[BK]

I am about to make a Porter Cable + pads + polish purchase from Detailed Image (or maybe Autopia, PakShak or somewhere else). Even with all the information I've read so far, I'm still trying to figure some things out.

My car: black E90. 16 months old, hand washed weekly except in the winter. Several coats of Zaino. Very little swirling.

Reason for buffing:

• Car is not garaged at night, so it gets rain, snow, leaves, etc. Paint probably can use some cleaning.
• There is about a 3" by 3" area on the hood that has wet sanding marks I've never buffed out (fixing a rock chip). That sounds worse than it is -- wet sanding was by someone who knows what he's doing, but this has never been buffed since then. Only visible if you look at an angle under direct light.
• Some back and forth "swirls" on my rear bumper that looks like it's from the washing or drying process. Appears to be my fault. D'oh!
• Glass has some hard water and rain spots and could use polishing.

Questions:

Many or all of these are already answered here, but I'm asking because there is conflicting information in those answers.

• 6" pads, right? That seems to be what everyone uses.
• Which LC pads to begin with? Is just white and black (blue?) okay? Maybe white, black, and orange? People seem to use a white pad even for medium swirls.
• Menzerna PO106FF polish - would this work for my wet sand marks? Is it too aggressive to "clean" the rest of the paint, which generally is already in good condition and has no swirls?
• Do I need a finishing polish after PO106FF?
• Will Z-2/-5 and Z-CS work if I've polished with PO106FF? Zaino suggests that some polishes leave oils behind that screw up the Zaino process.
• Can I polish the windshield?
• I'll apply Zaino by hand, but I want to remove it with the PC. Does that mean I'd use a terry bonnet at a low speed? When you use a terry bonnet, do you use a "dedicated" pad just for it?
• Do any of you use a special brush or powder to clean the pads? How often? Should I expect to stop every few minutes to clean the pad?
• How much do you push down on the PC when buffing? I've read both "not at all" and "about 10-12 lbs of pressure."

Thanks for the help. I'll also continue to and read.

EDIT - damn, I can't change the thread name after submitting. It should be "Polishing supplies questions." I don't want people to come here thinking polishing supplies are for sale or something.

[Detailed Image]

Originally Posted by BK

I am about to make a Porter Cable + pads + polish purchase from Detailed Image (or maybe Autopia, PakShak or somewhere else). Even with all the information I've read so far, I'm still trying to figure some things out.

Questions:

Many or all of these are already answered here, but I'm asking because there is conflicting information in those answers.

• 6" pads, right? That seems to be what everyone uses. Pad size depends on the backing plate you plan on using. We offer a 6" backing plate so we offer the 6.5" pads to go along with it. If you wanted to use say 5.25" pads you'd want a 5" backing plate. Smaller pads on a PC give more bite to it and is beneficial to deeper paint correction. For what you are describing any pad size should be fine.
• Which LC pads to begin with? Is just white and black (blue?) okay? Maybe white, black, and orange? People seem to use a white pad even for medium swirls. The key to pad selection is matching the pad with the product you plan on applying with it. For example if you go for PO106FF, I'd use either a white polishing pad (Lake Country Colors) or an orange light cutting pad if you are looking for some more bite for deeper imperfections. A white pad and the PO106FF takes care of most surface imperfections that are caused from hand washing and drying. If you plan on applying the Z5/Z2 with the PC, the blue pads would be my choice. Another thing I like to stress is to use 1 pad per product. If you mix and match, you can hinder your results.
• Menzerna PO106FF polish - would this work for my wet sand marks? Is it too aggressive to "clean" the rest of the paint, which generally is already in good condition and has no swirls? It depends on what the last grit sand paper was used. If you stopped at 1500, you might have a difficult time removing 1500 grit with PO106FF and a PC, or it will take a LOT of passes and applications. Menzerna rates the PO106FF to remove 2500 grit sand paper marks. Menzerna rates Intensive Polish at being capable of removing 2000 grit sand paper to give a comparison. Hopefully the wet sanding was finished at 2000 grit or higher.
• Do I need a finishing polish after PO106FF? No, this is the best finishing polish that I've used, no need to follow up with any other polish.
• Will Z-2/-5 and Z-CS work if I've polished with PO106FF? Zaino suggests that some polishes leave oils behind that screw up the Zaino process. If you are worried, after polishing, simply use a mixture of Isopropyl Alcohol and water like a quick detailer. This will be sure to remove anything left behind from the PO106FF polish.
• Can I polish the windshield? Yes, but don't expect a ton of correction. Windshield repair typically requires a high speed rotary buffer (10k RPM or more).
• I'll apply Zaino by hand, but I want to remove it with the PC. Does that mean I'd use a terry bonnet at a low speed? When you use a terry bonnet, do you use a "dedicated" pad just for it? If you are going to apply by hand, I'd suggest removing by hand. Buffers are designed for applying products, not removing them. Plus you open yourself up for more error if you remove with a buffer.
• Do any of you use a special brush or powder to clean the pads? How often? Should I expect to stop every few minutes to clean the pad? Every couple of panels, I swap my pad out for a fresh one. If you don't plan on using multiple pads then take the time to brush out the product build up after every couple of panels. The biggest mistake I see when people polish is they use WAY too much product. 3 pea sized drops is all that is needed to polish a 18" x 18" area. More product means you have to work the polish in that much longer to properly break it down. I'll use a medium bristled tooth brush to clean out the pad every couple of panels. Simply run it at a low speed and glide the brush along the pad (do this away from your vehicle!).
• How much do you push down on the PC when buffing? I've read both "not at all" and "about 10-12 lbs of pressure." When polishing tp remove imperfections, I apply about 20lbs of pressure, or just shy of bogging the unit down. If I bog the buffer down, back off until it spins properly, and that should be your working pressure. When it comes to paint correction, pressure is necessary to properly break down the polish with a PC. For sealants or waxes, I just use the weight of the buffer and lower speed settings. Speaking of speed settings, when polishing with the PO106FF go right to speed 5 or 6 after spreading the polish around.

Thanks for the help. I'll also continue to and read.

EDIT - damn, I can't change the thread name after submitting. It should be "Polishing supplies questions." I don't want people to come here thinking polishing supplies are for sale or something.

If you have any other questions, please do not hesitate to ask! Let us know how things turn out for you.

George

[FMINUS]

skip the PC, get the FLEX!

[ianbiz]

Originally Posted by FMINUS

skip the PC, get the FLEX!

The FLEX? What is this FLEX thing you speak of?

[Raz335]

Originally Posted by ianbiz

The FLEX? What is this FLEX thing you speak of?

Flex is a German manufacturer of power tools. They make both a Dual action polisher and a regular circular polisher.

FLEX FTMFW!

http://www.autogeek.net/flex-car-polishers.html

[BK]

Thanks, guys! FMINUS, I assume you're referring to the Flex 3401? It looks like George offers that, too. I'll have to do some reading on it. Is it as "idiot proof" as the PC? Does it take the same LCC pads?

EDIT - It looks like there were some answers between the time I opened this thread and the time I posted to it. Does anyone here on e90post use the Flex? I thought the PC was the gold standard for random orbitals.

[mosport70]

BK

I have a Flex (that I bought from George actually) and I will say it makes quick work of any polishing job.

A buddy and I regularly use his two PCs on several cars but once he tried my FLEX he made an immediate purchase. For him it was simply that much better.

We polished his X5 in about 2/3 time as with the PC. We also tended to use less polish because it is so effective.

The problem with the Flex is the cost which is twice as much as PC. I find the vibrations to be less with the Flex and the noise is comparable, if not a bit more tolerable.

I have found you need at least 6.5in pads with the Flex and be sure to get one with the Black backing plate. The red plate has a fault with the adhesive. Flex stood by their product and provided the black replacement plate (which is a better design as well) for free. George sent that plate to me for free as well, so I can also give for his service.

Build quality is first rate but I have only owned it a short while.

My only misgiving is whether it is too effective... I really need a paint gauge to make sure I'm not taking too much clear off the car each time I polish (which is about twice a year, except for spot polishing).

[FMINUS]

The new FLEX plates also have a soft backing.

When you get good with the FLEX, move on to the Metabo. The Metabo kills the FLEX as the FLEX kills the PC

[ianbiz]

So for a newbie a PC would be better?

[BK]

I've done a lot of reading and it looks like everyone is very happy with the FLEX, apart from the adhesive problem on the original Velcro back. I am not super price sensitive (um, I shouldn't say that with George watching!), so I think I'll jump on the FLEX bandwagon. To answer ianbiz - it looks like the FLEX is okay for a careful newbie, as long as I don't go crazy with pressure or speed, it looks like I can't really damage the paint.

It looks like it is currently back ordered until at least January, but that shouldn't be a problem since it's winter and I have no indoor place to polish.

I'm wondering about applying and removing the Z2/Z5 with the FLEX. I don't mind applying it by hand, it's the removing that I don't like. I use currently a plush MF towel to buff it off, followed by Z6 QD to fully remove it. This wears me out to the point where I don't feel like putting on another layer. Is it easier to apply and remove Zaino with a buffer? Speed of 1 or 2, black pad to apply, lambswool pad and bonnet to remove, or what?

I'm thinking: FLEX 3401, 2 pads each of orange, white, and black (dimpled or flat?), 106FF, maybe a few new MF towels to round it out.

[BK]

UPDATE - Ordered the FLEX, some orange, white, and blue pads, and 106FF. Christmas present to myself.

Now I want some warmer temperatures, so I can actually use the stuff!

[Takumi587]

Originally Posted by BK

UPDATE - Ordered the FLEX, some orange, white, and blue pads, and 106FF. Christmas present to myself.

Now I want some warmer temperatures, so I can actually use the stuff!

Damn Thank goodness you bought the FLEX! Works way better than that outdated PC. Make sure you get some MF Polishing towels too makes everything WAY EASIER!!!

[Detailed Image]

BTW anyone thinking of the Flex, we got a surprise shipment of them and right now we have a very limited supply of them in stock . I expect them to be gone in a day or two, but as of now if you are looking, we have them in stock.

Happy Holidays!

George