[Chefcg1]

Originally Posted by roozie2001

my car is German. My TV and surround sound are Japanese. I have cologne that's made in France. But i live in America. So i guess if i buy a product made in china that puts money in a guys pocket that lives in Chicagoooo its Un-American of me. Hmmmmm. Hey Vince thanks for not including the ridiculous BMW mark up. Even if your DPs make 2whp less than the competition's. Im gonna rest easy knowing i paid $300 less than the other suckers did for some pipes.

+1. Vince offered what looks to be a great product for a reasonable price. I personally can't wait to see how these are reviewed after they are in the hands of the consumer and not judged by board members with no experience with them. Let the product speak for its self, we should all hear soon as Vince has started shipping out the DP’s. From the pictures I’ve seen and from the few individual that have seen them in person the quality looks top notch. I learned a long time ago with several of my other cars and personally working with turbo development companies in the Mitsubishi and Toyota communities that price does NOT constitute better. VK will soon show if they are good or not, we as actual product consumers will judge them and let our peers know. Until then give Vince or any new developer a little slack. We need to all remember they are trying to help us out with a cheaper quality product
Vince, I personally cannot wait to get my DP’s and I assure you and everyone here on the board I will do a non biased review of them , good or bad it will be honest.

[Vince@ V K Motorwerks]

Originally Posted by Chefcg1

+1. Vince offered what looks to be a great product for a reasonable price. I personally can't wait to see how these are reviewed after they are in the hands of the consumer and not judged by board members with no experience with them. Let the product speak for its self, we should all hear soon as Vince has started shipping out the DP’s. From the pictures I’ve seen and from the few individual that have seen them in person the quality looks top notch. I learned a long time ago with several of my other cars and personally working with turbo development companies in the Mitsubishi and Toyota communities that price does NOT constitute better. VK will soon show if they are good or not, we as actual product consumers will judge them and let our peers know. Until then give Vince or any new developer a little slack. We need to all remember they are trying to help us out with a cheaper quality product
Vince, I personally cannot wait to get my DP’s and I assure you and everyone here on the board I will do a non biased review of them , good or bad it will be honest.

Thank you, I look forward to your review. I am confident that you will love them.

[mwahlert]

have they shipped?

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Vince seems to have done well on the products he has presented to the community thus far. I didn't mean to start this massive snowball. I was just saying that this argument is about to hit the community.

As I have stated before, Vince and I have chatted before as I have expressed interest in some of his products.

[cu_north]

Originally Posted by Chefcg1

+1. Vince offered what looks to be a great product for a reasonable price. I personally can't wait to see how these are reviewed after they are in the hands of the consumer and not judged by board members with no experience with them. Let the product speak for its self, we should all hear soon as Vince has started shipping out the DP’s. From the pictures I’ve seen and from the few individual that have seen them in person the quality looks top notch. I learned a long time ago with several of my other cars and personally working with turbo development companies in the Mitsubishi and Toyota communities that price does NOT constitute better. VK will soon show if they are good or not, we as actual product consumers will judge them and let our peers know. Until then give Vince or any new developer a little slack. We need to all remember they are trying to help us out with a cheaper quality product
Vince, I personally cannot wait to get my DP’s and I assure you and everyone here on the board I will do a non biased review of them , good or bad it will be honest.

+1, Well said

[vbmw335]

Originally Posted by scheherazade

I wouldn't put it that strongly.

This is what I remember :

VK decided to stop offering DPs after making a batch.

So they offered the ones they already made at a severe discount. (clearance on a discontinued product)

So many people showed up asking for the clearance DPs, that VK managed to turn it into a group buy and arrange to make a bunch more.



What is really going on is that there are way more 'cheap' people driving around in BMW's that I think many companies had calculated - and VK's price is right.



I tend to look at features, and then weigh the price against them.

I'm provisionally in the market for DPs. I currently have my eyes on :
AR - because of the large volume
CP-E - because the cast section has a very gradual exhaust flow direction change

I simply like the features of those two.



Alternatively, for an IC I would look at :
AMS - by sheer size, and smooth end tanks which should have less turbulence.
VK - size is also very good (only 8% less gain in volume compared to AMS), quick reversible installation is *awesome* for dealer visits.



If a product has features that make it desirable, there will be buyers.
Price isn't the end-all of purchasing decisions.

Consider value added vs price paid, and what's the value 'to you personally'.

-scheherazade

I am not sure where you are getting these details of VK Downpipe evolution. I would also not classify smart people as "Cheap"...its all subjective. As a consumer myself , i dont see reason to pay a premium for a commodity mechanical object , its not rocket science...cant justify paying $350 more for AR which may or may not provide HP gains.

DP's are not high tech , China and Taiwan manufactures high tech semicon devices , fabs etc...cant see why DP's would be a big deal.

Also wanted to clarify...Price + Benefits is what a consumer evaluates products.

Good Price and product benefit is the best combination , in this case VK offers both. I have purchased both the VK OC and IC...couldnt be more happier...this is not the first time the critics come out of woods...Only time will tell and hopefully VK will push the prices down on all products and make us the consumers the winning bunch

Btw....thanks the GDP data, very interesting..that's the kind of stuff i like.

[scheherazade]

Originally Posted by vbmw335

I am not sure where you are getting these details of VK Downpipe evolution.

From the man himself.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...77&postcount=4

Originally Posted by vbmw335

Btw....thanks the GDP data, very interesting..that's the kind of stuff i like.

welcome'!


-scheherazade

[xsb00st]

Originally Posted by scheherazade

If a product has features that make it desirable, there will be buyers.
Price isn't the end-all of purchasing decisions.

Consider value added vs price paid, and what's the value 'to you personally'.

-scheherazade

Nice! True economic value.

[ridin135]

[QUOTE=ar design;5847523]That is not what I am trying to imply. Simply stating that larger diameter tube DOES make a difference, even on small turbos like a TD03 or a K04. Granted, some gains definitively came from losing the secondary cats - but not all of them. We have not done any specific testing on the 335i. You claim to have done so. So back it up.

Ok yes 3" is better then 2.5" but it doesn't matter you go from 3" to 2.5". So you can't compare test data from full 3" downpipes to 2.5" downpipes. You are limited to the flow of 2.5" and there is no way around that so your argument is mute. If anything your 3" to 2.5" might cause more problems due to the change in diameter of the pipe and bottlenecking the exhaust gases. I am not saying your product is bad I am just saying stop trying to realte information that doesn't matter in your arguement.

[RevC]

honestly, im about to just order a set of vk downpipes to test them out and prove most members wrong. i will going from ar design btw.

[Alex@AKMotorwerk]

Originally Posted by RevC

honestly, im about to just order a set of vk downpipes to test them out and prove most members wrong. i will going from ar design btw.

think long and hard before making that decision

[Jerseystyle1]

Originally Posted by ridin135

You are limited to the flow of 2.5" and there is no way around that so your argument is mute.

I think the word you were looking for is moot.

So if 3" is so much better, why not offer a 3" DP mated with full 3" dual exhaust?

[Car Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by ar design

LOL, seriously? Making a quality product in the USA vs knocking parts off in China does not mean the USA company is gouging. Simply means we have higher costs due to higher quality materials and workmanship, and American workers producing the product. Our *cost* on the downpipes is higher than your sale price. there is a reason for that.



That is not what I am trying to imply. Simply stating that larger diameter tube DOES make a difference, even on small turbos like a TD03 or a K04. Granted, some gains definitively came from losing the secondary cats - but not all of them. We have not done any specific testing on the 335i. You claim to have done so. So back it up.

Bottom line:

Claims were made that testing was done on 2.5" vs 3". Would love to see this data.
Claims were made that photos of prototypes and proper product development vs. copying were available. Would love to see those as promised.

Getting tired of repeating myself

Seriously, give it up. You've contributed nothing constructive to this thread and I think your comments have convinced many, including myself, of your company's poor business practices. I get very tired of vendors who try to start arguments in threads they don't belong in, and make it a point not to purchase from them.

Your argument about higher quality being made in the U.S. is also pathetic. Who cares if it took 8 hours to make by an American worker? You do realize we drive GERMAN cars right? Why don't you own only GM cars? They're made in the U.S., so according to your logic it's higher quality, right? And since some of them are pretty expensive, according to your "you get what you pay for" argument, it's got to be better than the competition, right?

Vince, I admire your positive comments and refusal to get bogged down in useless arguments. I'm sure many others appreciate this as well. Please continue to stay classy. Despite the arguments, I'm sure your sales numbers will reflect that many, many of us refuse to pay the ridiculous bmw tax for our parts.

[ar design]

Originally Posted by Car Enthusiast

Seriously, give it up. You've contributed nothing constructive to this thread and I think your comments have convinced many, including myself, of your company's poor business practices. I get very tired of vendors who try to start arguments in threads they don't belong in, and make it a point not to purchase from them.

Your argument about higher quality being made in the U.S. is also pathetic. Who cares if it took 8 hours to make by an American worker? You do realize we drive GERMAN cars right? Why don't you own only GM cars? They're made in the U.S., so according to your logic it's higher quality, right? And since some of them are pretty expensive, according to your "you get what you pay for" argument, it's got to be better than the competition, right?

Vince, I admire your positive comments and refusal to get bogged down in useless arguments. I'm sure many others appreciate this as well. Please continue to stay classy. Despite the arguments, I'm sure your sales numbers will reflect that many, many of us refuse to pay the ridiculous bmw tax for our parts.

I would submit that you might want to take a peek at the comparison pictures that were posted.

[CubanJJ09]

we get it, u guys are pissed cause vince under cutted all the vendors with the same product. hes not going to raise his price, your not goin to lower yours. its done

[Alex@AKMotorwerk]

Originally Posted by CubanJJ09

we get it, u guys are pissed cause vince under cutted all the vendors with a similar product, but not exactly the same in terms of diameter and quality. hes not going to raise his price, your not goin to lower yours. its done

fixed ur post up for you

[CubanJJ09]

Originally Posted by nj323ci

fixed ur post up for you

we get it, AR and SupremePower are pissed cause vince under cutted you guys with the same product. hes not going to raise his price, your not goin to lower yours. its done

thanks

[john boxter]

i feel only time will show which product will last we know ar design downpipes have proved their great quality we still have yet to see how vinces will hold up that is all

[Kevin@AKMotorwerk]

Originally Posted by CubanJJ09

we get it, AR and SupremePower are pissed cause vince under cutted you guys with the same product. hes not going to raise his price, your not goin to lower yours. its done

thanks

you obviously dont get it, its not the same product, is a jb+ and jb3 the same thing just cuz they are both considered tunes? or jb3 and procede? bottom line is that ar is a 3" dp with perfect fitment, welds, BOLTS, and great gaskets, vk are 2.5in, poor welds as best, bolts that dont fit, and gaskets that might as well be made from construction paper.

just the bolt issue alone tells me that there was zero fitment tests done on the pipes, they were made in china, shipped here and sent out.

[john boxter]

i just wanna say i hope they do hold up and everybody is happy im not trying to jab at anyone

[Kevin@AKMotorwerk]

Originally Posted by john boxter

i just wanna say i hope they do hold up and everybody is happy im not trying to jab at anyone

arent you selling a set of ar coated dps?

[Craig@SupremePower]

Ahhhhhhh ignorance is bliss... SupremePower doesn't even currently offer AR Design DP's so please educate yourself before speaking out of turn. I personally purchased DP's through Andrew thus our initial experiences with them and Alex (nj323ci) along with Kev(sexye92) have simply installed enough downpipes to know of their quality and fitment. So don't drag SupremePower into your argument....

Originally Posted by CubanJJ09

we get it, AR and SupremePower are pissed cause vince under cutted you guys with the same product. hes not going to raise his price, your not goin to lower yours. its done

thanks