[Ingeniator]

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

Well it completely depends on the motor, small block chevys like to throw rods through the block, VW's like to break cranks, hondas like to break ring lands, and or crack pistons. These N54 motors are damn robust, if I had to guess what is going to break, I am going to put my money on the open deck block giving it up.

Well at least two of those example motors likely weren't turbocharged from factory. I'm all for examples but comparing a modern flat torque motor like the N54 with those is like apples and oranges. I agree if the platform has one obvious weak point it is the open deck but if we start hitting big enough numbers for that to be the failure point while keeping everything else in check then we are doing something right. The only reason I see to build the bottom end fight now is to do a stroker kit. I also think a set of mid or full sleeves would be a good upgrade if someone scuffs a cylinder bad enough.

[Ingeniator]

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

My apologies, I think you took that the wrong way! I was not being sarcastic at all, I was being 100% serious. I am an intelligent person, and know my way around a LOT of things, but experience is my strong suit. I am not someone that can argue flow theory with you, or heavy math or things like that. I apologize if it came off wrong, I was just being honest.

Originally Posted by '___'

No worries.

Beers all around.

['___']

Originally Posted by Ingeniator

Beers all around.

No beers for me, I'm working.

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by Ingeniator

Well at least two of those example motors likely weren't turbocharged from factory. I'm all for examples but comparing a modern flat torque motor like the N54 with those is like apples and oranges. I agree if the platform has one obvious weak point it is the open deck but if we start hitting big enough numbers for that to be the failure point while keeping everything else in check then we are doing something right. The only reason I see to build the bottom end fight now is to do a stroker kit. I also think a set of mid or full sleeves would be a good upgrade if someone scuffs a cylinder bad enough.

My example wasn't based on motor type, it was simply based on high boost applications. When we built turbo systems for of the examples I gave, they were almost always done on built motors, and when we saw them break, was usually at high load / high rpm. I agree the N54 is apples and oranges, but I do not see one of these giving it up until we are pushing 650+WTQ to redline. Also the engine we are having built is a 9.5:1 compression ratio stroker. Not sleeved, which is of some concern to me, but we are going to run it anyways. Honestly the cast pistons have to be nearing their limits. I prob give it 50/50 between breaking a piston and the block the more we push.

[Ingeniator]

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

My example wasn't based on motor type, it was simply based on high boost applications. When we built turbo systems for of the examples I gave, they were almost always done on built motors, and when we saw them break, was usually at high load / high rpm. I agree the N54 is apples and oranges, but I do not see one of these giving it up until we are pushing 650+WTQ to redline. Also the engine we are having built is a 9.5:1 compression ratio stroker. Not sleeved, which is of some concern to me, but we are going to run it anyways. Honestly the cast pistons have to be nearing their limits. I prob give it 50/50 between breaking a piston and the block the more we push.

That sounds interesting. I've been eyeing up a dry sump setup with aux vac pump if needed. Trying to find room/eliminate stock oil pump without having taken a bottom end apart yet is the hard part so far. If your going long enough you would see benefits in the windage gains.

[Ingeniator]

Originally Posted by '___'

No beers for me, I'm working.

I just got off this morning. You working nights or just the late shift.

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by Ingeniator

That sounds interesting. I've been eyeing up a dry sump setup with aux vac pump if needed. Trying to find room/eliminate stock oil pump without having taken a bottom end apart yet is the hard part so far. If your going long enough you would see benefits in the windage gains.

This motor talk is fun, but lets not derail the PTF thread. If we want to talk motors, we can always start another one.

['___']

Originally Posted by Ingeniator

That sounds interesting. I've been eyeing up a dry sump setup with aux vac pump if needed. Trying to find room/eliminate stock oil pump without having taken a bottom end apart yet is the hard part so far. If your going long enough you would see benefits in the windage gains.

Use the same location tony did for his hpfp upgrade but for a belt driven vac pump. I'm sure if there's any money in it, he'll sell you a belt if you run the same or close enough sized pulley.

Came in at 9am today...planning on heading out about 1am. BUT, big projects, big money...

[Ingeniator]

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

This motor talk is fun, but lets not derail the PTF thread. If we want to talk motors, we can always start another one.

Originally Posted by '___'

Use the same location tony did for his hpfp upgrade but for a belt driven vac pump. I'm sure if there's any money in it, he'll sell you a belt if you run the same or close enough sized pulley.

Very true we already derailed one un official thread no point in doing the same to this one.

[trixdout]

At what boost level on this setup on the n55 will we be at 80% duty cycle on the stock injectors and stock fuel pump?

[2Times]

How will the newer N55 be tuned?

[TT-Tom]

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

Well it completely depends on the motor, small block chevys like to throw rods through the block, VW's like to break cranks, hondas like to break ring lands, and or crack pistons. These N54 motors are damn robust, if I had to guess what is going to break, I am going to put my money on the open deck block giving it up.

Sorry but VW cranks are hard to make better, maybe air cooled VW's but nothing within the last 15 years...

[trixdout]

Not sure about what you guys think, but from other non straight 6 engine applications, power over 500hp and 500ft lb of torque benefit from a forged crank. Less flex. Less flex is definitely needed. So for putting this kit on a n55, it may need to have a forged rotating assembly.

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by TT-Tom

Sorry but VW cranks are hard to make better, maybe air cooled VW's but nothing within the last 15 years...

This was referring to Air Cooled VW's, thanks.

['___']

Originally Posted by trixdout

Not sure about what you guys think, but from other non straight 6 engine applications, power over 500hp and 500ft lb of torque benefit from a forged crank. Less flex. Less flex is definitely needed. So for putting this kit on a n55, it may need to have a forged rotating assembly.

Does the n55 not have a forged crank? Pretty sure it has forged rods and hypereutectic pistons just like the n54.

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by '___'

Does the n55 not have a forged crank? Pretty sure it has forged rods and hypereutectic pistons just like the n54.

N54 forged Steel Crank, N55 Cast iron crank that is 3KG lighter than the N54 crank, this is directly from BMW manuals

['___']

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

N54 forged Steel Crank, N55 Cast iron crank that is 3KG lighter than the N54 crank, this is directly from BMW manuals

Thank god for having an N54!

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by '___'

Thank god for having an N54!

In a straight 6 application the crank would be the very last thing to go. I have no doubt the crank is good for over 700, we will see how the rest of the motor holds up

['___']

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

In a straight 6 application the crank would be the very last thing to go. I have no doubt the crank is good for over 700, we will see how the rest of the motor holds up

I hear ya, but it's like the saying, "I don't have to be able to outrun a bear chasing us; I just have to outrun you." So, a crank outrunning other, cheaper parts is A OK in my book.

[The Ghost]

When is this going to be shipped? This seems like a huge tease. No logs, no dynos, shipping eta. What's the point?

[Ovitrix335]

Originally Posted by The Ghost

When is this going to be shipped? This seems like a huge tease. No logs, no dynos, shipping eta. What's the point?

I was thinking the same thing. It has been 28 days since the official release and still no data...
Weird....

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by The Ghost

This seems like a huge tease. No logs, no dynos, shipping eta. What's the point?

To stay relevant?