[R1000K3]

Originally Posted by tvieira24

Clearly you know more than the guy who builds them for a living.

If you understand the meaning of my 2c you would not make silly comments like this

[bamsefar]

This is where I start to ask questions like:

Staggered fins will introduce a LOT of turbulens. So how come I have not seen any fluid dynamics simulations on staggered fins FMIC vs straight fins ? Because without a simulation of fluid dynamics, the staggered fins FMIC points are useless.

[R1000K3]

Detailed pics of the BigTom IC inner and outer fins. The inner fins are not staggered as the outer fins. The inner fins are provided with holes, which I guess is supposed to create turbulence.

I'm impressed by the Sony camera that was able to take a real sharp picture from only e few inch distance when it was located inside the intercooler

First pic is outside and the next inside IC.

There is an important 335i event in Sweden today and it will be interesting to see how competitive BigTom's car is toward others with high priced IC's.

[MF80]

Originally Posted by bamsefar

This is where I start to ask questions like:

Staggered fins will introduce a LOT of turbulens. So how come I have not seen any fluid dynamics simulations on staggered fins FMIC vs straight fins ? Because without a simulation of fluid dynamics, the staggered fins FMIC points are useless.

Come again, Bam?

[mkPOTO]

very nice, looks good

[Big Tom]

I guess this shows if the $300 Big Tom FMIC is working or not:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430228

[BrianMN]

Originally Posted by Big Tom

I guess this shows if the $300 Big Tom FMIC is working or not:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430228

Yes, those videos show that the intercooler is allowing air to flow through it And probably be cooled down...but they show no evidence that the Big Tom IC performing better or equal to other intercoolers. Datalogs with good testing procedures will allow us to analyze te pressure drop and temp change percentages and compare with the proven intercoolers.

Hopefully Big Tom, if time And capabilities allow, can do testing similar to FBIS's extensive testing.

[slowSwede]

Originally Posted by BrianMN

Yes, those videos show that the intercooler is allowing air to flow through it And probably be cooled down...but they show no evidence that the Big Tom IC performing better or equal to other intercoolers. Datalogs with good testing procedures will allow us to analyze te pressure drop and temp change percentages and compare with the proven intercoolers.

Hopefully Big Tom, if time And capabilities allow, can do testing similar to FBIS's extensive testing.

It would be nice to have a laboratory to test all different IC's on 100 335's. Since we live in the real word...comments like "flow through it And probably be cooled down" are just low. Seriously? Probably be cooled down....

Obviously I can't be sure this IC is better than the rest, but heatsoak does NOT seam like a serious issue on Big tom's car.
If I can just hang with an e60 M5 with a 300 U$ IC, it can't be all bad.

[lyndon_h]

The videos are neat, but they don't prove anything given thy we don't know the ambient temperature or how much time lapsed between runs. If he were running back to back runs in 100 degree weather ee could easily infer that the IC works better than stock.

[R1000K3]

Originally Posted by lyndon_h

The videos are neat, but they don't prove anything given thy we don't know the ambient temperature or how much time lapsed between runs. If he were running back to back runs in 100 degree weather ee could easily infer that the IC works better than stock.

I should not be difficult to understand the cheap IC works a lot better than stock from the picture in http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...54&postcount=1

[lyndon_h]

Originally Posted by R1000K3

I should not be difficult to understand the cheap IC works a lot better than stock from the picture in http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...54&postcount=1

I'm not saying that it doesn't work better than stock, however you can't infer that by looking at the videos without knowing the pieces of information I posted above.

[R1000K3]

The difference between a STD IC and the cheap ebay-type IC should be quite big in 100 degrees weather and consecutive runs. The tubing (and core area) of the stock IC is very small.

[lyndon_h]

Originally Posted by R1000K3

The difference between a STD IC and the cheap ebay-type IC should be quite big in 100 degrees weather and consecutive runs. The tubing (and core area) of the stock IC is very small.

I agree. That is why I am interested in knowing the temp and the tine between runs. If they are consecutive runs in relatively hot weather, then I'm sold.

[Pure745]

Big Tom FTMFW!

Real world tests, ie.. smoking the RS4, M5 and hanging with the tuned C63 is pretty much all I needed to see

[bamsefar]

Originally Posted by JsTech

Come again, Bam?

You don't understand CFD ? Or you don't understand turbulence ?

If you introduce staggered fins into a cooler design, you can in the best of worlds - everything else being equal - gain a substantial amount of extra cooling. However if you don't do your homework you will actually loose performance due to extra turbulence.

So given a specific volume on the cooler, a staggered design might be better. However if you increase the volume on the non staggered, like Big Tom, you will still have a "better" cooler. You could of course choose to increase the volume on the staggered design to the same as Big Tom - but that is a different story now.

Also, if one is after the absolute best design one can imagine for a FMIC I would start with much more design work on the endtanks, and also how they connect to the fin-package... Some companies does a better job on the endtanks, however I still see no one who does the best possible work between the two parts. Let's see if anyone can redesign that area ;-)

[R1000K3]

This is exactly the area where the 3 inch piping comes to good use; it makes it easier for the air to enter and exit the IC than the usual 2.5" piping.

I'm sure the debate and excellent results for the BigTom IC will trigger new and improved IC designs from the major brands like e.g. the worlds biggest IC for 335i with staggered inner fins and improved connections.

[ETS Michael]

That core is pretty interesting with the holes drilled in it. Looks to be a turbulence factor as well. We built our intercooler to be a stock replacement, but it does look like we need to build a race version if the market is asking for one. The current ETS stock replacement intercooler is good for 550whp, most 335i guys won't even reach this. If you add meth on top of it, it's going to out perform the motors internal limits

None the less, nice post and I enjoyed the videos

Michael

[rolling18]

Originally Posted by ETS Michael

That core is pretty interesting with the holes drilled in it. Looks to be a turbulence factor as well.
Michael

yes it MIGHT be a factor. even if it was, would it be enough of a factor to justify the 100's of extra $$$ that a "name brand" "might" give in efficiency, vs. the savings you could put elsewhere in the engine (or your pocket)
not in my pocket-book

[ETS Michael]

Originally Posted by rolling18

yes it MIGHT be a factor. even if it was, would it be enough of a factor to justify the 100's of extra $$$ that a "name brand" "might" give in efficiency, vs. the savings you could put elsewhere in the engine (or your pocket)
not in my pocket-book

When I said that, I was meaning it looks like the holes are made to cause turbulence instead of offsetting and staggering the fin pack. It's a cheaper way to try to get better efficiency. The fins are where the heat transfer takes place.

The best way to get optimal heat transfer is by offsetting the fins.

Michael

[BrianMN]

Originally Posted by ETS Michael

When I said that, I was meaning it looks like the holes are made to cause turbulence instead of offsetting and staggering the fin pack. It's a cheaper way to try to get better efficiency. The fins are where the heat transfer takes place.

The best way to get optimal heat transfer is by offsetting the fins.

Michael

Michael -

Is there a difference between intercourse and radiators as far as fin design is concerned? Ive noticed many radiators in cars And off road vehicles don't have offset fins? I'd assume cost is the only reason. ..But you'd think in high end cars And race applications they would make the best cooling system possible. Does the AR design radiator have offset fins?

[ETS Michael]

Originally Posted by BrianMN

Michael -

Is there a difference between intercourse and radiators as far as fin design is concerned? Ive noticed many radiators in cars And off road vehicles don't have offset fins? I'd assume cost is the only reason. ..But you'd think in high end cars And race applications they would make the best cooling system possible. Does the AR design radiator have offset fins?

Most radiators are Tube and Fin (Similar to stock) and they carry a liquid so they need to have straight through internal channels. The external channels are more for air flow since they have a fan mounted in most cases. The intercooler does not have a fan and relies on ambient air flow. So the more fins you have displayed will result in more heat transfer.

Hope that makes since. You can do a radiator in offset and staggered fins, but it comes down to cost/design/etc.

Michael

[._.]

Originally Posted by BrianMN

Michael -

Is there a difference between intercourse and radiators as far as fin design is concerned? Ive noticed many radiators in cars And off road vehicles don't have offset fins? I'd assume cost is the only reason. ..But you'd think in high end cars And race applications they would make the best cooling system possible. Does the AR design radiator have offset fins?

There is alot different between radiators and intercourse, is it not obvious? Where was your mind when you typed that?