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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Cosmetic and Lighting Modifications (exterior/interior) > putting on painted reflectors? illegal!!!



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      01-04-2009, 03:31 PM   #45
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      08-25-2010, 03:04 PM   #46
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Where can I get color matching vinyl overlay for the reflectors?
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      08-25-2010, 03:05 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZ_TUR90 View Post
if you have an e92 dont paint the reflectors and get color matching vinyl overlay, and when you get hit pull it off! Same for e90s that have the amber overlay!!!
Where can I get these?
Thanks
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      08-25-2010, 03:06 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iatacs19 View Post
Yeah, not only will your insurance not cover it. State Farm and Nationwide are aware of this and will contact BMWNA to have part of your warranty voided.
How do you know this about state farm their my insurance and i want to do this I just dont want to regret it.
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      08-25-2010, 03:34 PM   #49
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wait.....painted reflectors are illegal, void your warranty, and cause you to lose insurance??? Sh!t
It's a good thing all my other mods are legal, dealer friendly, and my insurance loves them
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      08-25-2010, 03:44 PM   #50
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Regardless of what state law specifies, reflectors and lights are mandated by FMVSS 108 (lighting) which requires amber lights and reflectors in the front and red in the rear. States can add requirements but they cannot "dumb down" a Federal requirement. They can decide if they want to enforce it though.

In theory, a cop could stop and ticket you for this. In theory they could tow your car (unsafe or missing equipment.) Also, in theory, you could be found at fault for an accident if the reflectors and/or lights were missing.

There is, however, a good possibility that you will fail inspection. While these are mandated by Federal law, the enforcement is left to the states and some states check for sidemarkers while others don't. As a general rule, PA tends to check for sidemarkers and they seem to be the state most frequently mentioned for failing cars for sidemarkers - wheras CA is known for failing cars for "loud" exhausts or extreme lowering.

Only you can decide if removing sidemarkers will cause you trouble in your jurisdiction - nobody else can make that decision for you since what is OK in Pomona might not be OK in Compton. Hell, for some violations it might change based on police substation.

I applaud the OP for asking the question. He is now a bit more informed and can decide what he wants to do.
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      08-25-2010, 03:46 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.335iCoupe View Post
does this only apply to cars that come with amber reflectors stock? My highlander does not have reflectors, at least not that I know of..
Your Highlander has reflectors and lamps. At least it did when it left the factory (assuming it was built to US specs)
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      08-25-2010, 03:48 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simp0man View Post
Well said. I am always for it against the man and stupid things they make illegal here in US that is not elsewhere in the world.
You know what's funny. In Germany the sidemarkers are illegal - and the guys on the German boards are clamoring for US bumpers with the sidemarkers.

If it is different it is better.
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      08-25-2010, 03:54 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ForAll View Post
wait.....painted reflectors are illegal, void your warranty, and cause you to lose insurance??? Sh!t
It's a good thing all my other mods are legal, dealer friendly, and my insurance loves them
Removing sidemarkers could void your warranty.

On VWVortex a few years back, there was a fellow who painted his sidemarker bulbs silver. A few weeks later he started getting electrical gremlins and "bulb out" warnings (for other bulbs)

It turned out that the hot bulbs melted the paint. The hot paint melted his bulb holders and shorted out his system. since his new Jetta had a CAN-BUS, he had to replace the entire harness to the tune of $2500.

Every mod has an unintended consequence. While you might laugh at me for pointing out these possible pitfalls, you can really only make an educated decision about a possible mod if you have all the facts. Once educated, it is up to you to decide what to do.

The Jetta owner wished that somebody had told him of the possible consequences.
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      08-25-2010, 10:50 PM   #54
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yup it is illegal but makes a big difference
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      08-25-2010, 11:18 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGP View Post
My BS meter is reading off the scale.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cb1111 View Post


There is, however, a good possibility that you will fail inspection. While these are mandated by Federal law, the enforcement is left to the states and some states check for sidemarkers while others don't. As a general rule, PA tends to check for sidemarkers and they seem to be the state most frequently mentioned for failing cars for sidemarkers - wheras CA is known for failing cars for "loud" exhausts or extreme lowering.
Seriously? Well, it was terrible getting those ambers off... and now I gotta put them back on?
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      08-26-2010, 07:54 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brey335i View Post
Seriously? Well, it was terrible getting those ambers off... and now I gotta put them back on?
Depends. Does TX check for reflectors? I don't even think they to see if you have headlights.
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      08-26-2010, 10:34 AM   #57
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I've had the painted reflectors for over a year, and had the car inspected with them at the dealership here. No issues. I looked at my wife's Altima and there are no "body" reflectors, just the amber turn signals at the front that wrap around the side of the fender. I then looked at my own wraparound lights and noted the amber bulb which is lit when the lights are on and visible from the side of the car. E90s have an amber-colored section in the headlight units that wrap around, and I believe that's reflective, too. I say it'd be a tough argument to say those reflectors are required and that the amber light isn't sufficient.

And here in Texas, they check everything, including emissions, which leads me to wonder how the "catless DP" guys are getting away with it, unless they swap the stock units back in for inspection. As far as that idiot who actually painted his bulbs, his stupidity earned him what he got, especially dealing with VW. I had a run-in with them in 2001 and they are so anal that they actually would deny warrantly claims for window lifts if the owner had installed aftermarket tint film "which could peel off and interfere with the window mechanism".

I have State Farm insurance (35+ years now), and I'd like to know specifically what part of my warranty they can tell BMWNA to void because I no longer have the amber reflectors (6" below my amber turn signals). What is in the warranty that is related to reflectors? Can we get a specific answer on that or can we call BS on this one?

So here's a reverse-twist on getting painted vinyl overlays for the reflectors: Get some orange/amber reflective tape and put it on your painted reflectors if you run into problems...that way you can peel it off after whatever horrendous trouble you get into blows over.
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Last edited by RoundelM3; 08-26-2010 at 10:45 AM..
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      08-26-2010, 11:00 AM   #58
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Here you go - From FMVSS 108

S5.1.1.8 For each motor vehicle less than 30 feet in overall
length, the photometric minimum candlepower requirements for side marker
lamps specified in SAE Standard J592e Clearance, Side Marker, and
Identification Lamps, July 1972, may be met for all inboard test points
at a distance of 15 feet from the vehicle and on a vertical plane that
is perpendicular to the longitudinal axis of the vehicle and located
midway between the front and rear side marker lamps.

S5.5.7 On each passenger car and motorcycle, and on each
multipurpose passenger vehicle, truck, and bus of less than 80 inches
overall width:
(a) When the parking lamps are activated, the taillamps, license
plate lamps, and side marker lamps shall also be activated; and
(b) When the headlamps are activated in a steady-burning state, the
tail lamps, parking lamps, license plate lamps and side marker lamps
shall also be activated.


Table I--Required Motor Vehicle Lighting Equipment Other Than Headlamps
Multipurpose Passenger Vehicles, Trucks, Trailers, and Buses, of 80 or More Inches Overall Width
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Applicable SAE standard or Multipurpose passenger

Side marker lamps.................. 2 red; 2 amber............. 2 red; 2 amber........ J592e, July 1972.
Reflex reflectors................. On the rear--1 red on each On the rear--1 red on each

On each side--1 red as far On each side--1 red as far
to the rear as to the rear as
practicable, and 1 amber practicable, and 1 amber
as far to the front as as far to the front as
practicable. practicable.
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      08-26-2010, 11:33 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ender514 View Post
maybe. the problem is a lot of these gas stations dont have the machines to do all the testing themselves so they take the car somewhere else.

heres my experience with PA inspection. one time with a previous car, i had a CAI in it. they passed me as a favor but they said next time they wont pass me with a CAI in the car. i've also had to change the bulbs and reflectors with previous cars from clear back to orange everytime i take it for inspection. the one time with my G35 i forgot, and the dealer charged me for new orange bulbs or they couldnt pass me. with my G, it was easy to change the reflectors....they just popped in and out. with the 335, its doesnt seem as easy. so i was just wondering what you guys did. if people do change them out once a year for inspection.
If the dealer gives me a hard time about my painted reflectors for PA inspection i'm just going to duct tape the OEM ones over the painted ones and see what they say about that lol

I don't anticipate any problems with the reflectors - bulbs, however, I can understand. The PA vehicle code is very specific about the colors of front/rear bulbs.
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      08-26-2010, 03:21 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkr335 View Post
If the dealer gives me a hard time about my painted reflectors for PA inspection i'm just going to duct tape the OEM ones over the painted ones and see what they say about that lol

I don't anticipate any problems with the reflectors - bulbs, however, I can understand. The PA vehicle code is very specific about the colors of front/rear bulbs.
You mean even if they are "stealth" bulbs and appear silver when off but glow orange when powered on? What kinda bureaucratic BS is that?
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      08-26-2010, 03:31 PM   #61
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looks ugly, but i keep it on so that when i pull out of the driveway head first, crazy speeders will see me and hopefully wont hit me....
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      08-26-2010, 06:13 PM   #62
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I heard this somewhere else recently. I think it would be extremely difficult for someone to blame an accident on reflectors. For inspection (my car is still registered in PA), I think putting reflective tape over it should work fine haha

A few of you said that this could "void that part of your warranty". Oh really?? I'm just curious as to what kind of reflector warranty there is? It doesn't affect a single other part of the car....
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      08-26-2010, 08:41 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
You mean even if they are "stealth" bulbs and appear silver when off but glow orange when powered on? What kinda bureaucratic BS is that?
Hate to be the legal nazi again, but the color "amber" is defined by SAE ans "silver bulbs" that glow amber do not meet that definition.

IF your state enforces the sidemarker rule during periodic inspection then there is a good chance that they'll enforce it to the letter.

Accept it and move on. Moaning about it here won't make the requirement go away.

Just like the TREAD Act was the result of the Ford Explorer/Firestone fiasco and the Audi 5000 was the cause of starter interlocks, a few particularly horrific crashes in the mid 60's were the reason behind requiring sidemarkers as of 1968.

Society regulates to the lowest common denominator. We'll be stuck with these rules until Darwin kicks in and rids us of fools.
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      08-26-2010, 08:44 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shieldze1025 View Post
...A few of you said that this could "void that part of your warranty". Oh really?? I'm just curious as to what kind of reflector warranty there is? It doesn't affect a single other part of the car....
Some people have done some pretty stupid things when removing sidemarker. Some have removed the bulbs and then had "bulb out" messages while others have jerry rigged resistors to simulate bulbs. If those antics result in a failure then the dealer will refuse warranty service on that failure.
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      08-27-2010, 02:39 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb1111 View Post
Some people have done some pretty stupid things when removing sidemarker. Some have removed the bulbs and then had "bulb out" messages while others have jerry rigged resistors to simulate bulbs. If those antics result in a failure then the dealer will refuse warranty service on that failure.
Oh yea I completely agree with that, but this was about the reflector on the wheel well... which has no bulbs in it at all.
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      08-27-2010, 04:40 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb1111 View Post
Hate to be the legal nazi again, but the color "amber" is defined by SAE ans "silver bulbs" that glow amber do not meet that definition.

IF your state enforces the sidemarker rule during periodic inspection then there is a good chance that they'll enforce it to the letter.

Accept it and move on. Moaning about it here won't make the requirement go away.

Just like the TREAD Act was the result of the Ford Explorer/Firestone fiasco and the Audi 5000 was the cause of starter interlocks, a few particularly horrific crashes in the mid 60's were the reason behind requiring sidemarkers as of 1968.

Society regulates to the lowest common denominator. We'll be stuck with these rules until Darwin kicks in and rids us of fools.
Which is why I'm glad I live in Texas, where they interpret bulb color by what it is when it's lit up...and they don't quibble about painted reflectors.
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