[John 070]

Originally Posted by Viktimize

You sure about that? The Tundra does not come with an LSD in any trim level, so I would've thought the Taco would be same deal.





Open diff takes the path of least resistance. So if a wheel gets spinning, it keeps spinning. Applying brake pressure to the spinning wheel essentially adds some resistance and starts shifting power to the other wheel.





A locked diff would do this. But a LSD should essentially be open until it slips, most LSD's would not have enough power through them to lock up when just spinning by hand.







HUGE misconception that I see a lot of. I am assuming that the guys saying this are from farther south where they don't expereince slippery conditions very often if ever at all. When you compare what is happening on a track to what happens in bad weather you can see they are the same thing. When you corner hard and have one wheel lift and create a low traction situation that causes wheel spin, it is directly comparable to driving the car with one rear wheel on ice and one on pavement. One wheel starts spinning and the other goes nowhere. LSD transfers that power to the wheel with traction and keeps/gets you moving.

Anyone who drives in slippery conditions like winter driving, will benefit greatly from LSD. You'll be able to get traction and start moving without traction control killing your power. You won't have your rear brakes wearing out excessively. It's an all around good thing for winter driving.

Long story short, do you want to run a firewall that is software on your device, or do you want an appliance that is hardware?

Nobody is saying that electronic stability control or electronic limited slip does not work, it does. But it works by reducing your potential, not increasing it. If a person had a choice, he'd rather have the hardware.

[Root2k4]

Originally Posted by Blackhawk36

If it "hooked up great" and you were happy with it, whay would you be disappointed?

One WOT in the rain and it hooked up. Now knowing I don't have a LSD I know I'm fairly screwed in any inclement weather. At least my RWD Tacoma has a LSD and I've been able to get home when the going got snowy. 1WD BMW will have to be grounded on such days. Weak. Fortunately I don't get a whole lot of slick days where I live. Geez, even my wife's retired Civic SI had a LSD...but guess that more of a requirement with FWD. Just disappointed b/c look what others are saying about LSD. Surprised that's not standard issue on a car of this caliber.

[Kolyan2k]

With DSC/DTC LSD is not a must even in snow, but its nice to have and i feel mine working almost every day in rain or snow.

[paddy335]

Originally Posted by Root2k4

Surprised that's not standard issue on a car of this caliber.

Rumour has it that the 335i was originally intended for a LSD but did not make production.

[Dark_Knight_335]

I'm a living testament to how much our "e-diff" really sucks.

Admittedly, I fucked up, but if I had an LSD during my little "curb incident" I can't help but think of how much better off I would have been.

That said, I just can't bring myself to drop that kind of money on a feature that I may only experience while pushing the car to its very limits.

[e90335iftw]

Only the M series BMWS have LSD. Unfortunately for us, they're pricks. We have open dif . Which is bullshit tbh. A 300+ hp sports car shouldn't have open dif.

[achien]

best way to check is actually in the dry...

got WOT when coming out of the corner, you will feel 'power' coming out of the outer side of your rear wheel. it feels like your car's rear end knows how to turn by itself.

Originally Posted by Root2k4

I've looked around for some detailed specs on my 2011 E90 M-sport to find out answers to such questions. I can only assume it does have a limited slip since I WOTed 1st in the rain today with DTC off and she still hooked up great. But I wish I could turn back time and download all the detailed specs from BMW website back in 2011. Any good repositories out there for such information? Thanks!

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by Root2k4

One WOT in the rain and it hooked up. Now knowing I don't have a LSD I know I'm fairly screwed in any inclement weather. .... 1WD BMW will have to be grounded on such days. Weak. ....

You're not screwed. Last weekend, I drove up to Crystal Mt. ski area in my 335d (with snow tires) without any hitches - with 8-12 inches new snow ON THE ROAD. Even got stopped on a hill a couple times by bozos with bald tires. However, I wasn't able to get into the upper lot (I have a parking pass) because people were blocking the bottom of it. Wanna guess who was blocking it? A guy in a Jeep Grand Cherokee and an Audi A4 Quattro, both with all-season (excuse me NO-SEASON) tires.

[TimIHB335]

I have had a Wave track LSD for 2yrs.. It's awesome. Much better quick take offs with added power. It was 1150.00 in 2011 but i think the prices have dropped some now. It is probably the best mod on my car.

[CruzS4e92]

install is complicated, right? in that e9x produced 07-onward require welding/machine to mount an LSD, whereas prior everything was just bolted together?

[Viktimize]

Originally Posted by John 070

Long story short, do you want to run a firewall that is software on your device, or do you want an appliance that is hardware?

Nobody is saying that electronic stability control or electronic limited slip does not work, it does. But it works by reducing your potential, not increasing it. If a person had a choice, he'd rather have the hardware.

The E-LSD works, just not very well at all. I'm not sure if you misinterpreted what I said? But I agree, the mechanical LSD is hands down the way to go for best results.

Stability control is great in BMW's. I wouldn't change that for normal driving.

[Viktimize]

Originally Posted by Root2k4

One WOT in the rain and it hooked up. Now knowing I don't have a LSD I know I'm fairly screwed in any inclement weather. At least my RWD Tacoma has a LSD and I've been able to get home when the going got snowy. 1WD BMW will have to be grounded on such days. Weak. Fortunately I don't get a whole lot of slick days where I live. Geez, even my wife's retired Civic SI had a LSD...but guess that more of a requirement with FWD. Just disappointed b/c look what others are saying about LSD. Surprised that's not standard issue on a car of this caliber.

BMW's do surprisingly well in inclement weather. The big problem is just on take offs. It starts braking the slipping wheel, and then it also kills power, so it screws you from both angles. You can just turn off the DSC for take offs, it will just kill your rear brakes a little quicker.

But it is surprising BMW didn't just put a proper LSD in from factory. It is supposed to be the "Ultimate Driving Machine" afterall. I would gladly shell out an extra 500$ for the thing.

[galahad05]

Originally Posted by TimIHB335

I have had a Wave track LSD for 2yrs.. It's awesome. Much better quick take offs with added power. It was 1150.00 in 2011 but i think the prices have dropped some now. It is probably the best mod on my car.

Agreed on that. I still consider going this route--I KNOW this is one of if not THE best bang for the buck mods you can do. Well, short of a tune I guess (with a turbo model).

Helps in bad weather, helps on off-the-line launch, helps to put the power down on tight corners.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by Viktimize

...But it is surprising BMW didn't just put a proper LSD in from factory. It is supposed to be the "Ultimate Driving Machine" afterall. I would gladly shell out an extra 500$ for the thing.

FYI, I paid about that (might have been only $225?) for a 25% LSD in my '91 525i. It's all a money thing - ADB uses existing hardware and gives you 90% of what a LSD would give you. For the majority of the BMW drivers, that's a good deal: essentially a free LSD.

[Viktimize]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

FYI, I paid about that (might have been only $225?) for a 25% LSD in my '91 525i. It's all a money thing - ADB uses existing hardware and gives you 90% of what a LSD would give you. For the majority of the BMW drivers, that's a good deal: essentially a free LSD.

It could've just as easily been made an option. That way anyone who understands the benefits could at least put it on their vehicle, and anyone who lives in Cali and doesn't drive their car very hard can save the money. Seems like it would be a win for everyone that way.

[Root2k4]

Originally Posted by walmark

Am I right in thinking that with DTC mode on the e-diff still works but without cutting the power?

From the manual:
In the same way as with a differential interlock*, even if DSC is deactivated, brake actions are still performed to enhance drive output if the drive wheels experience a significant loss of traction.

[3s4u2]

Originally Posted by TimIHB335

I have had a Wave track LSD for 2yrs.. It's awesome. Much better quick take offs with added power. It was 1150.00 in 2011 but i think the prices have dropped some now. It is probably the best mod on my car.

Nice, went for the ultimate LSD, the patented Wavetrac is the best you can buy at the moment as far as I'm concerened, won't disengage when you unload a wheel in a hard turn.

[David1]

The function/effectivness of the e-diff varies by the production years. The 07/08 year 335 e-diff is not that great, I had an 07. Starting in 09 with the 335 and 135 cars the system was updated. From 09 on if you have stabillity fully off, the e-diff still functions without throttle cut and for the most part is very effective. I can say my 09 e-diff is way better than my 07 was even comparing the two with DTC on.

[galahad05]

Originally Posted by David1

The function/effectivness of the e-diff varies by the production years. The 07/08 year 335 e-diff is not that great, I had an 07. Starting in 09 with the 335 and 135 cars the system was updated. From 09 on if you have stabillity fully off, the e-diff still functions without throttle cut and for the most part is very effective. I can say my 09 e-diff is way better than my 07 was even comparing the two with DTC on.

Interesting! By the way, a long long time ago I read that the e-diff feature only worked at speeds below 25 mph. Is this still true?

[calicolorado]

It's frustrating how BMW hobbles the cars by not even offering a LSD. I think you could spec one on the option sheet up until the E34. I know it was definitely an option on the E28.

[David1]

Originally Posted by galahad05

Interesting! By the way, a long long time ago I read that the e-diff feature only worked at speeds below 25 mph. Is this still true?

It works at all speeds.

[techwhiz]

Originally Posted by John 070

Long story short, do you want to run a firewall that is software on your device, or do you want an appliance that is hardware?

Nobody is saying that electronic stability control or electronic limited slip does not work, it does. But it works by reducing your potential, not increasing it. If a person had a choice, he'd rather have the hardware.

You are truly showing the geek in you.....
Firewall comparisons..

But then again, I understand them. Me -> MSEE (chip design and network security).