[John 070]

I haven't been following the car co. as of late, but I decided to follow an add that popped up for Infiniti. I take it the G is being discontinued, and the Q is its replacement?

No manuals on the sedan or coupe, just auto.

I guess I really have to hang on to my 5-spd 1998 Nissan.....

Even BMW seems to be following this trend, where it's often difficult to actually see a car with a clutch on the lots....

[dassub]

Bought my car CPO about 5 years ago. When I did a CPO inventory search, 80 cars came up in my province, and only 4 were manual (3 of them being 323i's which automatically went in the nope pile). Ended up buying the remaining manual!

[NoTempoLimitN54]

I've heard the "take rate" is around 3% in the U.S. (it's much higher in Germany, literally 75%). From what I remember, when I bought my E92 335i 6MT last July, there were 2 other 6MT E92 335i in California and about 15-18 in the entire U.S.

It is difficult to determine this on the BMW CPO website because the dealers are SO BAD at inputting the transmission type. It's like they're too stupid to know what a transmission is. I saw several automatics labeled as manual, and at least one manual labeled as automatic.

Add to that that the dealers B.S. with things like "the 6AT is faster because you can't shift that fast in 6MT" (BS) "the 6MT looses boost during shifts" (BS) and a majority end up believing it because they hear it so much.

Now that BMW is "not charging you extra" for the very advanced 8 speed ZF automatic, you are essentially paying a premium for the 6MT. That, coupled with the fact that the 8AT is actually slightly faster than the 6MT (has more gears, lower 1st & 2nd gear), I think the take rate will drop to near zero on the F30's.

I think our E9x are the last generation of 3 series with manual transmission in any quantity.

I will say that the 6MT in my E92 is the best manual transmission I have ever driven. It's a pleasure to drive, even in L.A.

[srezzo]

These types of posts coupled with reading so many articles talking about the dying manual saddens me. I did read on a website that Ford mentioned an uptick in manual sales due to parents wanting for force their teen drivers to not be distracted (texting, cellphones, etc). If teen drivers are busy shifting they won't be busy texting. As much as I want this to be true, I'm not seeing this trend. I've come to the realization that my 330xi may be my last manual and this won't be by my choice.

[Benstuck]

I was looking for a 6MT around July 2012 when my other car broke down and was too expensive to repair considering trade in value. I searched the bmw website and only found like 3 manuals, none of which had any of the options I wanted. So I bought an automatic, not my first choice, but I love her anyways.

[SwissCheeseHead]

This saddens me too. There's a reason why they use to be called "standards." Now AT is the standard. Not enough "drivers" in the US for a high MT demand. They're all drivers getting from point A to point B.

I have an 08 G37S and when i bought it used, there were only 1 in my state (WI). Everything else was AT. When I was looking for my 328iT, we could only find AT (even though MT) exists.

[kdbryce]

When buying my current car, my dealer told me there was only 1 other 6mt coupe with nav left in the whole country. It didn't have any of the other options I wanted so I had to order one.

It's kind of depressing when you think about it.

At least there's hope that the m3/4 will always be available in 6mt. Or at least for a few more generations.

[rr006rbc]

Yeah I got fed up w/ the 6MT inventory in the entire freaking UNITED STATES. So I ordered mine and got exactly what I wanted on it and in it. Took 2 very aggravating months to arrive but well worth it as soon as I got to drive it home after PDI.

[Myrder]

I was looking for 09 CTS-Vs in tandem when searching 335i's. Surprisingly found my current car down the street. Anyway, I only wanted manual and performance orientated with a decent aftermarket. The choices get very limited.

But the 6MT in this car is alright, definitely no T56 behind the LS1 I still miss dearly. That transmission was amazing.

[Mardio]

Auto makers are designing cars now to make life easier for people, electronic steering, AT transmissions etc...

[AllBlackBimmer]

I live in PA and wanted a black, 4 door, manual... not asking too much...


Well 2 BMW dealers, 2 months of searching, and finally looking at BMW's website for all US CPO cars.. i found a grand total of 2 at the time that were 4 door sedans, black, with 6MT... one in AZ and one in FL...

So after some overnighted paperwork and a $600 shipping fee later.. I had my 6MT car.

is definitely a challenge. I hope to move to a MT M3 at some point in the next 2-3 years and then keep that car for a very, very, long time....


When I think of MT cars, my mind goes to the "Fast and furious" days... yes, I was about 16 when the movie came out and those cars were all the rage (27 now)... you could get nissans, hondas, acuras, VWs, mitsubishis, subaru's and those kinds of cars all in MT... now, as those old "ricers" fade away, the newer models do not offer as many tranmission choices.

and with the DCT technology being "faster" and more consistant, than manual, even the high end cars and losing the stick and clutch.

really is a shame... the "Art" of driving is dying, and people are just in a rush now.

[whoisthat]

When I ordered my 335is (last May-ish) the dealer said that I was one for 3 others total in the US who opted out of the DCT and ordered a 6MT 2013 'is'.

Yikes!

[Transport3r]

Originally Posted by NoTempoLimitN54

It is difficult to determine this on the BMW CPO website because the dealers are SO BAD at inputting the transmission type.

I hear ya, and then they act like a shiftable automatic is what we want.

Add to that that the dealers B.S. with things like "the 6AT is faster because you can't shift that fast in 6MT" (BS) "the 6MT looses boost during shifts" (BS) and a majority end up believing it because they hear it so much.

These two are actually true. The 6AT in this generation cars is VERY good, and autos are programmed to not open the DV's when shifting under high load, thus keeping the CP under pressure. Same reason auto surpas are so damn fast. Look at the drag strip times, the autos are faster. Doesn't mean they're as much fun to drive though...

[miringrains]

Auto is definitely faster, however it cannot handle the power that MT can. At any rate my opinion is that AT is just steering a car, while MT is actually driving it

[krhodes1]

I prefer driving manuals in general, out of my five cars the only automatic is an '01 Range Rover. But on the other hand the 8spd auto works so well with the diesel in the 328d. Luckily at this point the fact that the 328d wagon is also AWD-only makes it easy to say no to ordering one, but we will see what the LCI brings in a couple years or so. I have no use at all for AWD in a BMW.

I had no problem finding my car, BTO and Euro Delivery for the win! Only way to go.

[MaineBMW335ie92]

It's the death of the manual (human error) transmission. Logically and statistically the manual transmission has 1 flaw: the human input component. From riding the clutch, missing/grinding gears, and the comparison between an average humans shift time; which is obliterated by an automatic-manual transmission (paddles).

[NoTempoLimitN54]

NoTempoLimitN54: Add to that that the dealers B.S. with things like "the 6AT is faster because you can't shift that fast in 6MT" (BS) "the 6MT looses boost during shifts" (BS) and a majority end up believing it because they hear it so much.

Originally Posted by Transport3r

These two are actually true. The 6AT in this generation cars is VERY good, and autos are programmed to not open the DV's when shifting under high load, thus keeping the CP under pressure. Same reason auto surpas are so damn fast. Look at the drag strip times, the autos are faster. Doesn't mean they're as much fun to drive though...

Here we go again... No disrespect but what's your source for the above info? Mine is BMW engineers in a SAE Technical Paper (see below).

BOOST PRESSURE AFTER GEAR SHIFT
The potential of software functions to optimize the response of the car can be shown with the following example: After a gear shift with a manual transmission the boost pressure is normally low. In order to realize a high torque as soon as possible after the gear shift it is necessary to increase the boost pressure quickly. The decrease in boost pressure however is caused by the driver, who has not torque demand during a gear shift. So a software function has been developed which is not closing the throttle valve during a short gear shift but decreases the torque of the engine by shifting the ignition time. So the mass flow through the turbine is still high even if the driver is changing the gear. This leads to a much better torque right after the gear shift, because the turbines are only loosing a small part of their energy. The effect of this software function is shown in fig. 9.

SAE Technical Paper Series 2007-01-1560
BMW High Precision Fuel Injection Conjunction with Twin-Turbo Technology: a Combination for Maximum Dynamic and High Fuel Efficiency
Cristoph Luttermann and Werner Mährle
BMW Group

[John 070]

The other night my uncle goes, how many times have your replaced the clutch on this car, just once, right? Actually, never replaced it and the Nissan has 223k. I really feel that not only is the manual more fun to drive, there is no 2-6k repair that's a given when you reach a certain mileage.

I was just very surprised that for an Infiniti, there was no manual in coupe or sedan. The G35S in 2007 was supposed to be a 3 fighter.

[Ghoste90]

this topic makes me

[Transport3r]

Originally Posted by NoTempoLimitN54

Here we go again... No disrespect but what's your source for the above info? Mine is BMW engineers in a SAE Technical Paper (see below).

Impressive research work. Though BMW doesn't use this technology at full capacity in their production models, from experimental datalogs can be seen that the throttle plate does actually close partially on both drivetrains (hence the boost spike during the shift), but the auto closes it much less evidenced by the lower pressure drop post shift. Please see the attached RPM & Boost pressure over time graphs (sorry for no axes, working with ms paint here). Note that the shift times are very similar too.

[derrick603]

It's unfortunate, but there simply isn't enough demand for these kinds of cars in manual to justify the extra expense of producing them for the US market. On a positive note, I've heard that the MT take rate on C7 Corvettes is around 40%, so there is at least some hope that not every enthusiast-oriented car will go AT or DCT-only.

[Transport3r]

Originally Posted by derrick603

On a positive note, I've heard that the MT take rate on C7 Corvettes is around 40%, so there is at least some hope that not every enthusiast-oriented car will go AT or DCT-only.

Yes, and that new corvette is finally a proper sports car! I'm looking very much forward towards driving one!