[gtabfknkdnme]

Originally Posted by fishmando

Anyone who says ' cars with air suspension can't handle' should try riding in a car with a high-end air suspension system.

There are cheapo coilovers and there are high-end coilovers, the results vary completely depending on what you run. Another example, some people adjust their corner heights on coilovers without getting a quality alignment, while other member's on here are obsessed with dialing in compression and rebound settings until the perfect handling characteristics are achieved.



Do you think the engineers at Porsche who designed this for the Panamera were the same guys who designed the air springs used on Honda Civics over a decade ago? A lot has changed since 1999

pwnd.

fkn newbs.

[ForgedDistributing]

Originally Posted by fishmando

Anyone who says ' cars with air suspension can't handle' should try riding in a car with a high-end air suspension system.

There are cheapo coilovers and there are high-end coilovers, the results vary completely depending on what you run. Another example, some people adjust their corner heights on coilovers without getting a quality alignment, while other member's on here are obsessed with dialing in compression and rebound settings until the perfect handling characteristics are achieved.



Do you think the engineers at Porsche who designed this for the Panamera were the same guys who designed the air springs used on Honda Civics over a decade ago? A lot has changed since 1999

[SharkBait]

Originally Posted by fishmando

Do you think the engineers at Porsche who designed this for the Panamera were the same guys who designed the air springs used on Honda Civics over a decade ago? A lot has changed since 1999

The Panamera has an amazing suspension that uses air bladders but the whole suspension was designed with that in mind. The air bladders on the Panamera are dynamic and adaptive, tied into the traction control and way more sophisticated than any after market bolt-on. You can't lower the Panamera down to the rims. Why? Because the suspension wasn't designed to be that low. Can you adjust the height manually? Only a little. Why? Because the suspension works best when within certain ride heights.

Same applies to the E9x. Run it outside of its intended ride height by a significant margin and your suspension geometry is beyond its design limits.

A top end air system might be as good as an average coilover setup but when you drop it to the ground like that and stretch a tiny tire over a giant rim, all bets are off. You're totally out of the intended geometry and your tires are compromised. I've been in similar cars both modded equally. One bagged, one with a track suspension. The difference is huge. The air car was way more comfortable but had very little feedback. The track suspension car was rough and unforgiving but gave you 100% more feel and control.

In my opinion, your mods are cosmetic. You are going for a look which is totally fine. But let's be realistic about the impact on performance. Performance isn't always sexy, doesn't always look the best, and can be downright uncomfortable. You went in a different direction. No disrespect intended.

[PrivateSoftcore]

Dude compares pile of shit airbag systems designed only to slam a car to a state of the art system designed for a porsche which is used to reduce the compromise between comfort and performance, and not to slam a car.

These are the types of idiots that air bag a bmw in the first place.


It's like arguing that the $60 air scoops people buy for their BMW has performance advantages because Formula 1 cars have a ram air type intake.

[wafik]

Originally Posted by PrivateSoftcore

Dude compares pile of shit airbag systems designed only to slam a car to a state of the art system designed for a porsche which is used to reduce the compromise between comfort and performance, and not to slam a car.

These are the types of idiots that air bag a bmw in the first place.


It's like arguing that the $60 air scoops people buy for their BMW has performance advantages because Formula 1 cars have a ram air type intake.

Calm down dude

[BoogeyMan'sBMW]

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=848298

[Chris_506]

theres one somewhere on here that is poop brown, anyone with the pics of that?

[Chris_506]

oh wait nvm, is the one one the link above my previous comment

[bamboostk86]

Originally Posted by wafik

Calm down dude

y hes right

[s10g0d]

Originally Posted by SCSRe92

theres one somewhere on here that is poop brown, anyone with the pics of that?

[skate_E92]

Originally Posted by PrivateSoftcore

Dude compares pile of shit airbag systems designed only to slam a car to a state of the art system designed for a porsche which is used to reduce the compromise between comfort and performance, and not to slam a car.

These are the types of idiots that air bag a bmw in the first place.


It's like arguing that the $60 air scoops people buy for their BMW has performance advantages because Formula 1 cars have a ram air type intake.

shit air bag systems? idiots that bag bmw's?

[fishmando]

Originally Posted by SharkBait

The Panamera has an amazing suspension that uses air bladders but the whole suspension was designed with that in mind. The air bladders on the Panamera are dynamic and adaptive, tied into the traction control and way more sophisticated than any after market bolt-on. You can't lower the Panamera down to the rims. Why? Because the suspension wasn't designed to be that low. Can you adjust the height manually? Only a little. Why? Because the suspension works best when within certain ride heights.

Same applies to the E9x. Run it outside of its intended ride height by a significant margin and your suspension geometry is beyond its design limits.

A top end air system might be as good as an average coilover setup but when you drop it to the ground like that and stretch a tiny tire over a giant rim, all bets are off. You're totally out of the intended geometry and your tires are compromised. I've been in similar cars both modded equally. One bagged, one with a track suspension. The difference is huge. The air car was way more comfortable but had very little feedback. The track suspension car was rough and unforgiving but gave you 100% more feel and control.

In my opinion, your mods are cosmetic. You are going for a look which is totally fine. But let's be realistic about the impact on performance. Performance isn't always sexy, doesn't always look the best, and can be downright uncomfortable. You went in a different direction. No disrespect intended.

You make some really good points here.

I think it's safe to assume that the OE Panamera system was designed with a massive R&D budget by some of the world's top suspension engineers. I'm not claiming that some $2500-4000 aftermarket kit is going to be as good, or even CLOSE to as good. My point was that anyone who says air ride is bad for handling ACROSS THE BOARD is just spewing misinformation.

Maybe some day the aftermarket will catch up with the OEs in terms of adaptive valving, multi-volume expansion chambers (eg. ping tanks) and other sophisticated features make the $7,500.00 OE systems ride so comfortably while maintaining sporty handling! The difficulty is price.

Think of it this way, there is more interest here in the USA in BC Racing, Tein and KSport coilover kits then in AST, Penske, JRZ, Ohlins, Moton setups (according to search interest tabulated by google). One of the reasons for this is price. A company like Air Lift (big air suspension manufacturer) is going to make more money if they design air suspension for the typical aftermarket automotive consumer. Let's say Air Lift partnered with the engineers at Porsche and Bentley to make their "Performance" air suspension instead of teaming up with BC Racing. If this were the case, we can assume that their suspension kits would be in the $7,500 price range (typical online price if one needed to order a replacement OEM Panamera suspension) without control system, vs. their current BC Racing based suspension which comes in at $2,500 for an e90.

[mod_police]

Originally Posted by PrivateSoftcore

Dude compares pile of shit airbag systems designed only to slam a car to a state of the art system designed for a porsche which is used to reduce the compromise between comfort and performance, and not to slam a car.

These are the types of idiots that air bag a bmw in the first place.

Yeah, those idiots at BMW bag the rear of the 5 series.

Originally Posted by PrivateSoftcore

It's like arguing that the $60 air scoops people buy for their BMW has performance advantages because Formula 1 cars have a ram air type intake.

No, it's not. Air ride has proven to be more versatile in terms of performance than coil-overs at the same price point. There's plenty of information out there, do a little research.

You've clearly never driven or had a ride in a car with air struts designed for performance. They're not slammed to the ground at all times and, in most cases, drive at height only slightly lower than stock.

[fishmando]

Originally Posted by PrivateSoftcore

These are the types of idiots that air bag a bmw in the first place.

Originally Posted by mod_police

Yeah, those idiots at BMW bag the rear of the 5 series.

Mod police just came in to lay down the law