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Critique my audio upgrade
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05-27-2011, 01:32 PM | #1 |
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Critique my audio upgrade
I am about to make the jump to a full audio upgrade and would like some feedback on my setup.
2009 e92 with Logic7 Sub: 10” Kappa Perfect sub (New - sitting in my closet from a few years ago) JBL MS-A5001 Mono Amplifiers Wicked CAS corner enclosure Midbass: Kicker 04SSMB8 8in underseat subs (is there a better option for midbass since I have a sub?) Processor: JBL MS-8 to power the OEM speakers and midbass Really, I want to know if the Kickers are the best option for midbass, and if the MS-8 will be strong enough to power them.
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2009 e92 335i 6spd :: Black Sapphire Metallic :: Coral Red :: Work Gnosis GS4 Wheels (20x8.5+32/20x9.5+35) :: Bronze Rays Lug Nuts :: AngeliBright v3 :: PROcede v4 :: Injen DCI :: Clutch Stop :: B&G S2 Sport Springs :: Matte Black Kidney Grilles :: Tinted Taillights :: Escort Passport 9500ix :: Samsung S1 160GB HDD
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05-27-2011, 01:47 PM | #2 |
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Upgrading the OEM speakers should be on your list too. Also doing an amp for them and the mid bass will greatly impact audio quality. Either a 6 channel amp or a 4 channel and a 2 channel amp will work. Since you have the L7 system the speakers aren't terrible so doing the amps first might be a better idea.
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05-27-2011, 02:53 PM | #3 | |
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- Get a 4-channel amp instead of the mono amp. Use 2 channels for the underseats and bridge the remaining 2 into the sub. HD600/4 would be great, PDXF6 or XR-4S would also work, as long as you can get 300W out of the bridged channel which is about all that sub needs IMO. - try it with the OEM woofers first, they sound great with about 100W and high-passed at 60Hz. - get an additional tweeter and add it to the center channel - get the Technic harness!
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Mobridge DA2 > JBL MS-8 > ARC XDi 600/4 > JBL Gti 408 Mids & Vifa OT19 Tweeters; PG Ti2 1600.5 > Morel HCW-10 & IDMax 15
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05-27-2011, 11:25 PM | #4 | |
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I doubt the input of the JBL amp can take the voltage out on the sub channel of the L7 amp. I'm not a Perfect fan. |
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05-29-2011, 01:44 PM | #5 |
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I'm in the same boat as the OP. Is there any way simply amping the stock under-seat woofers will obviate the need for a discrete subwoofer in the trunk? Or is going the sub route really the best bet.
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05-29-2011, 01:51 PM | #6 |
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The door mids won't give you meaningful output below about 200. The woofers under the seat CAN give you good output down to about 50. Sub-bass starts at 50 (and most FM stations don't broadcast signals below 50).
So bass is from 300-20. The 8" size can do a really good job without a trunk sub. But if you want to play really loud, or play a lot of Rap/hip-hop or techno/electronica loud, you may need a trunk sub. If you run your bass way high, all the time, you need some kind of upgrade. I haven't had my trunk sub in my car for months. But I'm 45... |
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05-29-2011, 01:59 PM | #8 |
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Thanks. And good idea mentioning the source... Most of my music is from Sirius, which I know is not a very good source. Anyone know how low they broadcast?
I mostly listen to electronic but not at very loud levels - what I'd like to call "reasonable" levels |
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05-29-2011, 02:44 PM | #9 |
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I've heard Sirius/XM broadcasts as low as 96 kbps. I personally consider 128 to be too low and 256 to be acceptable.
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05-29-2011, 03:29 PM | #10 |
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OP: sorry for hijacking your thread....
Okay so I'm thinking getting the Wicked CAS enclosure, a JLw3v3, and maybe a Kenwood XR-4S amp with 2 channels for the under-seat woofers and 2 bridged into the JL sub. Good yes/no? I picked that amp essentially at random and because it looked physically small/easy to mount. I'm aiming to put the amp/wiring in the trunk floor compartment for a stealth insall. Is that amp too small? 300 RMS to the sub and 120 RMS to each under-seat woofer. Also, do I need to run new wiring to the under-seat woofers? I'm hoping not... |
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06-01-2011, 07:06 AM | #11 | |
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What do you mean the JBL amp cant take the voltage out of the L7? Which amps can and what makes the difference?
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2009 e92 335i 6spd :: Black Sapphire Metallic :: Coral Red :: Work Gnosis GS4 Wheels (20x8.5+32/20x9.5+35) :: Bronze Rays Lug Nuts :: AngeliBright v3 :: PROcede v4 :: Injen DCI :: Clutch Stop :: B&G S2 Sport Springs :: Matte Black Kidney Grilles :: Tinted Taillights :: Escort Passport 9500ix :: Samsung S1 160GB HDD
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06-01-2011, 09:17 AM | #12 | |
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Don't worry about amp inputs, since they will be fed by MS-8 signal!
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06-01-2011, 09:28 AM | #13 |
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Hey, I just said "not a fan".
I did not see the MS8 down there. I'm not clear on the need for the MS amps if you use an MS8. They are still unproven. I would use another amp myself (hey, they aren't shipping to me anyway so I don't have a choice). |
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06-07-2011, 02:04 PM | #14 |
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Eh.. I like matching products. MS amp for the sub and MS-8 for everything else, but it looks like I need a sub for the below seat speakers so that plan is probably out.
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2009 e92 335i 6spd :: Black Sapphire Metallic :: Coral Red :: Work Gnosis GS4 Wheels (20x8.5+32/20x9.5+35) :: Bronze Rays Lug Nuts :: AngeliBright v3 :: PROcede v4 :: Injen DCI :: Clutch Stop :: B&G S2 Sport Springs :: Matte Black Kidney Grilles :: Tinted Taillights :: Escort Passport 9500ix :: Samsung S1 160GB HDD
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06-08-2011, 12:58 PM | #17 |
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Would I still need the MS-8 for this setup ?
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2009 e92 335i 6spd :: Black Sapphire Metallic :: Coral Red :: Work Gnosis GS4 Wheels (20x8.5+32/20x9.5+35) :: Bronze Rays Lug Nuts :: AngeliBright v3 :: PROcede v4 :: Injen DCI :: Clutch Stop :: B&G S2 Sport Springs :: Matte Black Kidney Grilles :: Tinted Taillights :: Escort Passport 9500ix :: Samsung S1 160GB HDD
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06-08-2011, 01:48 PM | #18 |
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Yes, if you want to power the center and rear speakers. and yes if you want it to sound superb. I would HIGHLY recommend to try the OEM woofers first, as they make GREAT midbass drivers in combination with a sub. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Let the MS-8 power all 4" and 1" speakers, add a tweeter to the center, and get a 4 channel amp with 100W x 2 underseat and 300W x 1 for the sub. Audiophile system for less than $1000.
Edit: If you want to maximize the potential of the Infinity sub, get a corner-loaded enclosure. VP Electricity makes tham and another forum member as well. Trust me, it'll sound amazing and through the location it will optimize the output and minimize rattles, plus you keep your trunk space. I tried a single Infinity Perfect 12" sub in a Crutchfield enclosure, and no matter where I put it in the trunk, the output was very low. Now with a 10" sub in the trunk corner, the output is easily double that of the single 12" and probably close to a couple of 10s.
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Last edited by kaigoss69; 06-08-2011 at 01:57 PM.. |
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06-08-2011, 01:51 PM | #19 |
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The MS-8 fills a lot of blocks in the block diagram:
- amplified speaker-level converter - channel summing (your L7 system has high-pass crossover filtered and low-pass filtered outputs, no ful-range output - the MS-8 sums it all back together to full-range) - signal processing reversal - "normalization" - de-equalization - auto equalization and time correction (using the headset) - crossover filtering - 8 definable preamp channels (front, rear, center, sub, etc.) - 8 RCA outputs and 8 deck-power speaker-level outputs, mirroring each other So in Logic 7 cars, you need most of those bullets. They can be provided by other products, or a combo of other products, but the big plus from the MS-8 is that the internal power is enough - given the efficient 2-ohm factory speakers in the Logic 7 system - to let you power some of them using the MS-8 internal power. The channels that ALWAYS need external amplification are the underseat woofer channels. The next channels that benefit from it are the front door channels. What taibanl is referring to is using the 600/6 on the Front High (door 4" components) and Front Low (8" woofer) RCA outputs of the MS-8, and then using the speaker level outputs of the MS-8 for Center and Rear Effects/"Side". That is a common setup with our customers. 150x2 for the woofers and 75x2 for the 4" and tweeter set. And if you even think about cramming a 5.25 in a car where a good 4" sounds great, Santa will give you coal in your stocking for Christmas. |
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06-08-2011, 01:52 PM | #20 | |
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06-08-2011, 02:30 PM | #21 | |
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Oh, and the advice I give here is almost solely based on my experience. I have gone through almost every imaginable upgrade option on the L7 system, and I have done it all in baby steps, so I know what works and what does not.
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06-08-2011, 02:41 PM | #22 |
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So you've run the stock woofers with your sub, then? I've lost track of all the changes you've made.
I guess my point is this. I tell people they can amplify the stock woofers for midbass. I also tell people that there are some aftermarket woofers that sounds better than stock, and that if you blow the stock woofer, you can't just buy the woofer driver from the dealer - they want to sell you a complete assembly with the enclosure, for a lot of money (as I'm sure you know). A lot of our customers want to go back to stock later (which you can't do easily with a blown stock woofer). So we use aftermarket woofers because we want a higher Pe and a warranty. I'm not trying to rip people off selling them aftermarket midbass or woofer drivers, by any means. The popularity of the Kickers seems to show that people want an upgrade for the midbass. Someday those will be gone (I wish I could have bought some of them on that closeout deal), and I wish I had lower-cost units to sell. I'd be happy to just amplify the underseats if I wasn't worried about them failing. I've tried a lot of permutations in my own vehicle, too. Some I didn't write up or wouldn't fit. But there is that fine line that delineates "this is what I've run" and "this is what I used to run and I didn't like it" and "I've tried it and hated it (like MS-8 powering the woofers : )" and "this makes sense to me on paper". That last one we all go to at times, but I know that I try to differentiate which of them I'm talking about... Anyway, that's the only point I was making. I was initially very skeptical of the Jehnerts, and I still don't recommend them for folks who are going to raise the bass all the way up, play rap, and not get a trunk sub. But I love the way they sound, and even with the exchange rate, they've been a popular choice with our customers. |
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