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JB4 CPS offset dyno testing and logs
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03-22-2011, 12:04 PM | #23 | |
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Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(e90post.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.
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03-22-2011, 12:05 PM | #24 |
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Mike...
Please stop trying to sell this as the nail in the coffin when its hardly a true representation of the final product nor the ideal use of the product. Many things need to be changed and learned. First and foremost.. CPS offsetting is not the IDEAL way of tuning, Period. Its another band-aid, but a band-aid many would rather see then leaving an open wound. 2nd- Reading 1 cylinder of ignition doesnt tell the whole story. This car has the ability to drop timing or raise on a individual cylinder to basis so 1/6 of the ignition timing is not a full representation. (yes other tunes do follow the same practice and yes its not ideal). 3rd- Tuning for max power is not the ideal practice of a street tuned vehicle, especially a tune that is used around the world for many octane levels, elevations, ambients ETC So if a tune is going to be "generic" then it needs to be conservative. There is a large misconception that more power is better. Power is great, but so is safety and consistency day to day, pull after pull. 4th- The sarcasm is not all helpful to the discussion or the point of this whole business. If you think adding quotations and talking against the people "of e90 post" is smart, just remember where the majority of all your business comes from and which forum that is. 5th- You know as well anyone else Cobb came out with stellar dyno graphs. Take a look at their AFR and Ignition tables. You will notice they are are applying ignition directly opposite of the CPS offset Terry was using. I.e. Ideally CPS offseting more ignition early and ramping ignition back up by redline would be the ideal choice. Keep the ignition lower from the get -go and it should keep any timing drop outs later from occurring. I look forward to a more mature discussion and hope you realize this is LARGELY in its infancy. |
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03-22-2011, 12:07 PM | #25 |
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Weather they are limited by hardware or knowledge their way of applying the offset is ass backwards.
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03-22-2011, 12:16 PM | #26 |
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I know what you're trying to say but then I don't understand how procede's pre-DIC ign correction worked...i thought when you specified 100% ign correction it'd apply a 3-3.5 deg retard across the board...it sounds like you're saying this isn't the case, just looking for a real explanation
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03-22-2011, 12:19 PM | #27 | |
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No clue as I never ran offsets but I remember Shiv pulling 3-4 degrees dropping to 1-2 towards redline. This was simply mapped out based on rpm and boost. I might be wrong but I remember seeing that in some people logs. As for dic....that's kind of a.joke anyway but that's for another thread.
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03-22-2011, 12:24 PM | #28 | |
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So where's the new thread then? |
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03-22-2011, 12:26 PM | #29 | |
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03-22-2011, 12:30 PM | #30 |
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here in this log i run a max of - 3.3 timing down low and - 2.5 up top. pump 94 14.5-16 psi .
Why is BMS pulling so much timing ? 6-10 degrees? no wonder it does not look good. i have seen MAX -4 on Procede.
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03-22-2011, 12:31 PM | #31 |
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03-22-2011, 12:45 PM | #32 | |
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03-22-2011, 12:58 PM | #33 | |
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Mike |
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03-22-2011, 01:00 PM | #34 | |
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03-22-2011, 01:01 PM | #35 | |
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03-22-2011, 01:03 PM | #36 | |
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no no no....tune it right from the get go please.
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03-22-2011, 01:29 PM | #37 | |
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Agreed. At this point the cps is global or a simple curve. The percentage should not apply to a defined value, but change in relation to other factors... rpm, load, vanos, acceleration, etc. it's NOT as simple as offset on or off. continue the testing. |
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03-22-2011, 02:04 PM | #38 | |
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As far as dropping timing as much as you did, realize that you are raising EGTS by doing this, being that its done with offsetting and not actually rewritting timing tables, you are also changing fueling injection points. |
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03-22-2011, 02:23 PM | #39 | ||
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Might I add 14.5 PSI is what my car tunes to on 93 octane, so its a little aggressive to say the least on 91 octane but that is neither here nor their. You are just being stubborn at this point. RE-read everything I said as well as Clap and a few other guys. Its spot on through and through. Quote:
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03-22-2011, 09:08 PM | #40 |
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Hmmm. BMS went quiet. It looks like they figured out how amateur this thread made them look. What was meant to make CPS offsetting look bad totally backfired and made them look clueless. Very poor marketing decision.
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03-22-2011, 09:30 PM | #41 | |
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The next step for this module is programming it to allow user definable offsets by RPM, boost, and gear, and then it will be easier for all of us to test various curves. The suggestion that offsetting more down low where there have not been problems with timing drops and offsetting less up top where there are drops is pretty counter intuitive. Especially given the data posted showing drops even with extreme offsets both down low and up top. During a 1/4 mile run the RPMs will never drop much below 5000rpm anyway. But the dyno will tell all and I'll certainly post the results here. Actually clap if you want to put together an RPM by RPM offset curve given the map 2 boost curve above I'll arrange to get that tested for you ASAP so we can all see the results. Mike |
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03-22-2011, 09:31 PM | #42 |
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Actually, I'm still having a tough time understanding why they are pulling so much timing up top
I thought that as rpms increase, piston speed increases and there is less time for a detonation event to form. So you want to add timing back in at higher rpms and take more out at lower rpms. How is that counter-intuitive? Clap is right......BMS seems to have it backwards. |
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03-22-2011, 09:44 PM | #43 | |
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03-22-2011, 10:07 PM | #44 | |
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Timing was added back in as rpms increased. Fundamental physics? The faster the piston is travelling the less time detonation has to form. But then how does one explain the occasional dip at 6K? 14.5 psi is probably too much boost for 91 octane. |
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