[Nick@aep]

Originally Posted by RambleJ

Yes 4 months old to be exact

Fear not, I have my HD video camera and external mic here taking some excellent video quality for all the forum vultures.

[Nick@aep]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Sniz, any flash can up the the boost to any level you want. The issue is the safety protocols that are also within the data, I can be done, but it's foolhardy.

I'm sure there are some cars that can handle it, but the majority probably can't.

Right. More does not always = better.

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Sniz, any flash can up the the boost to any level you want. The issue is the safety protocols that are also within the data, I can be done, but it's foolhardy.

I'm sure there are some cars that can handle it, but the majority probably can't.

oh no I understand that, i'm just saying I dont think GIAC would put anything above that level.

[grkm3]

Originally Posted by Tortfeasor 335xi

And your source for this information is...? Just because they have not been here responding to every little thread posted mentioning them does not mean they will produce shovel ware and then disappear. We won't know how good or bad this tune is till its released.



Again, your source for this information is...? If there is demand for new maps, why would they not continue to R and D new ones? The very fact they are bothering with our segment of the aftermarket argues against this.



And what does this rant have to do with GIAC or anything for that matter? Some people like making big numbers and running race gas, more power to them. Literally. If you don't want to, good for you, no one is forcing you to. Also, have you done any research or surveys of people running these maps to see the frequency of failure versus the stock car or people running other tunes or do you have access to this information? I doubt you do. Aside from hearsay from the forums I am betting you have no idea how reliable these tunes are. But feel free to post actual data on the subject to prove me wrong. That is, non hearsay, actual data showing failure rates. I am sure everyone on the forum would love to see that as well.

Your real purpose here is obvious, to shit all over a tune that is not even out yet, in some vain attempt to defend your own purchase of a competing tune. That is the only real purpose to your discussion of the Procede or JB3. If you are happy with your tune, good. But posting up attacks on other tunes is pointless without real data to back up your arguments.

My source?How bout 4 cars running flash tunes,2 b5 s4s running off the shelf giac tunes,My brother and cousin have both been running a giac flash for a few years now,got the flash and that was it.No retunes,no forums,NO PROBLEMS WITH THERE TUNES.

See I emailed giac the second week the 335i came out and was very interested in there flash,they told me they were doing a few other projects and would get to it eventually.

Some more sources for you,I have been running the shark injector on my m3 for 8 fucking years without a single problem with the tune,you know whyyyyyy,because jim C didnt go over board and go for the most power and made a safe reliable off the shelf tune,Ohhh and my dinan tune on my DD has been on the car for about 6 years now and still running fine,never once have I had a problem.

You do know that turner motorsports has a flash for the 335 right?Its been the same flash for almost a year,they did the r&d and made a tune that they can sell to the masses witch is called an off the shelf tune,its made to work perfect and work on every car with minimal mods.

There is no demand for new maps bro,they drove the car hard,made a tune and drove it hard,if there was more power to be made they would give it to you.they wont play the tune games like the jb3 and procede,see even AA left these forums,they made a tune,tweaked it,then left it solid and said that its,heres our tune,thats what you get.

Im not hating on giac,I was responding to the guy that said the ecu tuning was limited to 14psi,its not,that is where the safe limits start to get into trouble.

Heres a little real world story for you because I have been there and done that,my friend made 508whp with his 35r evo,on pump....It was basically a max dyno run,kid drove it around even tho he knew it was knocking a little and bam,the other night fucked the thing up big time.

the stock turbos are good for 15psi if you want them to last,I dont care what tune you run,do what ever you want its your car.

You sound like a perfect person for the shark edit,start flashing people cars to run 19-20psi on race and meth and see how many turbos start to whine after a few months.

[roozie2001]

Originally Posted by grkm3

My source?How bout 4 cars running flash tunes,2 b5 s4s running off the shelf giac tunes,My brother and cousin have both been running a giac flash for a few years now,got the flash and that was it.No retunes,no forums,NO PROBLEMS WITH THERE TUNES.

See I emailed giac the second week the 335i came out and was very interested in there flash,they told me they were doing a few other projects and would get to it eventually.

Some more sources for you,I have been running the shark injector on my m3 for 8 fucking years without a single problem with the tune,you know whyyyyyy,because jim C didnt go over board and go for the most power and made a safe reliable off the shelf tune,Ohhh and my dinan tune on my DD has been on the car for about 6 years now and still running fine,never once have I had a problem.

You do know that turner motorsports has a flash for the 335 right?Its been the same flash for almost a year,they did the r&d and made a tune that they can sell to the masses witch is called an off the shelf tune,its made to work perfect and work on every car with minimal mods.

There is no demand for new maps bro,they drove the car hard,made a tune and drove it hard,if there was more power to be made they would give it to you.they wont play the tune games like the jb3 and procede,see even AA left these forums,they made a tune,tweaked it,then left it solid and said that its,heres our tune,thats what you get.

Im not hating on giac,I was responding to the guy that said the ecu tuning was limited to 14psi,its not,that is where the safe limits start to get into trouble.

Heres a little real world story for you because I have been there and done that,my friend made 508whp with his 35r evo,on pump....It was basically a max dyno run,kid drove it around even tho he knew it was knocking a little and bam,the other night fucked the thing up big time.

the stock turbos are good for 15psi if you want them to last,I dont care what tune you run,do what ever you want its your car.

You sound like a perfect person for the shark edit,start flashing people cars to run 19-20psi on race and meth and see how many turbos start to whine after a few months.

JimC's shark tune for the 335 is a fail. Its lame. Theres people on this forum that have been running JB1,2,3s or Vishnu for over 50k miles without a hiccup. Go do some research and you'll find that lately people have been having more problems with Dinan's $2k flash than they have with the two leading piggys on the market and on top of that the money that Dinan said was for their warranty work is being denied. Your prior experience with GIAC is appreciated but it doesnt mean S**t when it comes to the 335. Its not an VW/audi/porsche. Its a twin turbo bmw with a completely different DME. NOT doubting GIACs quality. Im just not jumping on anyones bandwagon til i see results. and last where the hell are u getting 20psi from. If you've been doing any reading and research both Vishnu and Burger are decreasing boost while increasing power. So far piggy is the ONLY good way to go for the 335. You make it seem like a theres been hundreds of turbos that have blown on this forum. Out of the many thousands of piggies sold between all these companies i bet you less than 1% have had any type of turbo failure. I'll take those percentages all day long. Again im not bashing GIAC i think theyre a great company. Im just defending piggys.

[grkm3]

Originally Posted by roozie2001

JimC's shark tune for the 335 is a fail. Its lame. Theres people on this forum that have been running JB1,2,3s or Vishnu for over 50k miles without a hiccup. Go do some research and you'll find that lately people have been having more problems with Dinan's $2k flash than they have with the two leading piggys on the market and on top of that the money that Dinan said was for their warranty work is being denied. Your prior experience with GIAC is appreciated but it doesnt mean S**t when it comes to the 335. Its not an VW/audi/porsche. Its a twin turbo bmw with a completely different DME. NOT doubting GIACs quality. Im just not jumping on anyones bandwagon til i see results. and last where the hell are u getting 20psi from. If you've been doing any reading and research both Vishnu and Burger are decreasing boost while increasing power. So far piggy is the ONLY good way to go for the 335. You make it seem like a theres been hundreds of turbos that have blown on this forum. Out of the many thousands of piggies sold between all these companies i bet you less than 1% have had any type of turbo failure. I'll take those percentages all day long. Again im not bashing GIAC i think theyre a great company. Im just defending piggys.

where are you getting me bashing piggies,all im saying is this tune wont be as powerfull as the jb and procede,they wont run as much boost.giac has been doing tuning for a while now.they test there tunes for a long time and put out a flash and thats it.

once its out its out.it might have a race map ect.but there wont be maps like the jb or procede.

the 19-20 psi came from a member that I quoted that dynod his car at 19psi.Let me ask you this and be honest.

Do you run your car at 19psi?Bet you that same guy right after his dyno he went right back down to 16-17,it was nothing but a dyno queen run on race gas ect...just to post on here his new numbers

companies that flash cars dont want to keep flashing the same car,its not a easy process,they want to make a decent tune and be done with it.

This all started from a member thinking a flash tune cant go over 14psi,that is not true at all,the flash tuners choose not to go over that for a reason.

[roozie2001]

Originally Posted by grkm3

where are you getting me bashing piggies,all im saying is this tune wont be as powerfull as the jb and procede,they wont run as much boost.giac has been doing tuning for a while now.they test there tunes for a long time and put out a flash and thats it.

once its out its out.it might have a race map ect.but there wont be maps like the jb or procede.

the 19-20 psi came from a member that I quoted that dynod his car at 19psi.Let me ask you this and be honest.

Do you run your car at 19psi?Bet you that same guy right after his dyno he went right back down to 16-17,it was nothing but a dyno queen run on race gas ect...just to post on here his new numbers

companies that flash cars dont want to keep flashing the same car,its not a easy process,they want to make a decent tune and be done with it.

This all started from a member thinking a flash tune cant go over 14psi,that is not true at all,the flash tuners choose not to go over that for a reason.

i would never be dumb enough to run my car at 19-20 psi. my car stays under 17 psi and will never see 17 psi and i dont even have a FMIC yet. The point is making as much power as possible and being SAFE with it. If you had the GIAC flash that made 60whp at 15 psi vs a piggy that made say 90 whp at 16 psi would u still go GIAC?

p.s. - i wasnt coming at you to offend u or anything. Just a healthy debate bro.

[grkm3]

Originally Posted by roozie2001

i would never be dumb enough to run my car at 19-20 psi. my car stays under 17 psi and will never see 17 psi and i dont even have a FMIC yet. The point is making as much power as possible and being SAFE with it. If you had the GIAC flash that made 60whp at 15 psi vs a piggy that made say 90 whp at 16 psi would u still go GIAC?

p.s. - i wasnt coming at you to offend u or anything. Just a healthy debate bro.

not offended at all man.

I already know whats going to happen when the dynos get posted,you will see lots of people crapping on it because it only made xamount of power,you will see bro,just wait.Your going to see all the dyno queen juice heads come in and say f that I made way more than that with my xxx tune.

they dont understand that this is ment as a safe flash for the masses.

its going to be exactly what you posted 60whp vs 90whp and one taking a little more risk than the other.

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by grkm3

not offended at all man.

I already know whats going to happen when the dynos get posted,you will see lots of people crapping on it because it only made xamount of power,you will see bro,just wait.Your going to see all the dyno queen juice heads come in and say f that I made way more than that with my xxx tune.

they dont understand that this is ment as a safe flash for the masses.

its going to be exactly what you posted 60whp vs 90whp and one taking a little more risk than the other.

100%


thats why I ask on almost every dyno thread "what boost?"

I barely ever get replies, its sad.

[Tortfeasor 335xi]

Originally Posted by grkm3

My source?How bout 4 cars running flash tunes,2 b5 s4s running off the shelf giac tunes, My brother and cousin have both been running a giac flash for a few years now,got the flash and that was it. No retunes,no forums, NO PROBLEMS WITH THERE TUNES.

GIAC’s reputation for Audis, VW an Porsche is well known. But whether this flash is going to be amazing or an also ran will greatly depend on whether this quality makes the leap onto the new platform without there being teething issues. I honestly hope it does, but we won’t know until some people act as guinea pigs for the rest of us.

Originally Posted by grkm3

Some more sources for you, I have been running the shark injector on my m3 for 8 fucking years without a single problem with the tune,you know whyyyyyy,because jim C didnt go over board and go for the most power and made a safe reliable off the shelf tune,Ohhh and my dinan tune on my DD has been on the car for about 6 years now and still running fine,never once have I had a problem.

So what have you just suggested? That you can’t infer present quality from past success? What with the problems people have been having with Dinan products on their 335s and its reputation on other BMW platforms, that seems to be the implied argument here. Also, who mentioned Shark injector? Why is that even relevant? There is no shark injector for the 335. Also, you again imply that other tunes go overboard but have no proof that this is in fact the case. More over, a few individual successes do not determine the failure rate of a product. All we know is in a sample size of 1 there were no failures. That’s not a large enough test group for us to draw any conclusions from.

Originally Posted by grkm3

You do know that turner motorsports has a flash for the 335 right?Its been the same flash for almost a year,they did the r&d and made a tune that they can sell to the masses witch is called an off the shelf tune,its made to work perfect and work on every car with minimal mods.

I am not doubting that you can tune the car with a flash tuner. As a former STI owner whose vehicle was tuned by Cobb’s Accessport I am well aware of the virtues of flash tunes, whether OTS or custom. But this does not imply that all flash tunes are good. A tune is only as good as the tuner and his or her familiarity with tuning that particular vehicle. In this case GIAC is new to BMWs and the 335, which as we discussed above have proven difficult to tune properly even for experienced BMW tuners.

Originally Posted by grkm3

There is no demand for new maps bro,they drove the car hard,made a tune and drove it hard,if there was more power to be made they would give it to you.they wont play the tune games like the jb3 and procede,see even AA left these forums,they made a tune,tweaked it,then left it solid and said that its,heres our tune,thats what you get.

So because AA picked up its toys and went home we should infer that there is no improvement to be had? That does not follow. Just because certain tuners stopped fighting because they either didn’t feel like continuing the battle or were losing does not mean others can’t succeed. Hell, if there are no improvements to be made there would be no point for GIAC to jump in, no need for there to be updates to the Procede or JB products. Its always possible to improve a tune.

Originally Posted by grkm3

Im not hating on giac,I was responding to the guy that said the ecu tuning was limited to 14psi,its not,that is where the safe limits start to get into trouble.

I understand, and I agree, hating a product before we have even seen it is silly. Until it has been seen and tested its an unknown that can’t be judged.

Originally Posted by grkm3

Heres a little real world story for you because I have been there and done that,my friend made 508whp with his 35r evo,on pump....It was basically a max dyno run,kid drove it around even tho he knew it was knocking a little and bam,the other night fucked the thing up big time.

I was until recently very active in the Subaru community, before that the mustang community. The danger in tuning a car beyond factory output is always parts failure. It’s the basis for the old racer’s adage, if you aren’t breaking parts, you aren’t making enough HP. The problem is that there are a ton of reasons parts fail. Limiting all tunes to a certain PSI or HP rating is to over simplify things. For a tune to be properly safe for daily driving it needs to take into account a plethora of factors, not the least of which is the load on the turbos. So without knowing all the other factors, I can’t conclude that your friend’s Evo failed because he made too much power or pushed too much PSI. More than likely it was because he did not properly tune it. After all, you did say it was knocking, usually a good sign of poor tuning.

Originally Posted by grkm3

the stock turbos are good for 15psi if you want them to last,I dont care what tune you run,do what ever you want its your car.

Currently my car is not running any tune. But the convergence at 14 PSI or 15 PSI in tunes doesn’t mean you can’t run the turbos that high consistently, just that others have not been able to, or that it is not easy to do it right. Remember that compressor maps compare airflow to pressure ratio, simply citing a PSI rating is only part of the story.

Originally Posted by grkm3

You sound like a perfect person for the shark edit,start flashing people cars to run 19-20psi on race and meth and see how many turbos start to whine after a few months.

Again, why is Shark edit relevant here, it does not exist, and likely will never exist. Also, I am not a tuner, and even if I had the programming skills, I likely would not be tuning random people’s cars. As I said above, a tune depends on many factors, its not just about plugging in a boost controller and cranking the knob.

[Tortfeasor 335xi]

Originally Posted by Sniz

100%

thats why I ask on almost every dyno thread "what boost?"

I barely ever get replies, its sad.

Also worth noting is what octane. Its easy to make big numbers by using race gas, it also tends to mask bad tuning by adding extra detonation protection. Looking at the PSI and Octane will give you an idea about how relevant the tune is for daily driving. Though this certainly does not tell the whole story.

More good advice is checking to see if the HP and Torque cross at 5250 rpm as this will let you know whether or not the numbers have been tampered with via a correction factor. The formula after all is HP = TORQUE X RPM ÷ 5252.

[grkm3]

evo was tuned by big al at ics,the car was tuned fine,its the last words in your post that killed it.

that little boost knob lol,just 3 psi more wont hurt it will it,car must of been in the 600whp that night.

fully built engine,cams,top end all redone,bottom all done and was even revving to 8600 all day.

he thought because it was a built engine that it could take a little knock and upped it to 2.0 bar while racing a few very fast stage 3 ko4 s4s

see 3 psi was all it took for my boy to do about 10k in damage to his car.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Tortfeasor 335xi

Also worth noting is what octane. Its easy to make big numbers by using race gas, it also tends to mask bad tuning by adding extra detonation protection. Looking at the PSI and Octane will give you an idea about how relevant the tune is for daily driving.

Do not expect honesty in anything as such around here.

That said, while I have run and enjoyed GIAC tunes in Audi's, I do not expect perfection right out of the box. I know there were many iterations of the B5 S4 tunes as well as the Stage 3 AWE tune. Assumptions about perfection out of the box are unfounded. But continual improvement should be expected. The delivery (of updated tunes) is the questionable part

[retrodrive]

Originally Posted by grkm3

This all started from a member thinking a flash tune cant go over 14psi,that is not true at all,the flash tuners choose not to go over that for a reason.

I never said that that a flash can't go over 14psi. I am saying that so far, flash tunes struggled to pass the 14psi mark without having your dash board looking like a Christmas tree. Yet, every single time the developers or sales people have made a "safety" excuse for every flash failure. I am sure I can find one even in this thread.
I personally like GIAC tunes and I have helped installing it on several customer cars. I can't wait to see what they have in store; however, if its more of the same old that has been tried on 335 before, I'd be disappointed.

[BavarianBullet]

Given the reliability of the entire of the N54 (HPFP, Cams, seals, injectors, VANOS solenoids), the turbos aren't the only thing I'm worried about.

Based on what others seem to have been able to accomplish for "miles tuned", I'd bet the turbos are less likely to fail from being daily driven on a 15psi map (occasional romp on freeway ramps etc) than the other parts mentioned.

I'm not in the know enough to comment on likely success of a new flash but the available ones for the N54 do seem to have their issues. It seems this DME has more tricks up it's sleeve than a vegas magician and prodding it with a flash to do what you want is no easy task. (the logic is insidious).

[R3NEGADE]

Why not just leave this thread for info about the GIAC flash?

[baltik]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Do not expect honesty in anything as such around here.

That said, while I have run and enjoyed GIAC tunes in Audi's, I do not expect perfection right out of the box. I know there were many iterations of the B5 S4 tunes as well as the Stage 3 AWE tune. Assumptions about perfection out of the box are unfounded. But continual improvement should be expected. The delivery (of updated tunes) is the questionable part

+1, flash delivery, level of canbus integration and map switching is where the great tune battle will be won and lost since the tuners are both competent.

On one side Shiv has been consistently priced out and out-featured off of every single platform he has tuned for by a flash. On the flip side GIAC has never really successfully jumped off the VAG platform

[lauer87]

Originally Posted by R3NEGADE

Why not just leave this thread for info about the GIAC flash?

+1, I agree, lets keep it on topic here

[KWY91]

Woohoo can't wait for developments on this one!

[m3rxn]

I have confidence in GIAC. I'm running there tune in my blown M3.

[dmboone25]

Any more updates? Thought there were some mentioned yesterday......

[jpsimon]

More updates coming later today, don't worry!