[0utlier]

If you guys are really getting your cars for an honest to god, out the door price, of invoice plus $500 total dealer profit, you are to be commended. That's gotta be one competitive market you live in.

[AndrewAZ]

On a buy $500 over invoice isnt bad but on a lease... I leased my 07 328i for a tad over $600 under invoice. Yes under invoice. But I am sure I got screwed on my trade in and they made that profit up. But I will never pay $500 above invoice again. Especially for a BMW it better be $1k below invoice.

[0utlier]

You find a dealer that will sell you new BMW for $1K under invoice, all else being nominal, please let us know. That dealer will be inundated with sales.

[beefybmer]

Originally Posted by AndrewAZ

On a buy $500 over invoice isnt bad but on a lease... I leased my 07 328i for a tad over $600 under invoice. Yes under invoice. But I am sure I got screwed on my trade in and they made that profit up. But I will never pay $500 above invoice again. Especially for a BMW it better be $1k below invoice.

It's a numbers game. It sounds like you negotiated more on the sale price of the car rather than the lease money factor and trade. They were probably happy to show you $600 under invoice to pacify you.

The salesman is probably still on vacation. Just kidding.

[AndrewAZ]

Originally Posted by beefybmer

It's a numbers game. It sounds like you negotiated more on the sale price of the car rather than the lease money factor and trade. They were probably happy to show you $600 under invoice to pacify you.

The salesman is probably still on vacation. Just kidding.

I know where I got screwed. We all live and learn. But I got burned on my trade in. But at the time I wanted to get rid of it and get something new, we all fall victim to this to some extent.

[Sal@AUTOcouture]

Originally Posted by AndrewAZ

On a buy $500 over invoice isnt bad but on a lease... I leased my 07 328i for a tad over $600 under invoice. Yes under invoice. But I am sure I got screwed on my trade in and they made that profit up. But I will never pay $500 above invoice again. Especially for a BMW it better be $1k below invoice.

Why do you feel like you should get the car for under invoice? If BMW's were selling for UNDER invoice nobody would want them bc they'd be distressed merchandise like Chevy's and all you supremacists would say how much BMW sucks. You're paying for quality and the name. Plus, dont forget that the sales people deserve a living too, you dont work for free do you?

[Lassaxi]

Here's what I do: If I'm willing to pay $800 over invoice, that's what I negotiate. I'll pay extra for taxes, tags, and registration. That's all. The dealer can call that $800 whatever he wants: MACO, documentation, bubble gum, whatever. But, the bottom line will be $800 + tax + tags/registration.

[e90driver]

Originally Posted by Lassaxi

Here's what I do: If I'm willing to pay $800 over invoice, that's what I negotiate. I'll pay extra for taxes, tags, and registration. That's all. The dealer can call that $800 whatever he wants: MACO, documentation, bubble gum, whatever. But, the bottom line will be $800 + tax + tags/registration.

I do the same thing with my leases. I figure what I'm willing to pay monthly and how many miles I need and how long I want to lease. I could care less about Money Factor, Selling price, etc. they either meet my monthly payment or I go elsewhere. Works for me everytime. When they try to change miles or terms to make it work, I tell them no. I want x y and z for $550, including tax. either you can or you can't...

[will@longbeachbmw]

Originally Posted by jwed335i

Yes, either trade equity or money down.

The national ad and doc fee are BS.

WTF is MACO?

This guy obvoiusly knows what he is talking about.

"National ad is BS - What's MACO?"

You need to do some research my friend

[jwed335i]

thumsup:

Originally Posted by will@longbeachbmw

This guy obvoiusly knows what he is talking about.

"National ad is BS - What's MACO?"

You need to do some research my friend

Let me guess.... BS California fees. We don't have them here. Oh I see, if you participate in the national advertising group the dealer charges these fees. I have never had to pay it. HMMMM. You probably have doc and training fees too. I guess another reason not to buy from you or your dealership.

That's nice of your dealership to pass that on to your customers. Don't you think the dealership should eat that cost? I mean the whole reason for national advertising is to increase business, right. Apparently it does not work or you just suck at your job.

[0utlier]

Originally Posted by Lassaxi

Here's what I do: If I'm willing to pay $800 over invoice, that's what I negotiate. I'll pay extra for taxes, tags, and registration. That's all. The dealer can call that $800 whatever he wants: MACO, documentation, bubble gum, whatever. But, the bottom line will be $800 + tax + tags/registration.

Just so there isn't questionable information out there. MACO is not some type of fancy name for dealer profit. It is paid to BMW NA by the dealer. The amount of this fee is based on the region your dealer is located in and varies between regions. Some regions don't have to pay MACO to BMW NA.

[jwed335i]

Originally Posted by 0utlier

Just so there isn't questionable information out there. MACO is not some type of fancy name for dealer profit. It is paid to BMW NA by the dealer. The amount of this fee is based on the region your dealer is located in and varies between regions. Some regions don't have to pay MACO to BMW NA.

Is it included in MSRP by BMW NA? If not then the dealer is passing it on directly to their customer at their own discretion just like any other additional fee.

[Sal@AUTOcouture]

Originally Posted by will@longbeachbmw

This guy obvoiusly knows what he is talking about.

"National ad is BS - What's MACO?"

You need to do some research my friend

THANK YOU. ignorance is bliss

[jwed335i]

Originally Posted by AutoCouture

THANK YOU. ignorance is bliss

Apparently!

[halfpast3]

Originally Posted by 0utlier

Just so there isn't questionable information out there. MACO is not some type of fancy name for dealer profit. It is paid to BMW NA by the dealer. The amount of this fee is based on the region your dealer is located in and varies between regions. Some regions don't have to pay MACO to BMW NA.

Holy Bat Guano Batman!! Someone on this thread knows what they are talking about. You deserve to be commended sir!

If MACO (or national BS ad fee as some of you call it) appears on a dealers invoice you are going to pay it. PERIOD. Your $500 deal over invoice included it. It will not be disclosed separately b/c it is on the invoice.

[beefybmer]

Originally Posted by halfpast3

Holy Bat Guano Batman!! Someone on this thread knows what they are talking about. You deserve to be commended sir!

If MACO (or national BS ad fee as some of you call it) appears on a dealers invoice you are going to pay it. PERIOD. Your $500 deal over invoice included it. It will not be disclosed separately b/c it is on the invoice.

I have never seen this fee either so I am curious. Can someone show me a copy of an actual sticker with this fee from BMWNA on it and not on a dealer addendum. Thanks.

[Lassaxi]

Originally Posted by 0utlier

Just so there isn't questionable information out there. MACO is not some type of fancy name for dealer profit. It is paid to BMW NA by the dealer. The amount of this fee is based on the region your dealer is located in and varies between regions. Some regions don't have to pay MACO to BMW NA.

The fact that the money goes to BMW NA rather than the dealer does not make it legitimate. As far as I'm concerned, MACO is part of the dealer's cost of doing business, just like rent and payroll. I know I'm the only person in the world who sees it that way, which is fine.

If you are buying from a dealer who gets charged MACO, I suggest you consider that fee part of the invoice price, and adjust the amount over invoice that you are willing to pay.

[jwed335i]

Originally Posted by Lassaxi

The fact that the money goes to BMW NA rather than the dealer does not make it legitimate. As far as I'm concerned, MACO is part of the dealer's cost of doing business, just like rent and payroll. I know I'm the only person in the world who sees it that way, which is fine.

If you are buying from a dealer who gets charged MACO, I suggest you consider that fee part of the invoice price, and adjust the amount over invoice that you are willing to pay.

Actually I agree with you on the first part. Training and MACO are overhead as far as a business is concerned otherwise it would be on the Maroni sticker charged from BMWNA to the retail customer just like the $750 destination charge. To pass on $300-400 to the customer for a national ad that they probably have never seen is just plain crazy. I would rather pay a $200 fee for unlimited coffee and bagels while I wait for my car in service.

Just because BMWNA charges the dealer directly on each cars invoice (if that is the case) does not make the charge to the customer legitimate!

I would think that the purpose of the national ad is to increase business, right? If so you are charging your customers for your increase in business and profit that you have made from that increase.

Well, luckily I have never done business with a dealer that charges these fees and never will, Will.

[halfpast3]

Originally Posted by beefybmer

I have never seen this fee either so I am curious. Can someone show me a copy of an actual sticker with this fee from BMWNA on it and not on a dealer addendum. Thanks.

I have a copy of mine at home. I'll post it later for you.

[halfpast3]

Originally Posted by jwed335i

Actually I agree with you on the first part. Training and MACO are overhead as far as a business is concerned otherwise it would be on the Maroni sticker charged from BMWNA to the retail customer just like the $750 destination charge. To pass on $300-400 to the customer for a national ad that they probably have never seen is just plain crazy. I would rather pay a $200 fee for unlimited coffee and bagels while I wait for my car in service.

Just because BMWNA charges the dealer directly on each cars invoice (if that is the case) does not make the charge to the customer legitimate!

I would think that the purpose of the national ad is to increase business, right? If so you are charging your customers for your increase in business and profit that you have made from that increase.

Well, luckily I have never done business with a dealer that charges these fees and never will, Will.

Totally disagree with you. If a dealer was trying to charge you for THEIR own advertising that would absolutely fall into your category of "the cost of doing business". If the MANUFACTURER of a product charges X for a product, it is absolutely legitimate for the seller to charge the customer.

[jwed335i]

Originally Posted by halfpast3

Totally disagree with you. If a dealer was trying to charge you for THEIR own advertising that would absolutely fall into your category of "the cost of doing business". If the MANUFACTURER of a product charges X for a product, it is absolutely legitimate for the seller to charge the customer.

Is it not the same thing?

-The dealer pays the local TV or radio stations for advertising to bring in more customers and make more profit.
OR
-The dealer pays BMWNA for group ads to bring in more customers and make more profit.
OR
-The dealer pays 3 guys to detail the cars every 3 days to bring in more customers and make more profit.

It's the cost of doing business to make more money.

[halfpast3]

Originally Posted by jwed335i

Is it not the same thing?

-The dealer pays the local TV or radio stations for advertising to bring in more customers and make more profit.
OR
-The dealer pays BMWNA for group ads to bring in more customers and make more profit.
OR
-The dealer pays 3 guys to detail the cars every 3 days to bring in more customers and make more profit.

It's the cost of doing business to make more money.

To answer your question....No it is not the same thing.