[packinDSS]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Yep... Imagine what a single unlocked DME flashing/programming unit will do to a market. And to the wallet of the team that took the time and spent the resources to develop it.

Shiv

.

[marinellie]

So what does a v4 current owner miss out on by not changing it to a v5?? I take it I missed something along the line?????

[themyst]

this reminds me of the day when Apple announced in-app purchases. dark day for us all

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by bryans2k

Its a rip to have to pay any amount of money to resale. Not only does the person who buys the unit have to pay $150 but the person selling has to pay too since the unit they are selling is useless without it. This is utter BS and greed.

Bryan

I think you miss the part where the used buyer (or seller) can backdate to V4 and not have to deal with any such licensing.

Utter BS and Greed would dictate something else

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by marinellie

So what does a v4 current owner miss out on by not changing it to a v5?? I take it I missed something along the line?????

Right now, just NA mode and advanced traction/launch control. Feel free to hold off updating to v5 until we release something that you really want. It's not like anyone is slumming it with v4.

And as mentioned before, current Rev.2 users are exempt from the pay-per-map model when new maps/modes are released in the future.

Shiv

[marinellie]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Right now, just NA mode and advanced traction/launch control. Feel free to hold off updating to v5 until we release something that you really want. It's not like anyone is slumming it with v4.

Shiv

Those sound good enough for me to update date now..... Why wait.

[onesuperboi]

Originally Posted by pits200

The point is, at least with the flash people knew that they couldn't transfer the flash to another vehicle. While with the procede every person who purchased thought they could transfer it at will and was one of the selling aspects.

Im not denying the quality of the procede at all, its a fantastic product but I just dislike this bait and switch tactic. I mean, I probably wont even be selling this car for 3 or 4 years, so it's a moot point for me, but it's just an overall complaint with the marketing.

I understand your point now. It might be a bait and switch, but we have to think about it Vishnu's perspective. I think they want better protection of their product since anther competitor is basically copying their new features and probably reverse engineering. He did say it was a security issue.

[Constant.S]

Originally Posted by onesuperboi

I understand your point now. It might be a bait and switch, but we have to think about it Vishnu's perspective. I think they want better protection of their product since anther competitor is basically copying their new features and probably reverse engineering. He did say it was a security issue.

+100
It would be much worse if someone reversed engineered the V5 and sold a cheap version of it for 400 dollars... There goes your resale value then...

[BMW1986]

Since I don't have a Procede; if I made this purchase what would I be getting? Shiv: any reason why you never designed a JB+ setup??

[bryans2k]

He's lucky he's not apple. I could see someone wanting to sue for bait and switch. I don't know if I will buy one or not. I understand he needs to make money on such a small market but this is plain and simple. It's aimed to make money even on resale. I've been modifying every car I've had for years and I have always sold what I could when I was done. You will take a loss but this just makes it worse and for what? So he can make another $150 and you don't? He wants to justify it by saying they could just downgrade to v4 if they wanted but that isn't what he has advertised for this product up till now.

[Glowin]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

current Rev.2 users who want to ... sell the Procede to someone else, they can either:

-not update to v5. So that the Procede never VIN locks to their car
-have the new user backdate to v4 which doesn't restrict based upon VIN (even if the Procede was running v5 before and already VIN locked to the seller's car)
-have the new user purchase a new VIN license and run v5

Shiv

So if I upgrade to V5, it locks onto my VIN. But I can downgrade to V4 after, and sell the Procede to someone else, who can use it without paying the additional license fee. But if they want to then upgrade the unit to V5, they'll have to pay for the license?

Is that correct?

But I thought you said that it's not the hardware that's locked to your VIN?

So wouldn't flashing it to V4 "clean" it, and then be able to always go back to V5 and the hardware doesn't know it was previously locked to another VIN?

They seem to be contradictory... Sorry for my confusion! I just want to understand before upgrading to V5 how it will affect my resale value, as if it can only lock once without paying a fee, it may be better for those wanting to sell, never to upgrade theirs to V5, and advertise it as never having been VIN locked...

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by bryans2k

He's lucky he's not apple. I could see someone wanting to sue for bait and switch. I don't know if I will buy one or not. I understand he needs to make money on such a small market but this is plain and simple. It's aimed to make money even on resale. I've been modifying every car I've had for years and I have always sold what I could when I was done. You will take a loss but this just makes it worse and for what? So he can make another $150 and you don't? He wants to justify it by saying they could just downgrade to v4 if they wanted but that isn't what he has advertised for this product up till now.

Bryan,

Do you understand that old "old" rev2s will not be subject to the pay-per-map pricing system? Even for future maps as they are made available. That means for each additional map we make optional for new Rev2 users, old Rev2s will have them enabled free of charge. Even if they are sold to someone else in the used market.

So that means, if anything, "old" Rev2s will appreciate on the used market as time goes by.

Shiv

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Glowin

So if I upgrade to V5, it locks onto my VIN. But I can downgrade to V4 after, and sell the Procede to someone else, who can use it without paying the additional license fee. But if they want to then upgrade the unit to V5, they'll have to pay for the license?

Is that correct? But I thought you said that it's not the hardware that's locked to your VIN?

So wouldn't flashing it to V4 "clean" it, and then be able to always go back to V5 and the hardware doesn't know it was previously locked to another VIN?

They seem to be contradictory... Sorry for my confusion! I just want to understand before upgrading to V5.

Flashing back to v4 and then back to v5 does not clear the VIN lock memory. So the used buyer has the option of either running v4 from that point on and not spending another penny. Or purchasing a new VIN license, running v5, and being grandfathered in to not purchasing new map activations as they come out. Fair to everything I believe.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by BMW1986

Since I don't have a Procede; if I made this purchase what would I be getting? Shiv: any reason why you never designed a JB+ setup??

At $645, you would be getting a fully functional Autotuning Procede with all the following features:
Plug and Play (PnP) Harness
AutoTuning
Vishnu Command Center
Closed-Loop Ignition Timing Control
Automatic Wastegate Compensation
In-Dash Multi-Informational Displays
On-the-fly Mapswitching
DME code reading/clearing
Built-in Wideband AFR Monitoring
High-Speed Datalogging
In-Dash Trouble Code Display
Isolated PID Boost Control
Speed Delimiter
Diagnostic Invisibility
Adjustable/Audible Shift Alert
Diagnostic Adaptation Resets
Wastegate Rattle Fix
20PSI Boost Limit
User Adjustability
Spark Retard 6AT Launch Control (NEW!)
Spark Retard Performance Traction Control (NEW!)

If you want the option of running the NA map, it's just $50 extra. Same with Progressive methanol and nitrous.

Cheers,
shiv

[Glowin]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Flashing back to v4 and then back to v5 does not clear the VIN lock memory. So the used buyer has the option of either running v4 from that point on and not spending another penny. Or purchasing a new VIN license, running v5, and being grandfathered in to not purchasing new map activations as they come out. Fair to everything I believe.

Thanks for explaining. So if one never upgrades to V5 before selling, you're selling a Procede with all the features, that's never been VIN locked, and can be upgraded to V5 for free (vs. having to pay a license fee), which should be worth more I'd think...

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Glowin

Thanks for explaining. So if one never upgrades to V5 before selling, you're selling a Procede that's never been VIN locked and can be upgraded to V5 for free (vs. paying a license), which should be worth more I'd think...

I can't predict the price of used products anymore than I can predict what will and wont piss other people off lol.

But yes, if one doesn't update to V5, their Rev.2 should demand an especially high value in the used market since no VIN unlock is required to run v5 on another car AND since all future map activations will be free.

I never realized that purchasing a tune was so speculative!

[cn555ic]

Piracy is a major issue for many companies, and its sad to say but this is the only alternative to combat piracy....Business is business period..

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Bryan,

Do you understand that old "old" rev2s will not be subject to the pay-per-map pricing system? Even for future maps as they are made available. That means for each additional map we make optional for new Rev2 users, old Rev2s will have them enabled free of charge. Even if they are sold to someone else in the used market.

So that means, if anything, "old" Rev2s will appreciate on the used market as time goes by.

Shiv

I guess you will distinguish from old users via the serial number of the actual Procede unit correct?

[themyst]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I can't predict the price of used products anymore than I can predict what will and wont piss other people off lol.

But yes, if one doesn't update to V5, their Rev.2 should demand an especially high value in the used market since no VIN unlock is required to run on another car AND all future map activations will be free.

I never realized that purchasing a tune was so speculative!

so Shiv, if I never updated to "101" I'm not VIN locked, right? I'm currently running #30.

I'm installing the tune on my 335i tomorrow, so I just don't want to run into any unexpected issues during the install.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

I guess you will distinguish from old users via the serial number of the actual Procede unit correct?

Yep... and the new Procede unit have a different bootloader so the firmware will know what kind of Procede it is being uploaded to.

Originally Posted by themyst

so Shiv, if I never updated to "101" I'm not VIN locked, right? I'm currently running #30.

I'm installing the tune on my 335i tomorrow, so I just don't want to run into any unexpected issues during the install.

The private v5 beta maps did not VIN lock. They just VIN read. So correct, you are good to when installing into your new car tomorrow. But hypothetically speaking, even if your Procede was VIN locked to your previous car (it's not), we'd give you a free VIN license for your new car

Shiv

[BMW1986]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

At $645, you would be getting a fully functional Autotuning Procede with all the following features:
Plug and Play (PnP) Harness
AutoTuning
Vishnu Command Center
Closed-Loop Ignition Timing Control
Automatic Wastegate Compensation
In-Dash Multi-Informational Displays
On-the-fly Mapswitching
DME code reading/clearing
Built-in Wideband AFR Monitoring
High-Speed Datalogging
In-Dash Trouble Code Display
Isolated PID Boost Control
Speed Delimiter
Diagnostic Invisibility
Adjustable/Audible Shift Alert
Diagnostic Adaptation Resets
Wastegate Rattle Fix
20PSI Boost Limit
User Adjustability
Spark Retard 6AT Launch Control (NEW!)
Spark Retard Performance Traction Control (NEW!)

If you want the option of running the NA map, it's just $50 extra. Same with Progressive methanol and nitrous.

Cheers,
shiv

Thanks shiv! What do you mean by NA map? Sorry; I'm trying to figure out your LINGO LOLOL! Are you able to purchase certain options at a later date? Also, any reason why no plug and play into the T-MAP sensor?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by BMW1986

Thanks shiv! What do you mean by NA map? Sorry; I'm trying to figure out your LINGO LOLOL! Are you able to purchase certain options at a later date? Also, any reason why no plug and play into the T-MAP sensor?

oh.. NA means Naturally Aspirated map. When activated (by cruise control stalk), it basically turns your 335 to a 160bhp road stormer. Great on fuel economy, great for bad weather and great for lead-footed kids. But not what you want to run if you want to have some fun.

And the reason we never came out with a SST/JB+ like product is because they aren't good tunes. Do it right or not at all

Shiv