[tony20009]

You quoted my point regarding the fact that there is some hope that the new leadership in Libya offers some hope of there being a more receptive force in that country than was the prior dictatorship of Qaddafi. Is what you offered supposed to be a rebuttal to that or is it just a rant?

Originally Posted by mob17

I find it amusing you think Africa harbours tyrants but the US are a helpful force! Because they did a great job with Afghanistan and Iraq didn't they. Don't you guys see why they put in Obama as a president? So the public would be more willing to trust him when going into Africa. This has all been planned and excecuted by the US Government.

I don't know what it is you find amusing about the African state of affairs. That is another mess that lingers following the European powers folly and imperialism of the 18th through 20th centuries.

Bold Text: You need more than an empty assertion. You just saying so hardly makes the case that what you've said is true or even has but a small dint of accuracy.

Originally Posted by mob17

...One of Obama's campaign promises was to close Guantanamo Bay. Does this really sound like a Government you can trust? Sounds like madmen and a tyrant to me.

It sounds like someone making a claim without fully understanding the implications of what he was saying. Mr. Obama didn't sit on either the Senate or House Intelligence committees, so it's highly unlikely he had much more awareness of what it would really take to accomplish that goal. Even so, the man has continued, even recently, to achieve his goal of closing that facility. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ention-center/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3438347.html
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/2...mo-bay-report/
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2...tention-center
So, yes, I do not see the fact that it's not yet closed as an indicator that President Obama lacks the integrity to deserve to be trusted. The fact is that some battles cannot be won.

...

Originally Posted by mob17

And don't even get me started on Israel. Obviously the US won't fuck with them because most of the US lobbyists/senators are Jewish. I find it quite ironic that the Jews who were tortured by the Nazis are now doing the same to the Palestinians.

You would do well not to start on Israel. To be sure, there is plenty of blame to go around regarding Israel/Palestine. That is probably the biggest political blunder of the past century and a very sound case can be made that more than anyone else, the Brits screwed up the most.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2481371.stm
http://souciant.com/2013/01/blame-it-on-britain/
Be that as it may, recriminations are of little use now. Physicists have yet to figure out how to turn back time, so the whole world must deal with the after effects.

Even not getting started on the Israel topic, there is one thing you should start to do. Get your facts straight. Ten of 100 US Senators are Jewish. Jews comprise less than 3% of the US population and lobbying isn't an industry in which they dominate.

Originally Posted by mob17

I also find it disgusting that nothing is being done about Guantanomo Bay and Palestine. I find it even more disgusting when people claim the US are a positive force in this world. They are simply parasites feeding on other countries, no matter what the consequences are. They cleverly use the mainstream media and propaganda to legitimise their actions.
...

Yet again you are making baseless claims. I don't have a problem with your holding any given point of view. Perhaps in your mind there is even something that substantiates your having those opinions. But Bob's not your uncle; empty assertions aren't sufficient to convince anyone that your view has merit.

If you are saying these things just to rant, fine; everyone is free to rant. But please do us a favor and don't try to pass off your rants s sound conclusions resulting from logical analysis.

[gangzoom]

It's all getting far too complicated for my little brain all I know is without the US the Procede tune/AR downpipes/Alfugen wheels on my car wouldn't exist

[phil200tdi]

Originally Posted by mob17

I find it amusing you think Africa harbours tyrants but the US are a helpful force! Because they did a great job with Afghanistan and Iraq didn't they. Don't you guys see why they put in Obama as a president? So the public would be more willing to trust him when going into Africa. This has all been planned and excecuted by the US Government.

Guantanomo Bay is one of the most ridiculous and illegal acts of the US, yet nothing is being done. Inmates are being held and tortured for decades. One of Obama's campaign promises was to close Guantanamo Bay. Does this really sound like a Government you can trust? Sounds like madmen and a tyrant to me.

Britain sold chemical weapons to Syria:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk...micals-2242520

This really does sound barbaric to me: http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile...14880d76b3e39c

http://www.theguardian.com/world/sho...emical-weapons

And don't even get me started on Israel. Obviously the US won't fuck with them because most of the US lobbyists/senators are Jewish. I find it quite ironic that the Jews who were tortured by the Nazis are now doing the same to the Palestinians.

I also find it disgusting that nothing is being done about Guantanomo Bay and Palestine. I find it even more disgusting when people claim the US are a positive force in this world. They are simply parasites feeding on other countries, no matter what the consequences are. They cleverly use the mainstream media (http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/...103349413.html) and propaganda to legitimise their actions.

It will only work up to a certain point and i'm sure one day the truth will come out and more people will see whats happening.

Your posts are becoming more paranoid and laced with racist under currents.

You might want to re read what you wrote here, it's ridiculous.

[phil200tdi]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

It's all getting far too complicated for my little brain all I know is without the US the Procede tune/AR downpipes/Alfugen wheels on my car wouldn't exist

Alufelgens are made in Italy if it helps you sleep at night!

[Cyprio]

Originally Posted by phil200tdi

Your posts are becoming more paranoid and laced with racist under currents.

You might want to re read what you wrote here, it's ridiculous.

This exactly!

Mob17 , The only message i'm hearing from you is anti US/UK rantings making me wonder what your background is!

The fact is you've been given the "Hitchslap" by Tony20009 - accept it and move on.

[mob17]

Haha you think my rants are racist? And what the hell has my background got to do with anything? Just because i hate our Government does not mean i hate my country. There's a big difference.

Anyways i've said what i've wanted to say. I know i'm not alone in this and there are countless people who think the same. If you think my views are silly then that's fine by me. I'm not here to try and convince you, just here to put a voice out.

Phil. Tell me what is ridiculous and what racist under currents are in my post please.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by mob17

...
Anyways i've said what i've wanted to say. I know i'm not alone in this and there are countless people who think the same. If you think my views are silly then that's fine by me. I'm not here to try and convince you, just here to put a voice out. ...

Red text: Okay, fine....as I suspected, you did just want to rant.

FWIW, and not to be insulting or mean, but the fact that other folks share your opinions gives them neither merit nor verity. That line of thinking is called "Argumentum ad numerum," and it is a fallaciousrationale for having any point of view. (http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html) For example, you will recall that at one point, everyone on the planet believed the sun circled Earth. Another classic example of an ad numerum argument can be found in one of the Roman Catholic Church's arguments for Jesus being the Son of God: so many people over the ages believe it to be so that it must be so, though they don't rely heavily upon that line of thinking.

[mob17]

One last word on this. Remember the proof of WMDs in Iraq?

I think we should just draw a line under all this and move on! Not helping anyone continuing back and forth.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by mob17

One last word on this. Remember the proof of WMDs in Iraq?

...

WTF does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

[mob17]

Originally Posted by tony20009

WTF does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Just a small thing called trust.

Like i've said there's no point continuing this debate it's just going to go on and on and on and i'm getting bored now.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by phil200tdi

Alufelgens are made in Italy if it helps you sleep at night!

Thats good to know

[Icekube]

Originally Posted by tony20009

WTF does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

i would say that it concerns the fact that there is no proof that Assad has used Chemical Weapons against his own people. even though your government would have everyone believe it was iron clad fact.

thus, like the "WMD in Iraq" giving the US basis for invading yet another country, on lies and deceit, only for years down the line them to shrug it off as bad intelligence?

[quattrogmbh]

There is just the small concern of which side do you punish...

Get it wrong and you just get a different band of nutters in charge.

I thought I respected the US in waiting for the UN inspector evidence, but now thats not forthcoming as quickly as they would like, suddenly they have "First Responder" evidence which confirms the presence of Sarin, but not of who delivered it.. To me, that degrades the credibility. If you say "we'll wait for independent evidence" wait for the damn independent evidence. Don't seed the media with your own story while you wait..

[mob17]

Well said lads.

Why striking Syria is illegal, immoral and dangerous: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...319670421.html

Guantanomo prison guards touching up prisoner's private parts whenever they leave their cells: http://www.aljazeera.com/humanrights...153946602.html

Amnesty International views: http://www2.amnesty.org.uk/blogs/cam...y-intervention
http://www.amnesty.org.uk/content.asp?CategoryID=10224

One BRITSH prisoner's story http://action.amnesty.org.uk/ea-acti...paign.id=21268

Are these ridiculous and racist views too? Looking forward to any random Latin sayings you may have to try and defend this Tony. Maybe "tangendo curculio bonum"?

[mob17]

For any other members who are thinking i'm racist and anti US: First of all someone can be "anti US Government" but not anti US. Getting accused of being anti US is the typical response you get from these patriotic people when you challenge what their Government is doing. And how dare anyone say i'm anti UK. I'm a proud British citizen and i'm glad we are following the proper Parliament ruling and saving our troops lives. People forget about the troops who actually go to war. I guess they are collateral too?

Secondly, i'm not the only one! Ron Paul, a former US representative has this to say http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/01/ro...vene-in-syria/

And more worrying the concept of a false flag: http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/09...-a-false-flag/

False flags. We will see more of these in the future people. Used solely to legitimise the US Government's actions and help them build their Empire.

Even some pentagon officials are against it! See here http://www.politico.com/politico44/2...ks-171520.html

Quick attack Ron Paul and those Pentagon officials, they're anti US!!

[simmo1985]

Originally Posted by mob17

For any other members who are thinking i'm racist and anti US: First of all someone can be "anti US Government" but not anti US. Getting accused of being anti US is the typical response you get from these patriotic people when you challenge what their Government is doing. And how dare anyone say i'm anti UK. I'm a proud British citizen and i'm glad we are following the proper Parliament ruling and saving our troops lives. People forget about the troops who actually go to war. I guess they are collateral too?

Secondly, i'm not the only one! Ron Paul, a former US representative has this to say http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/01/ro...vene-in-syria/

And more worrying the concept of a false flag: http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/09...-a-false-flag/

False flags. We will see more of these in the future people. Used solely to legitimise the US Government's actions and help them build their Empire.

Even some pentagon officials are against it! See here http://www.politico.com/politico44/2...ks-171520.html

Quick attack Ron Paul and those Pentagon officials, they're anti US!!

R u still going? WE GET YOUR POINT. Even if not everyone agrees with it, theres no need to rant on over and over. You come across like that Alex Jones lunatic. You have your opinion and bash everyone who doesn't agree. Give it a rest.

[mob17]

Originally Posted by simmo1985

R u still going? WE GET YOUR POINT. Even if not everyone agrees with it, theres no need to rant on over and over. You come across like that Alex Jones lunatic. You have your opinion and bash everyone who doesn't agree. Give it a rest.

Lol how am i ranting? Who have i bashed? Did i call anyone paranoid or accuse them of being a racist? Did i write any mini essays? If you have actually read the whole thread i have attempted to draw a line and move on.

Just because you don't like what i'm saying does not give you the right to tell me to basically shut up. I'm simply trying to help anyone reading this get an alternative opinion. If you can't handle that then i suggest you make proper counter arguments or don't read this? Seeing as this is A THREAD ON SYRIA i don't see the harm in continuing discussing Syria?

Anyways the White House made a 4 page report on the Syrian attacks. You can see it here: http://mashable.com/2013/08/30/white...emical-attack/

Basically it says they knew of the imminant chemical attack THREE days before if happened, and it was carried out from right by the people at the top of the regime. If this is true then they are guilty of not passing this info on to save lives and guilty of keeping quiet to use this as a false flag.

The Israeli version of the report says that they intercepted communications that indicates that lower level members of the Assad regime. This contradicts the report above.

[simmo1985]

I've actually been keeping up with thread since it started. So I've read all of yours and everyone else's posts on it. But your the only one who comes across like some mad conspiracy theorist. You can find articles to prove/disprove just about anything on the internet.

[mob17]

Originally Posted by simmo1985

I've actually been keeping up with thread since it started. So I've read all of yours and everyone else's posts on it. But your the only one who comes across like some mad conspiracy theorist. You can find articles to prove/disprove just about anything on the internet.

Thanks for your input.

By the way all articles i have posted are verified and if you can find anything to disprove them then be my guest.

[simmo1985]

Originally Posted by mob17

Thanks for your input.

Trust me. It was a pleasure

[mob17]

Originally Posted by simmo1985

Trust me. It was a pleasure

Wow you sound so mature mate.

[mob17]

I think i've said enough now. I'm obviously offending people and thats not something i set out to do. I just thought we could have an open debate about a serious issue.

Simmo you'll be glad to know "I'm out".