[InCityPhoto]

Post log's of 100 degree weather and then post logs of 75 degree weather then post logs of 50 degree weather, of the same car.

And lets compare.

[BrianMN]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

You're in chicago, so you do see some heat. when you WOT when stock and it's hot... doesn't feel so good huh; not like the winter? This is timing. the dme is trying to reach the same load target, so why is it slower... timing.

Wellll, I wouldn't really attribute it to just that... It's a hell of a lot easier to reach load targets in ideal conditions (low temps) vs. poor conditions (hot temps)

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

Post log's of 100 degree weather and then post logs of 75 degree weather then post logs of 50 degree weather, of the same car.

And lets compare.

ITs already in there minus the 50 degree weather logs.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by WOPALX

Not being an expert but isn't the sample rate of the JB software slower than Vishnu's? If that's the case would it not inadvertently smooth the curve so to speak?

Regardless the idea of doubling the boost and relying on the stock timing map to keep you out of trouble is fought with danger IMHO, especially when users can run maps etc too high for their supporting maps.

The jb sampling rates are the slowest of all tunes that have logging abilities last time I checked. I asked if this changed with the jb4, but never got an answer.

[mithiral67]

So run meth and water combo with the stock tune in high temps just to prevent knock and timing drops?

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by lemanse92

Clap, my friends logs are all saved in csv instead of a jpg. Still valuable to post or forget it?

its still valuable, all you have to do is graph it out to make it easy to read.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

You're in chicago, so you do see some heat. when you WOT when stock and it's hot... doesn't feel so good huh; not like the winter? This is timing. the dme is trying to reach the same load target, so why is it slower... timing.

Dude, if an engine is really knocking you will actually feel it. Retarding the timing is one thing, engine knock is completely different.

Yes, in Chicago, in the summer we get easily 90+ degrees and very high humidity because of the lake. Yes, I can confirm that the car feels neutered and less powerful, but the power delivery is still butter smooth.

If you have a seriously knocking engine, then you will feel this right away.

[InCityPhoto]

Originally Posted by Clap135

ITs already in there minus the 50 degree weather logs.

Someone should do all three same car, stock.

Then install the JB4 and do it again

Then install a Procrede and do it again

Then get a flash and do it again

and then we can compare logs.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by mithiral67

So run meth and water combo with the stock tune in high temps just to prevent knock and timing drops?

No because knock during stock load outputs is not as damaging as knock during raised boost outputs. But if you want it perfect, w/m on a stock car would 100 percent max out that timing curve in the shitty conditions. It would be a little faster, hoenstly if you are stock, you shouldn't bother. As others said, BMW did their RnD for a STOCK car.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

Someone should do all three same car, stock.

Then install the JB4 and do it again

Then install a Procrede and do it again

Then get a flash and do it again

and then we can compare logs.

I believe I said to leave tuner wars out of this. This thread is about the juicebox and it relying on the stock ecu to fix things....

[InCityPhoto]

Originally Posted by Clap135

No because knock during stock load outputs is not as damaging as knock during raised boost outputs. But if you want it perfect, w/m on a stock car would 100 percent max out that timing curve in the shitty conditions. It would be a little faster, hoenstly if you are stock, you shouldn't bother. As others said, BMW did their RnD for a STOCK car.

How do you know they only did there R&D on a stock car, that is hard to believe..

Originally Posted by Clap135

I believe I said to leave tuner wars out of this. This thread is about the juicebox and it relying on the stock ecu to fix things....

My apologies, I just figured since we are comparing log's might as well have ALL the logs..

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

How do you know they only did there R&D on a stock car, that is hard to believe..





My apologies, I just figured since we are comparing log's might as well have ALL the logs..

Because the IS version runs a differnt timing curve...

[BrianMN]

[QUOTE=InCityPhoto;8960731]How do you know they only did there R&D on a stock car, that is hard to believe..

QUOTE]

What are you thinking they might have done???

[InCityPhoto]

[QUOTE=BrianMN;8960738]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

How do you know they only did there R&D on a stock car, that is hard to believe..

QUOTE]

What are you thinking they might have done???

Im not going to make assumptions on what they did.

I know if I was to make a engine, I would not test it and R&D it with only 6PSI, I would go to 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16 etc until we found the safest and most economical way to use our systems..

How would I know if we could make more power out of it stock?

Originally Posted by Clap135

Because the IS version runs a differnt timing curve...

Could you please post the two curves side by side?

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Because the IS version runs a differnt timing curve...

Interesting! I learn something new every day...

[Joshboody]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Dude, if an engine is really knocking you will actually feel it. Retarding the timing is one thing, engine knock is completely different.

Yes, in Chicago, in the summer we get easily 90+ degrees and very high humidity because of the lake. Yes, I can confirm that the car feels neutered and less powerful, but the power delivery is still butter smooth.

If you have a seriously knocking engine, then you will feel this right away.

not saying its due to knock, but retarded timing. lower timing curve in general. if the dme didn't retard timing due to a certain signal from the knock sensors, then we would definetly hear the engine knocking... but the retard happens as soon as there's evidence of knock. and this happens over and over

[InCityPhoto]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

not saying its due to knock, but retarded timing. lower timing curve in general. if the dme didn't retard timing due to a certain signal from the knock sensors, then we would definetly hear the engine knocking... but the retard happens as soon as there's evidence of knock. and this happens over and over

isn't that was Mike was referring to as "pre knock"?

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

not saying its due to knock, but retarded timing. lower timing curve in general. if the dme didn't retard timing due to a certain signal from the knock sensors, then we would definetly hear the engine knocking... but the retard happens as soon as there's evidence of knock. and this happens over and over

Exactly, and thats because the ecu wants to target the preset timing curve meant for stock conditions. The goal of tuning is to set the max ignition below the knock status point.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

isn't that was Mike was referring to as "pre knock"?

A knock sensor cannot detech "preknock" thats not even a word btw
It can only react to knock....

[secretsquirrel]

Originally Posted by JoseMaria

Long time lurker registered to this site just to say +1 to this post. Gotta think BMW R&D knows something about long term reliability of their engines and has probably tested the stock tune in extreme conditions.

They obviously didn't test too hard or long or they would have known about HPFP, injectors, and coil problems with this car. I don't believe that we should have have too much faith in manufacturers. If they really wanted to do what was best for the long term reliability, they would have given us some upgraded IC's.

[ianthegreat]

Originally Posted by Clap135

A jb4 wont do shit with timing as it can't control it at all. It relies on the stock ecu to fix it, and from the above example, the stock ecu is not really fixing it on a stock car let alone a tuned car.

Could the knock be so insignificant that it posed no danger whatsoever to engine internals but easily be read by a computer microchip?

Let's define a "knock."

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by lemanse92

Here is a JB4 log from my friends car, However keep in mind this is before any autotuning and any pid autotuning on an early firmware. If this invalidates anything, let me know ill try to get more recent logs from him.
[IMG][/IMG]

Funny how IATs sky rocketed isnt it.....
Also funny, how it resembles the curve of the stock ecu in the first post....
So in 3rd gear, it knocked at x degrees, dropped, and then ramped up to x degrees again, and knocked again.