[Chief Orman]

Originally Posted by 32valves

where is this pure methanol at?

Looking for a racing fuel supplier in your area. I found on in Nor. Cal. and it sure beats buying boost juice from online suppliers. Moreover, per the comment above the water/meth companies can't ship product with more than 50% methanol because it will be classified as a hazardous material, i.e., shipping would be prohibitively expensive.

Big Foot Speed and Performance in Virginia can help.

[Hoooper]

I see chief found the same guys I use. ERC seems to be good guys and the price is pretty good. Any good race shop should either sell it or know where to get it. You also might find it by asking for c16 or alcohol fuel suppliers

[Puerto Rican 335d]

Gracias Chief if you decide to go a la bench flash. You will see why we rave about our cars you will be in the 340 whp plus section and 474 wtq like me but can be enhanced even further and trust me you will grin to your grave. Congratulations Im leaning now more than ever to do it but first we will clean out the intakes and move forward from there

[Chief Orman]

Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d

Gracias Chief if you decide to go a la bench flash. You will see why we rave about our cars you will be in the 340 whp plus section and 474 wtq like me but can be enhanced even further and trust me you will grin to your grave. Congratulations Im leaning now more than ever to do it but first we will clean out the intakes and move forward from there

PR I hear you. With regard to what water meth can provide, just look at the performance numbers that Hooper has reported...if memory serves 0-60 5.4 seconds and a 12.9 quarter mile.

Hooper obviously chime in if I got your numbers wrong, but given that we are seeing very fast numbers with pretty modest changes to the engine (I.e., no dpf removal, piggyback not reflash and only EGR block) I think it demonstrates how well suited the 335d is to water meth injection. Duh, given that most water meth systems are designed for diesel trucks. Nevertheless I would have done this mod long ago had I known the scale of the power gain.

I have learned a lot on these boards (e.g., how not to light your car on fire). Thanks to folks like DWR, Hooper, TDI, etc. I better understand the trade offs of these systems. However I need to learn how to log engine parameters, interpret them, etc. It is important to me that my car is reliable and safe enough to remain my daily driver.

[GaryE30]

How are you handling the CEL / SES that would come on due to EGR block. Do you have that coded out?

This seems like a good route to take for increasing engine performance and reliability (CBU inhibiting) at a reasonable cost vs performance tuning the ECU.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Just as an FYI. 50/50 mix is still flammable. The 335i guys have seen this firsthand and I know a few personally. There issue was the windshield washer tank being used as the methanol storage. Make sure you keep the methanol stored in the trunk and yes a fire extinguisher is still recommended.

[Hoooper]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

Just as an FYI. 50/50 mix is still flammable. The 335i guys have seen this firsthand and I know a few personally. There issue was the windshield washer tank being used as the methanol storage. Make sure you keep the methanol stored in the trunk and yes a fire extinguisher is still recommended.

Out of curiousity, since mine is a windshield washer tank installation, what was the issue with the windshield washer tank? I have had mine running the washer tank for almost 2 years now, anything from 50/50 to over 75/25 without any issues but I prefer not to be operating on borrowed time.

[Chief Orman]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

Out of curiousity, since mine is a windshield washer tank installation, what was the issue with the windshield washer tank? I have had mine running the washer tank for almost 2 years now, anything from 50/50 to over 75/25 without any issues but I prefer not to be operating on borrowed time.

I called Snow Performance and told them that I am running a 70/30 mix and asked what I can do to make my car safer. They strongly recommended I buy steel braided tubing and stainless steel fittings. I am also going to install another solenoid where the line enters the engine bay to help ensure that no meth flows into any of the piping in an emergency shut down. I am also going to get upgraded steel braided lines for the tank pump attachments. I wish I had thought this through more carefully out of the gate, but $200 worth of upgraded equipment has solved the problem.

I have to tell you that based on Carly and Torque Pro temperature observations (I still have not had time to learn how to download the log files but will tomorrow), a 50/50 meth water mix does not have a very big impact on lowering EGTs vis-à-vis a 70/30 meth water mix. However, there is a HUGE difference in performance. Moreover, given that I can only control the spray using turbo boost versus boost and RPM, our cars are susceptible to quenching with a 50/50 mix at low RPM. A 70/30 mix totally removes the quenching problem. Also according to Snow I am running a undersize primary nozzle (175mm) versus what they recommend so I think that our cars are unusually sensitive to quenching unless there is something that I am not aware of (e.g., my nozzle configuration is sub optimal).

I hope to get the new lines and hardware installed early next week.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

Out of curiousity, since mine is a windshield washer tank installation, what was the issue with the windshield washer tank? I have had mine running the washer tank for almost 2 years now, anything from 50/50 to over 75/25 without any issues but I prefer not to be operating on borrowed time.

335i guys have been known to use pure methanol, at high flow rates, for 1/4 mile runs. There have been anecdotal stories about fire(s).

[iaknown]

Originally Posted by Chief Orman

I called Snow Performance and told them that I am running a 70/30 mix and asked what I can do to make my car safer. They strongly recommended I buy steel braided tubing and stainless steel fittings. I am also going to install another solenoid where the line enters the engine bay to help ensure that no meth flows into any of the piping in an emergency shut down. I am also going to get upgraded steel braided lines for the tank pump attachments. I wish I had thought this through more carefully out of the gate, but $200 worth of upgraded equipment has solved the problem.

I have to tell you that based on Carly and Torque Pro temperature observations (I still have not had time to learn how to download the log files but will tomorrow), a 50/50 meth water mix does not have a very big impact on lowering EGTs vis-à-vis a 70/30 meth water mix. However, there is a HUGE difference in performance. Moreover, given that I can only control the spray using turbo boost versus boost and RPM, our cars are susceptible to quenching with a 50/50 mix at low RPM. A 70/30 mix totally removes the quenching problem. Also according to Snow I am running a undersize primary nozzle (175mm) versus what they recommend so I think that our cars are unusually sensitive to quenching unless there is something that I am not aware of (e.g., my nozzle configuration is sub optimal).

I hope to get the new lines and hardware installed early next week.

50/50 should provide all of the EGT lowering you need, depending on the quantity of course. But I see you are injecting a fairly low amount for our cars. With 50/50 at around 660cc's total that will lower your EGT's enough to be able to overfuel it and still keep things safe.

And I said it in another thread and will say it again. Watch running too much meth to water ratio, especially if you increase your nozzle size. This can lead to detonation in a CR diesel. There's some pretty interesting (and horrific) stories on the truck forums about this.

[Chief Orman]

Originally Posted by iaknown

50/50 should provide all of the EGT lowering you need, depending on the quantity of course. But I see you are injecting a fairly low amount for our cars. With 50/50 at around 660cc's total that will lower your EGT's enough to be able to overfuel it and still keep things safe.

And I said it in another thread and will say it again. Watch running too much meth to water ratio, especially if you increase your nozzle size. This can lead to detonation in a CR diesel. There's some pretty interesting (and horrific) stories on the truck forums about this.

IA...thanks for the information. I really don't think I am going to up my nozzle size. I am staggered by the amount of power I am getting from a 175mm nozzle and with a 375mm power nozzle. That said, I like running a higher ratio of meth not only for the power but the car runs much better than with a 50/50 mix. So unless you think I am crazy I am going to keep running undersized nozzles with relatively more meth.

By the way, I am using DWR's PIDs for TorquePro and with a 70/30 water meth and with a 50/50 water meth I am still reaching 1,200 degrees pre DPF filter. I would have thought I would see lower temps. Any thoughts on this front?

[iaknown]

Originally Posted by Chief Orman

IA...thanks for the information. I really don't think I am going to up my nozzle size. I am staggered by the amount of power I am getting from a 175mm nozzle and with a 375mm power nozzle. That said, I like running a higher ratio of meth not only for the power but the car runs much better than with a 50/50 mix. So unless you think I am crazy I am going to keep running undersized nozzles with relatively more meth.

By the way, I am using DWR's PIDs for TorquePro and with a 70/30 water meth and with a 50/50 water meth I am still reaching 1,200 degrees pre DPF filter. I would have thought I would see lower temps. Any thoughts on this front?

Oh, you still have your dpf in....That changes things. What did you see without any water/meth injection? Just keep it under the stock temperature if possible.

[Chief Orman]

Originally Posted by iaknown

Oh, you still have your dpf in....That changes things. What did you see without any water/meth injection? Just keep it under the stock temperature if possible.

Great question and I am embarrassed to confess that I have not yet done a true back to back comparison.

If you were running a 50/50 mix what nozzle sizes would you or do you use? Again my primary is 175mm from 12psi to 26psi and my secondary 375mm kicks in at 27psi.

[iaknown]

Originally Posted by Chief Orman

Great question and I am embarrassed to confess that I have not yet done a true back to back comparison.

If you were running a 50/50 mix what nozzle sizes would you or do you use? Again my primary is 175mm from 12psi to 26psi and my secondary 375mm kicks in at 27psi.

Well I run 50/50 but I'm running an amount that wouldn't be beneficial for you, I wouldn't recommend it because 1) your dpf is still on and 2) I can run progressively instead of in stages. You might be able to increase your 2nd stage to make around 6-700 total and you should be ok. But it's hard to tell because your setup is totally different.

[Whitbread]

Originally Posted by iaknown

Well I'm running an amount that wouldn't be beneficial for you, I wouldn't recommend it because 1) your dpf is still on and 2) I can run progressively instead of in stages. You might be able to increase your 2nd stage to make around 6-700 total and you should be ok. But it's hard to tell because your setup is totally different than mine.

I take it you're running an aquamist progressive or similar?

[Chief Orman]

Originally Posted by iaknown

Well I run 50/50 but I'm running an amount that wouldn't be beneficial for you, I wouldn't recommend it because 1) your dpf is still on and 2) I can run progressively instead of in stages. You might be able to increase your 2nd stage to make around 6-700 total and you should be ok. But it's hard to tell because your setup is totally different.

my setup is progressive to the extent that at 12psi I get 30% flow from the pump increasing to 100% when I hit 26psi. That said the second power nozzle comes on at 100% full blast 27psi.

[Whitbread]

Originally Posted by Chief Orman

my setup is progressive to the extent that at 12psi I get 30% flow from the pump increasing to 100% when I hit 26psi. That said the second power nozzle comes on at 100% full blast 27psi.

I meant progressive in terms of PWM nozzle control with fixed pump pressure, like a normal gas efi fuel injector .

[iaknown]

Originally Posted by Whitbread

I meant progressive in terms of PWM nozzle control with fixed pump pressure, like a normal gas efi fuel injector .

Yes this is my setup.... Constant pump pressure, pulse width to a solenoid. Controlled by a piggyback.

[Chief Orman]

Originally Posted by Whitbread

I meant progressive in terms of PWM nozzle control with fixed pump pressure, like a normal gas efi fuel injector .

Actually that is my setup as well...I am running the latest Power Max system from Snow Performance. However unlike aquamist it is only controlled by turbo boost pressure.

[Chief Orman]

Originally Posted by iaknown

Oh, you still have your dpf in....That changes things. What did you see without any water/meth injection? Just keep it under the stock temperature if possible.

OK just finished doing a back to back comparison of EGTs pre DPF as measured by DWR's PID on Torque Pro. With a 70/30 meth water ratio, my EGTs got as high as 1,275 under full acceleration. With the system turned off, under full acceleration, I hit a 1,000 degrees. So much for cooling. Obviously the meth is kicking up both power and EGTs. I then reduced my water/meth mix to approximately 50/50. My max temp went to 1,100...lower but still higher than having the system turned off. That said, the car is still a hell of a lot more powerful even with the 50/50 mix. However, it is also much more prone to quenching and I have to be careful that I wait to at least 12psi before the system starts spraying...any lower and I get quenching.

When all is said and done, the system is NOT lowering, but increasing my EGTs. What gives? Is the extra power being generated just overwhelming any cooling impact from the water? What am I missing here?

When I think back on one of the old posters on this board, Ronin, I am now convinced that the reason he fried his DPF because he was running too much meth and generating high EGTs.

If anyone has any ideas on what else might be at work with respect to increased EGTs, I am all ears. I don't want to increase the water content beyond 50/50 for drivability issues.

I am now wondering if water/meth was a good way to increase my car's power vis-à-vis a Jarek tune.

[Puerto Rican 335d]

Chief, yes RONIN burnt his DPF and the bastard got it reinstalled under warranty and again he fried up his second DPF. Kind of miss him in the forums a cool guy.

try installing a bigger IC maybe that will lower intake temps , maybe Im wrong on this but you never know and BTW WAGNEr is being based out of Cali just in case.

[Chief Orman]

Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d

Chief, yes RONIN burnt his DPF and the bastard got it reinstalled under warranty and again he fried up his second DPF. Kind of miss him in the forums a cool guy.

try installing a bigger IC maybe that will lower intake temps , maybe Im wrong on this but you never know and BTW WAGNEr is being based out of Cali just in case.

I am going to upgrade my intercooler. Just put in an order to do so.

With regard to the water meth, I love it but I also feel like perhaps the principal of more more power, more heat is at work.