[GTR-Dad]

Originally Posted by 808AWD325xi

The AWD system is an aid in the snow and rain. With an upgraded suspension and near neutral steering, it's a force to reckoned with in twisties as well as in a straight line. The only downside that I see is the additional horsepower needed to overcome the extra weight...the E90 XI being the epitome of this. I have yet to encounter another car at the track (including other AWD cars) that can launch like an XI...

I drive both a 500 whp R32 Skyline GT-R and suspension-only modded 335 with xDrive. Both are inline 6 twin turbo AWD cars and could not be more different. Not to take anything away from the 335 - it's actually pretty good on the track - but the Skyline was purpose built for racing.

Skyline for motorsports - BMW for sport touring IMO.

Cheers,
Dan

[issabmw]

Originally Posted by GTR-Dad

I drive both a 500 whp R32 Skyline GT-R and suspension-only modded 335 with xDrive. Both are inline 6 twin turbo AWD cars and could not be more different. Not to take anything away from the 335 - it's actually pretty good on the track - but the Skyline was purpose built for racing.

Skyline for motorsports - BMW for sport touring IMO.

Cheers,
Dan

+1 exactly, take it from those who own or have experienced both, they are two different systems, with the BMW primarily being a safety/stability variant that can be used for tracking, dont get me wrong, yet the Skyline is designed with the track in mind, as a focal point.

The Bimmer AWD, like their cars, is a well rounded system that can do most things brilliantly.

[issabmw]

The Bimmer also handles rain extremely well IMO

[rummy]

I'm in Chicago, and I'm also choosing between the i and the xi. I am planning on getting snow set for the winter whichever way I decide to go. From what I read, it seems like the xi suspension isn't so great right out of the box?

[GTR-Dad]

Originally Posted by rummy

From what I read, it seems like the xi suspension isn't so great right out of the box?

My second hand 06 330xi had brilliant suspension, but my 09 335i xDrive was soft, wallowy, and had a ton of body roll by comparison. (It still out handled most of the cars on the road, just didn't measure up to my expectations based on the 330 experience.)

Dan

[Nikolas]

For those running Dunlop M3's - these are performance snow tires, so they typically work OK for one season. For much better traction and braking ability go with true snow tires (typically Q rated) or studs. Their performance in snow and ice is remarkable.

[Dutchwonder19]

I live in Grand Rapids MI, about 30 min. from Lake Michigan. We get DUMPED on every winter with Lake Effect snow. Our 330xi is so phenomenal in this stuff, my wife prefers to drive it in the winter. I've always had RWD trucks, so I'm a rather experienced winter driver. However, this lil XI is a BLAST in the wintertime. I would def. recommend an XI to anyone who is wondering, and live in a snowglobe 6 months of the year.

[Altima]

Originally Posted by GmanJeff

BMW's own web pages reflects faster 0-60 times for the xi over RWD (.2 seconds for the automatic transmission model). If 0-60 times are important for the type of driving you do, in either wet or dry conditions, that data point may be useful.

This is marketing... They make profit on selling a car with more expensive options, even if they can be a disadvantage.

1/4 mile - there is no way the awd one would win.

[Altima]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

He didn't say anything about 1/4 mile times. His point was the added traction of AWD results in a faster 0-60 time which for street driving is of more interest than 1/4 mile ets. That's in the dry. In the wet with RWD you're just spinning your wheels.

335i vs 335i Xdrive-
I didn't say he said anything about the 1/4 time. BMW's website itself only claims a .1 second difference... IMO this would easily be overcome by wider rear tires, or a REAL LSD. Maybe the temperature was cooler on the day of the xDrive test? Besides, is .1 second really worth 221 extra lbs, 3% more weight on the front axle, 3 highway MPG's, slower top end, slower rolling start/highway acceleration, worse handling, lower durability, having to replace 4 tires at once, more understeer?

Rain-
My G37S Coupe does NOT simply spin wheels in the rain. I accelerate medium out of the hole, and smoothly floor it once the weight transfers to the rear (less than one second), and it doesn't spin wheels at all. Keep the shifts smooth and it's fine. In fact, my G37S is better than my FWD Altima in the rain when driven hard - WAY better. BMW's have better weight distribution than my car does too.. mine is about 53/47, RWD BMW's are almost perfect.

Watch how both FR cars beat the EVO badly in a torrential downpour. Watch how it understeers right off the track multiple times while trying to keep up.

C&D Did test a .1 or .2 second quicker time for the xDrive 335, but they even said themselves the 335i is a better all around performer, and has better handling. And like I said before, with a real LSD, or better rear tires - the RWD wins.

It's one thing if you live where it snows for months on end, but most of the USA does not. Open differentials are the only reason your RWD bmw's set off the traction control all the time - this is how they got away with not using a real LSD. Why sacrifice gas mileage and better handling 360 days per year for 5 days per year of snow when you can easily stay at home and VPN into work anyway? (If your boss isn't a close minded idiot anyway) Besides, RWD car are not bad in the snow anyway unless you are a victim of marketing or simply do not know how to drive.

[Pascal]

I don't know if every country does it but here BMW France organises the Xdrive Tour every winter.
They move in various skiing resorts to give people the opportunity to drive their AWD models.
This is the chance to make yourself an opinion on how the cars handle in the snow and on ice tracks
This experience convinced me to buy my Xdrive and I would not change for a RWD now.

Last year, I've been lucky to drive the X6 xDrive50i (V8 TwinPower Turbo 407hps) and overwhelming car that I could not afford but I still had a try.
Anyway, this is what the BMW Xdrive tour looks like:

BMW xDrive Tour 2010 in Courchevel

[woodpecka]

Come in Montreal during winter, you will not need ski resort to drive in the snow and speak french!

[mashimarho]

So.... I'm thinking I'm going to go with a " i " and not get the xi. I'm gonna wing it and throw winter tires on.. Good idea?

[BoostLover99]

It's really a personal decision. The advantages to both are numerous - it's a bit like faith.

The non-believers will always try to convince the believers and vice versa. This thread has some pretty decent information RE the pros and cons of both.

Personally, I will never own another vehicle w/o AWD. I just like it that much more - inclement or good weather. The penalty of weight, fuel economy, and tire replacement are worth the gain in putting every last foot pound to the ground (assuming of course LSDs are in place on both RWD and AWD versions).

I take it you've driven both, right? If you haven't, you really should before making a choice. You might also want to try pushing each car toward its limits in wet or snowy conditions and seeing how you feel about it after.

[mattlam]

In the summer... u hate it...

I just know the xi save my life several times when I get out of the snowy ramps...

[BoostLover99]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Never hated AWD. It's great in Summer, Winter on street or track, wet or dry.

x2. More fun in the summer w/ sticky tires and LSDs. There is *nothing* like giving the evo gas at the apex and having the tires grip like a cat digging its claws into carpet.

It feels like the car breaks the laws of physics (it doesn't obviously) and the feeling is unreal.

[tomz17]

Weather aside, there are some real tangible cons to an xdrive BMW
- tire clearance
- ride quality
- worse handling
- less options/mods, etc.
- heavier

There are also some minor advantages
- Faster acceleration (from a dead stop)

As for weather :

The important thing to remember is that AWD cannot repeal the laws of physics. It will ONLY help you with positive acceleration. It will *NOT* help you stop or corner ( * unless you are trying to put massive power down in a corner, which is fun, but outside the realm of "safe winter driving").

So the real question you need to ask yourself is whether a 335i + snow tires will be sufficient for your location. A 335i + dedicated snow tires (blizzaks, nokians, etc) will perform substantially better than a 335xi with stock tires.

[BRAISKI]

Lol

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/225431..._vs_hummer_h1/

Audi vs All
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-EyK...drive_systems/

[IN54NITY]

I'd love to challenge you on the track, keep all your mods, I'll just use the KWs.

Have you driven an xi, or are you trolling? Yep, we're all biased but yours comes off arrogantly, some of your "points" are just wrong.

Originally Posted by tomz17

Weather aside, there are some real tangible cons to an xdrive BMW
- tire clearance
- ride quality
- worse handling
- less options/mods, etc.
- heavier

There are also some minor advantages
- Faster acceleration (from a dead stop)

As for weather :

The important thing to remember is that AWD cannot repeal the laws of physics. It will ONLY help you with positive acceleration. It will *NOT* help you stop or corner ( * unless you are trying to put massive power down in a corner, which is fun, but outside the realm of "safe winter driving").

So the real question you need to ask yourself is whether a 335i + snow tires will be sufficient for your location. A 335i + dedicated snow tires (blizzaks, nokians, etc) will perform substantially better than a 335xi with stock tires.

[blauner335]

Originally Posted by tomz17

A 335i + dedicated snow tires (blizzaks, nokians, etc) will perform substantially better than a 335xi with stock tires.

I always think its funny when the RWD crowd says a 335i with snows will always outperform a 335xi with all seasons. Lets look at 'physics.'

A snow tire will give you a 25-50% increase in winter traction over all-seasons. Thats a fact, look it up. Therefore, lets take the best case scenario of 50% more traction and the fact that you have only 2 tires trying to push you along.

2 winter tires = 3 all season tires @ 50%. With an AWD, you still essentially have 1 more all season tire helping get you along.

Where I am from, it is hilly. I would easily take an AWD + all-seasons over a RWD/FWD with winters. Yes, I know that winter tires will help you stop better and turn better most of the time, and I respect that, but there is no way it will help you get up a hill any better over AWD + all-seasons, in fact it will be worse. And there are times in turns where you want that power being put down in the front wheels as well to help you stay pointed in the direction you are going. If it is flat where you live, then a 335i with snows should be fine, unless you get like 500" of snow a year, but I am not going to take the chance of getting stuck on a hill around here with a RWD car.

Or you could just be an absolute tank in the winter and combine the best of both worlds with winters and AWD.

But you are right when you say you have to determine if a 335xi + snows is sufficient for your location, because a 335i + winter tires is still one hell of a car.

[BRAISKI]

Originally Posted by aleckzandr

I'd love to challenge you on the track, keep all your mods, I'll just use the KWs.

Have you driven an xi, or are you trolling? Yep, we're all biased but yours comes off arrogantly, some of your "points" are just wrong.

Esp the tire clearance WTF is that! If you don't get the sport package tire clearance is up there. Even with ppl that has the sport package they still change their suspension! So needless to say this applies to xi as well

Less mods, I don't know about that since whatever the "i" has the "xi" has.

Thats a comment from the a person who thinks RWD is superior AWD without enough facts.

[IN54NITY]

Originally Posted by BRAISKI

Esp the tire clearance WTF is that! If you don't get the sport package tire clearance is up there. Even with ppl that has the sport package they still change their suspension! So needless to say this applies to xi as well

Less mods, I don't know about that since whatever the "i" has the "xi" has.

Thats a comment from the a person who thinks RWD is superior AWD without enough facts.

Agreed. I think there are less DP options for xi, but big deal. Handling and ride quality: Neglible differences between the two for day to day driving, even canyoneering. On the track, I'm starting to dig the xi (pun intended), the car is simply awesome accelerating out of slower turns (the ones where one appreciates having LSD in the "i"), just be aware of more "push" (yes, understeer) in late apex (especially really really late apex) turns.

Then there's this guy:

Originally Posted by Altima

Watch how both FR cars beat the EVO badly in a torrential downpour. Watch how it understeers right off the track multiple times while trying to keep up.

I'll save the time and agony of those who haven't watched this boring video and tell you the EVO suffered an ABS failure, it didn't just "understeer right off the track". And until you drive both ~335i~ and ~335xi~, and not rehash some sh!t off C&D, which probably half this forum's members read anyways, STFU and GTFO. I dont care how your FWD compares to your (FR) RWD in the rain, without mentioning tires, besides it's comparing two completely different class of cars.

Why do posters on this forum talk about how bad understeer is on the xi model, and then buy 19" wheels and put 275s on back of their "i"? I think more is in order.