[wren57]

Please only post in here if you have had both or have a question. We don't need any "I have the X tune and it's awesome!" comments because they aren't helpful. Nor do we need another tuner war. What we need is one place to compile all opinions. Please be honest and only vote in the poll if you have had both the jb3 and the procede.

[Clap135]

I've had both, and perfer the procede.
Its smoother, more stable, and imo safer.
The MT bog is gone, the car runs extremly fast for what is done to it. 12.3@116 with dci/meth/procede on regular street tires.

[BrianMN]

What is good "Scientific" data.

Dynos aren't good...as they mostly come down to how much boost you wanna push. For example, I chose to run ~19psi and got 422hp...16hp I would've been around 380ish, etc. regardless of the tune.

1/4 miles are equally inconclusive. So far, no body has swapped tunes on a drag day and posted results. (That I know of) That still would only show how each tune handles one target, WOT.

With all of these max-power related 'evidence', nothing can really be traced back to the quality and sophistication of each tune.

The only way I know of to measure 'quality' of a tune is to try both and see how they feel. And that is far from scientific.

[jaxxx]

its more subjective

[Bavarian E92]

i would like to see this thread continue. I seems like it would be helpful to many

[wren57]

Originally Posted by Clap135

I've had both, and perfer the procede.
Its smoother, more stable, and imo safer.
The MT bog is gone, the car runs extremly fast for what is done to it. 12.3@116 with dci/meth/procede on regular street tires.

Thanks for the helpful input.

Originally Posted by BrianMN

What is good "Scientific" data...

I put "scientific" in quotation marks on purpose.

Originally Posted by jaxxx

its more subjective

Obviously... hence the word "prefer".

Originally Posted by Bavarian E92

i would like to see this thread continue. I seems like it would be helpful to many

Me too.

[Ilma]

I switched from JB3 to Procede and found the Procede to have far better day to day driveability.

Hell.....I gave Mike a test drive in my car about a year ago and even he was kind of shaking his head up and down in reaction to the smooth bottom end. But we both agreed that JB still was top end king.

However, with these new 6AT maps having less boost taper up top, that may change things soon.

But since I don't track my car, superior throttle feel and daily driveability are my main criteria.

Either tune has plenty of power to get you into trouble real fast.

JB has caught up to some degree with the introduction of real time datalogging, but I still find the Procede to be better in this regard.

You have all the data in one place including timing curves which are a really good measure of whether your engine is happy. If I'm not mistaken, I think JB users still have to log timing with the BT tool.

Anyways....no war here. To each their own. I'm just glad I tried both.

Made the decision a lot easier.

[DJKhan85]

I'm interested in the outcome of this thread and it's "trends" as well. I am getting the last piece of my car puzzle together before going for power. Procede, GIAC and in a distant 3rd is the JB3 on my short list. But if people prefer the JB3, I'd move it up on the list to at least try it out instead of casting it away.

Please keep this thread civil.

[k726]

All tunes potentially do the exact same thing and manipulate the dme the exact same way. All tunes are pretty customizable. Depending on how far you will mod or what extra "perks" you want/will use is the only difference. In a few months JB and PROcede will be identical. If you are just looking for a tune only and no bolt ons go GIAC. AA just came out with a flash also. Check them out. It's pretty cheap. You will have to call in.

[NiVeDh]

I think this is a good thread. I had the JB3 and I switched to the PROcede and like it more - it's smoother even though it feels less powerful.

[k726]

The only reason I recommend flashes only if you aren't doing further mods is because of the inconvenience of going in again. The flashes can be made to support further modding. Flashes are theoretically the best way to go. Instead of the DME being tricked, the DME is programmed to do exactly what a piggyback would have to alter the DME. Less communication time faster response faster ET. Most flashes are more conservative and safer.

[FotiosF90M5]

The jb3 is a good tune, especially for the money. I think the procede is in another league though. No comparison for me. The procede is better in every aspect and is just an amazingly imressive and capable tune. The features and smoothness has no rival IMHO.

[BrianMN]

Originally Posted by k726

All tunes potentially do the exact same thing and manipulate the dme the exact same way. All tunes are pretty customizable. Depending on how far you will mod or what extra "perks" you want/will use is the only difference. In a few months JB and PROcede will be identical. If you are just looking for a tune only and no bolt ons go GIAC. AA just came out with a flash also. Check them out. It's pretty cheap. You will have to call in.

See, this is very far from true... and because of that it ultimately forced me to switch to Procede. Maybe JB3 will catch up in coming months...but the fact that Vishnu has accomplished and mastered it a long time ago does count for something. As people say (sometimes seemingly rude), all other tunes are trying to catch up to the Procede...kinda hard when Vishnu comes out with new features/capabilities weekly, haha.


Timing control/correction/monitoring was very important to me once I had all the supporting mods...and the fact the JB3 didn't have that made me a bit uncomfortable when pushing high maps/hp.

Once I got the PROcede, it made the car a totally different beast. Driveability is 10x better, with way more useable and clean power. I now look at some JB3 dyno graphs (including my own) and really feel bad for that engine... Take a look at some and look at how sperradic/wavy/unstable it is. Also, the Torque curve is much longer and smoother with the PROcede.

I didn't have the shift bog with the JB, so I can't say anything regarding that.

In summary, both tunes will yeild the same power with a single WOT target or 1/4 run pass. The difference is in everyday accelerating. It makes me smile almost every day.

This is coming from someone who used to defend the JB3... until I actually looked into how the PROcede actually works...and now I can see why some people refer to a JB3 as a 'boost controller' and the PROcede as a fully integrated engine tuning solution. There is nothing "wrong" or "Bad" with the JB3- It can fulfill some people's requirements. To each their own.

[themyst]

I had a JB3 for over a year before I switched over to the PROcede. Deep down, I always appreciated what Vishnu brought to the table but the cost of entry was prohibitive, especially considering I got my JB3 for $250. The right deal for a rev.2 came along and I got on it.

I think CPS offsetting is a better approach to tuning this car than have the DME handle it, especially since the idea is for the DME NOT to intervene. That and the throttle response on the PROcede is far superior to the JB3 which feels like an on/off switch. I know Terry made a lot of strides towards drivability recently, but without a JB3 I can't really give a fair assessment.

Boost targeting is another superior feature of the PROcede, as with the JB3 you are still contending with ambient conditions and random guesswork to hit a specific boost target, along with picking up soldering skills to run the higher boost levels.

Granted, I am that 1% (as per Shiv) that is fully bolted + meth so my needs for a tune are a bit more elaborate than say the average Joe which is perfectly content with Map 3 on a JB3 with no supporting mods. For that 80% of the population, the JB3 is perfectly fine and Terry has ungodly customer service. His response to e-mails is uncanny. Being that my line of work also involves timely e-mail replies, I can appreciate how tough that may be for one man to handle.

On the other hand, Shiv has been in contact with me with helpful suggestions when I have legitimate issues (I am bogging in between shifts) which I appreciate very much as well; I did not purchase the tune directly from Vishnu.

My vote goes to Vishnu as the better tune for ME.

[Slidewayz]

Originally Posted by k726

All tunes potentially do the exact same thing and manipulate the dme the exact same way. All tunes are pretty customizable. Depending on how far you will mod or what extra "perks" you want/will use is the only difference. In a few months JB and PROcede will be identical. If you are just looking for a tune only and no bolt ons go GIAC. AA just came out with a flash also. Check them out. It's pretty cheap. You will have to call in.

False.

[forza1976]

Originally Posted by Slidewayz

False.

+1. Quite obvious this guy posted with very little knowledge of any n54 tunes.

[645Nm]

What is scientific about this poll?

[Bavarian E92]

Originally Posted by 645Nm

What is scientific about this poll?

For all you smarty pants out there.

Scientific: based on or characterized by the methods and principles of science

Science: the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment

I think this thread qualifies as being a scientific observation.

[NiVeDh]

I wonder how the data will turn out if you start this same poll on the other forums. Could be interesting.

[k726]

Originally Posted by Slidewayz

False.

I apologize for NOT stating that I was talking once BMS integrates CAN with their new board. The capabilities the tunes have will be IDENTICAL. Nothing BMS or Vishnu can do that the other can't. Sorry I did not clarify.

[hun77777]

i had JB3 and switched over to Procede.

As far as drivability, power delivery and numbers on dyno goes, both of these tunes are very different, both are awesome in many ways and as many of you guys can see obviously, they both have many many fanboys as well. so i will not say which is better or worse. Only advise i can give you is TRY BOTH and decide afterwords which suit better for your purpose/usage.

when i had JB3, i didn't have either of DP nor IC so it worked out just fine. I chose JB3 for one obvious reason, it was significantly cheaper. at a beginner stage, i didn't feel like spending thousands of dollars. back then i just wanted little more punch and thought THAT WOULD BE IT.(yea, we all have been there, no? )

obviously as time goes, i added more and more stuff and eventually looking at more power-adding-mods such as DP and IC so i had to make some decision on tune. i chose to switch over to procede simeply because of one reason; practicality.

if i were to keep JB3, i had to get O2 sim for DP, BT scanners for code checking, speed delimiter, not to mention chip burner(or pay for new chip (JB3 1.1 to 1.2 to 1.3 to 1.4 transition back then)). so that was lot of things that i had to purchase to accomodate DP/IC and more power. but with Procede, O2sim/speed delimiter/code scanning/future map updating were all included in one package.

JB3 seems very fun and sure getting lots of positive reviews with 2.0 chip and new-data logging but i'm still kinda hesitant because of all these extra stuff i have to get (lazy i know). sometimes wish it were all-in-one pkg like procede. also it seems like procede is getting better and better with new features like built-in boost guage, AFR quage. i know it's not as cheap as JB3 but with all thses features, i don't regret my decision.

[BrianMN]

I'm very impressed with this thread...all replies, except for a couple black sheep, have been well thought out, professionally written, And not filled with emotion like every other thread.

Kudos to all. And to the OP