[Sniz]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Great info, gives me a good idea on amount of vacuum in the crankcase under idle/wot as well as how to properly setup exhaust scavenging and how much vacuum would/could be introduced

if 1/2 of those guys from that thread made their way over here, the n54 would advance so much faster

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by Sniz

yup thats what I was thinking, not an easy tap job at all (thats what she said )

lol

[Joshboody]

yeah, I remember it being kinda thick and there's a metal plate on the bottom of the plastic cap. A vise and drill press... get a machine shop to help you. much safer than any other route.

I remember someone stating that the oil pan has a cap where a dipstick could be... i doubt you can remove it though.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

yeah, I remember it being kinda thick and there's a metal plate on the bottom of the plastic cap. A vise and drill press... get a machine shop to help you. much safer than any other route.

I remember someone stating that the oil pan has a cap where a dipstick could be... i doubt you can remove it though.

Shop where I'm going has a drill press so we'll see...cap is only $20 so replacing it no biggie..

I wouldn't do it at the oil pan, really need as clean a tap and lowest chance of oil coming/sucking into the line as possible

[raceyBMW]

Oil Cap definitely has to be your best bet in terms of replacement cost if it doesn't work out. Tapping the valve cover and it not working out for some reason would be an expensive lesson.

This is really all great information, and finally leading down a path to a much cleaner intake tract and valve system. Its excellent that you are taking a lead on this.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by raceyBMW

Oil Cap definitely has to be your best bet in terms of replacement cost if it doesn't work out. Tapping the valve cover and it not working out for some reason would be an expensive lesson.

This is really all great information, and finally leading down a path to a much cleaner intake tract and valve system. Its excellent that you are taking a lead on this.

Yeah, VC is $300 from Tischer so by the time I have it here in Canada about $370...Oil cap is only $15-20 so I'll give that a shot first but it'll be a tap job and a half (...what she said..)

[Transport3r]

couldn't you use a cheap autozone oil cap to tap?

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by joshuo

couldn't you use a cheap autozone oil cap to tap?

Send me a link..what does it look like from the inside?

[vasillalov]

Alright,

I think I am getting bit confused, so please, excuse me for asking those questions:

Say I want to completely eliminate ANY oil fumes going into the intake tubing. I would have to worry about 2 scenarios:

a) on boost and
b) vacuum (idle and deceleration).

To solve a) can I run a tube like this: Valve Cover -> OCC -> dump tube handing under the car?

What do I need to do to solve b) ?

[dzenno]

Under boost cv#2 is open and goes to your rear intake so your solution will solve that part..

Under vacuum, cv#3 sucks air right into the intake manifold from the VC so you need to cap off cv#3...

Next one to ask will be tortured lol

[vasillalov]

How is it that we have 3 check valves and not just two?

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

How is it that we have 3 check valves and not just two?

Lol you can't be serious

[DefactoM6]

Vasil, go back and read the beginning of the thread. There are only 2.

So a question, the way you capped off #3 has now totally eliminated the possibility of leaking under boost? Maybe I'm struggling with seeing how that little piece you added seals everything off, but it looks like there's still a way for gases to get in. DISCLAIMER: Looking at the pics, I'm not quite sure how it all functions, so I could be grossly mistaken.

Any updates on the situation with tapping the oil cap and using the vibrant exhaust scavenging system to draw crankcase pressure out?

[vasillalov]

Duuuh! Sorry guys. That was an obvious brain fart on my behalf! I get what you are saying now...

[Joshboody]

Originally Posted by DefactoM6

Vasil, go back and read the beginning of the thread. There are only 2.

So a question, the way you capped off #3 has now totally eliminated the possibility of leaking under boost? Maybe I'm struggling with seeing how that little piece you added seals everything off, but it looks like there's still a way for gases to get in. DISCLAIMER: Looking at the pics, I'm not quite sure how it all functions, so I could be grossly mistaken.

Any updates on the situation with tapping the oil cap and using the vibrant exhaust scavenging system to draw crankcase pressure out?

I take it Dzenno is holding the cap to the atmosphere in his hand. Is the CV or chamber routed to the manifold. In other words which way is the CV on/off? Either way capping the nozzle will close this route

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by DefactoM6

Vasil, go back and read the beginning of the thread. There are only 2.

So a question, the way you capped off #3 has now totally eliminated the possibility of leaking under boost? Maybe I'm struggling with seeing how that little piece you added seals everything off, but it looks like there's still a way for gases to get in. DISCLAIMER: Looking at the pics, I'm not quite sure how it all functions, so I could be grossly mistaken.

Any updates on the situation with tapping the oil cap and using the vibrant exhaust scavenging system to draw crankcase pressure out?

Pretty hard to explain in words, best is just to pull that cap off yourself and let your car idle and see how it works, but ill try...

Under the plastic cap that has the hex top on it in the hole you have that checkvalve..at the base of this checkvalve there's a tiny amount of space around it...vacuum from the intake manifold sucks air around the checkvalve base...now in the middle of the checkvalve there's a protruding tiny pipe coming out towards the hexcap...you can see this in the photos...this top of the checkvalve has a hole on top that's an open path to the crankcase...so vacuum around the checkvalve pulls gases/vapors through this hole on the tip from the crankcase...if you put a vacuum rubber cap and cover this hole you basically block the crankcase passage and prevent that intake manifold vacuum from pulling anything from the crankcase anymore...

Sooo, the above is when intake manifold is under vacuum...when you go into boost, intake manifold sees boost...when stock (ie. cv#3 tip not capped off) a leaky cv#3 would allow air the opposite way, air goes out of the intake manifold passing through the passage at the base of the checkvalve and up through the hole in the tip of the checkvalve directly into the crankcase...the higher the boost the worse this leak/overpressure becomes...now on top of all that if you have a restrictive OCC on #2 you're it allowing this pressure to cent fast enough...

In the endcrankcase overpressure does it's damage as already mentioned...One pull isn't enough to cause damage but with high boost, high oil temps and multiple runs (racing) this crankcase overpressure will cause oil to go past many seals on your car, turbo seals seem to be the first to go and it's by by turbo...

Most people I talked to that had turbo failures actually had front turbo failures...haven't heard of a single rear turbo failure...this makes me wonde why the front turbo dies first...any takers?

EDIT: note that so far I haven't "proven" that cv#3 leaks under high boost and that's one of the few things I'm trying to test for by taking the VC off and testing it with an air compressor...I also haven't proven that the OCCs are restrictive...I have experienced crankcase overpressure though with oil leaks everywhere which stop when I lower boost...in the meantime I also removed my OCC and run the stock tube to the rear intake...a bunch of testing is going to be done and then I'll know what I can run safely...I also know that not closing off cv#3 is one of 2 ways blowby ends up on the intake valves so capping it off definitely has that benefit

[DefactoM6]

Waiting for results...

[Clap135]

Personally I think you are over thinking this.

Where are all these oil leaks that you are describing?

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Personally I think you are over thinking this.

Where are all these oil leaks that you are describing?

He is bugging out because Shiv paid him a visit in Canada, and told him that his CC was an issue and ever since he is tripping with this!

[Clap135]

Shiv is quick to blame hardware. My banks were off as well, then shiv tuned it out with maps. Go figure.

If dzenno is truely over pressurizing the crankcase theres a VERY simply solution to all this.
Put your catch can back in like everyone else with common sense and simply run a vented oil cap. Problem solved.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Personally I think you are over thinking this.

Where are all these oil leaks that you are describing?

Maybe I'm tripping but I won't rest until I know that overpressure isn't happening..

Here's some background, are you ready? Its a mouthful..

When Shiv was here we did around 200-300 pulls on the car with RBs within about 3-4 days, 90 of which were on the dyno...While he was here we got a light in the dash to add 1 quart of oil...I added it right after he left and basically attributed it to running the engine hard during that time...maybe a week after I got the light again to add another quart (this is maybe 300km after)...while he was here we ran with the RR OCC for the first 2 days and then pulled it out and ran open PCV (cv#2 open to atmo, rear intake tube plugged) as he showed me in the datalog that the 2 banks started to follow each other and the AFR imbalance we were seeing was gone...I was confused but accepted it as we were trying to nail down the cause of the high RPM misfire...so we moved on, but to this day and ever since he left, I datalogged a bunch of times running stock PCV setup and with boost anywhere above about 12.5-13psi I see this AFR imbalance starting to happen in the "procede" datalogs...lower boost doesn't show it...so I ordered an LC-1 AFR wideband sensor and hooked it up and started datalogging...I just finished configuring this today and JUST got some surprising results when compared to procede datalogs which show Innovate LC-1 showing similar results at idle and cruise (within 0.1-0.3 AFR) and then under boost the results vary from 0.5-1.0 leaner on the LC-1 than the procede datalogs...I'm still working through this as I just got it installed but it does indicate that either procede is datalogging richer or that LC-1 datalogging richer...which would you trust more? I don't know and I'll order another LC-1 and datalog all 4 together but this I'll be dealing with at another time, related? maybe, maybe not...

Back on topic..after Shiv left here, about 10 days later I started noticing blue smoke out of the driver's side tailpipe by total fluke as I drove in another car behind mine, small puffs initially on throttle lift that I've mentioned on this forum before...it wasn't bad but it quickly was getting worse...it was at this time that I also noticed the entire front of the engine block was soaked in oil starting under the oil filter housing...this freaked me out!! Googling and asking around what the cause could be (car was still running strong by the way) I thought maybe the front oil drain line had was kinked, which happens sometimes, and its causing the oil to back up the drain and go past the turbo seal into the exhaust...I also found out that some people reported having oil filter housing gasket issues and had them replaced (Mr. 5) so I thought I'd do that as well to fix the oil leak in front...I had the front oil drain line looked at and there seemed to be a very very slight kink but in all honesty if I didn't look for it I'd have thought it was just fine, which it maybe really was...In any case, I decided to replace the front oil drain line and eliminate any visible kink in the line...didn't help, blue smoke kept getting worse...At this time I noticed there was oil on the bottom of the oil pan around the oil pan gasket and this is when I realized that oil was going past more than one seal on the car for "some" reason! That left me wondering about crankcase pressure and a restrictive PCV system under boost but I had blue smoke to deal with so this was left on the table for a bit...

Then I decided to get the downpipes off the car and look at the turbine, which is when I noticed it had in/out play in it and basically the front turbo oil seal was done...rear was still "ok"...this was the cause of my blue smoke...talked to Rob immediately and without much deliberation he said that if I suspect the turbos went that I should get them out and sent down to him for review of the failure...thankfully Rob decided to offer amazing customer service and he serviced both of them for a very small fee...he sent them back to me within 48hrs and indicated that the most likely issue was crankcase overpressure related where it was causing the oil to go past the oil seals and eventually causing the seal to fail which caused the thrust bearing to fail...he also immediately asked if I was running an OCC and if I had looked at the oil drain line and that he was worried that crankcase overpressure might've been created due to a bad cv#3, where my PCV saga started...

At this time I have the turbos back on the car, I have the LC-1 hooked up to a procede 5V analog input and can datalog AFR on bank2, where its bunged in right now, along with Procede's AFR for bank1 and bank2. I literally JUST datalogged and saw surprising values. LC-1 and procede logs don't quite match, especially as boost is raised, with LC-1 indicating between 0.2-1.0 leaner...at 16psi with 94 octane and meth turned off (this was 440-450whp on the dynojet back in March) AFR from the LC-1 indicated low-mid 13s while procede indicated 12-12.5 on bank1 and 11.8-12.5 bank2...this is a topic for a separate discussion though but I will be getting a 2nd LC-1 to run on bank1 as well...if anyone wants to know I followed the Innovate free-air calibration procedure to the DOT so before anyone mentions that know that its not the issue here...at idle and cruise both LC-1 and Procede show very very close values...More on this when I get the 2nd LC-1 so I can compare the two banks without Procede's AFR calculations..

Back to the crankcase pressure and PCV, I don't trust running this car hard much without knowing where crankcase pressure sits and I don't want to risk having to pull out my turbos again...once I know this is fine and within spec I'll have no problem running my car hard again and putting it through most utter HELL but I need to know I got my bases covered this time!

How's all that for an explanation for everyone?

Originally Posted by cn555ic

He is bugging out because Shiv paid him a visit in Canada, and told him that his CC was an issue and ever since he is tripping with this!

lol dude, just go install that N20 already would you!

Originally Posted by Clap135

Shiv is quick to blame hardware. My banks were off as well, then shiv tuned it out with maps. Go figure.

If dzenno is truely over pressurizing the crankcase theres a VERY simply solution to all this.
Put your catch can back in like everyone else with common sense and simply run a vented oil cap. Problem solved.

Shiv is definitely fast to blame hardware but in a lot of cases he was actually right...he was wrong about my o2 sensors being bad when I was telling him about my AFR imbalance though...changed with brand new o2 front sensors, $400 later, same thing...don't blame him much though, there are a TON of parameters coming into play here and its VERY hard to know for sure what the problem is until you try a few things...

I don't want a vented oil cap I want to know how I can solve this properly and first of all actually, find out if I really do have a crankcase overpressure issue caused by a limitation in the stock PCV, especially cv#3 that's been mentioned so much...

[wren57]

Wow that was one hell of a post. Makes me feel even dumber following it with this question:

Is the PCV what makes the farting/impact-printer noise at time?