikWS6; 01-12-2014 at 03:54 PM..
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01-11-2014, 01:36 AM	#454
martinlag Enlisted Member 2 Rep 44 Posts Drives: E91 M-Sport and F30 M-Sport Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: SF Bay iTrader: (0)	Just sent you a copy of my ROM Shiv.
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01-11-2014, 05:47 PM	#456
AMG KLR Captain 163 Rep 732 Posts Drives: 2018 440i GC Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	Just put in my order can't wait to get it in. I hope I can send out my rom before I send my car to the dealer for bumper replacement
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01-12-2014, 06:07 PM	#458
AMG KLR Captain 163 Rep 732 Posts Drives: 2018 440i GC Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	Shiv in order to support the MSV70 ecu on the 2006 325i's, is there a software update that has not been pushed out yet or any new OFT out of the box (or fresh updated out the box) can read them. Its just that there is no tune correct?
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01-12-2014, 07:13 PM	#459
AlpineSwift Colonel 77 Rep 2,114 Posts Drives: 2008 335Xi Coupé Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Castle Rock, CO iTrader: (3)	After USPS being a bunch of useless idiots (as usual) I've been able to confirm I will have the OFT in my possession by tomorrow. I'm starting a separate thread specifically for reviews and tuning discussion so as not to clutter Shiv's thread. Hopefully by doing so it should allow more direct questions and issues with the unit to be addressed by Shiv and the Vishnu team. __________________ E92 '08 335Xi 6AT - Cobb AP3 Tuned by MAC Autosport, Original Prototype Xi DOCRace 6266 Single Turbo Swap, VRSF CP w/Synapse BOV, VRSF 7" FMIC, BMS Cowl, H&R Coilovers, Renn Motorsport RS-51's, Stoptech Stage 2 Slotted, xHP Stage 3, Earl's Racing Oil Cooler, Turner Boost Gauge, M3 Lip Spoiler. Standing Mile Record Holder for Xi over a mile high: 168.2MPH @ 5512'; The Colorado Mile hosted by The US Mile.
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