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Camber, Toe and castor
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01-20-2014, 04:49 AM | #1 |
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Camber, Toe and castor
Hello all,
I am fitting my H&R Springs this week (all being well). Now i am having my alignment done afterward, as you should. However, im wondering what sort of adjustment on standard arms do you have? Can you adjust camber and toe sufficently to bring back the settings to standard after lowering? What figures are people having there align set to? whats ideal? I usually had a set up of -1deg(sometimes -2deg on the rear) camber all round, and slight toe out on the front and slight toe in on the rear, but this isnt on a bmw, this was on more track focused cars.. Thanks in advance |
01-20-2014, 02:49 PM | #2 |
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Drives: E91 330d M Sport
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Assuming you're using a place with Hunter (or similar) equipment, ask them to use the ZSP settings. There's a choice of non-sport (SE), sport (MSport), ZSP and M3. The ZSP settings seem to be optimised for lowered suspension, subjectively the handling feels better than trying to reset the geometry to MSport, and I certainly have no complaints at all.
I am going to ask my place to try M3 alignment in the spring though, see how close they can get.
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01-20-2014, 02:53 PM | #3 | |
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Ta muchly! |
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01-21-2014, 12:24 AM | #4 |
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Hang on, I'm sure I posted a pic of the printout when it was done...
Edit: Yep
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01-21-2014, 02:42 AM | #5 | |
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Thats perfect! Thank you muchly! |
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01-21-2014, 08:37 AM | #6 |
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Would similar settings be viable/applicable on any ride height?
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01-21-2014, 10:44 AM | #7 |
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Yes mate!
Obviously if your so low that the standard arms physical don't have the adjustment in them! But I would say on your car, you will be ok! |
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01-21-2014, 11:03 AM | #8 |
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Yes, I just checked against my old printout (as getting new rear tyres on this week and will prob get alignment done too), and setting are pretty similar, except my rear camber is around the -2' mark. Might get it set to closer to -1.5' as I am eating inner edges of tyres more than I would like.
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01-21-2014, 11:06 AM | #9 | |
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of course, the more toe in, the better grip on acceleration, and stability at high speed it's a trade-off |
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01-21-2014, 11:34 AM | #10 |
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I know the issue is with toe, and my setting are pretty close to above. I will see what the garage says, and take it from there. I am also changing tyre brand, so will see how they wear.
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01-21-2014, 03:37 PM | #11 | |
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I would, as you say, knock it back to closer to -1.5 and check the toe ! |
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01-21-2014, 03:45 PM | #12 | |
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"The toe setting is typically used to help compensate for the suspension bushings compliance to enhance tire wear." Toe effects how rapidly your tires wear. Camber effects where they wear. |
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01-21-2014, 04:00 PM | #13 | |
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01-21-2014, 04:05 PM | #14 | ||
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01-21-2014, 04:07 PM | #15 | |
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01-21-2014, 04:19 PM | #16 |
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01-22-2014, 01:59 AM | #17 |
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Other than a heavy right foot?
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01-22-2014, 04:51 AM | #18 |
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Thanks for all the info above guys, I understand it that basically if the toe is excessive, I would basically be dragging my tyres across the road causing excessive wear. I think the toe is not excessive, since it matches pretty close the the recommendations above. The only thing I can see as a bit out if camber at -2.
In any case, I will get it all checked as things may well have moved out since I last had it done and so my current settings may be quite different to what I think they are. I appreciate the info, and sorry for thread-jacking!
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01-22-2014, 05:03 AM | #19 | |
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01-22-2014, 05:08 AM | #20 | |
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You can't adjust front camber without knocking out the strut top locating pins, which isn't advised. So front camber is was it is, and being lowered it may increase a little which is fine. Go for M3 settings, I had this on my 335i and it transformed the car. Standard tourers have a lot of rear neg camber anyway, same as M3 IIRC (-1.5deg?) Standard tourers also have a lot of rear toe IN which makes the car stable (i.e not want to turn) you want to decrease to M3 toe in which is about 0deg5' IIRC (i.e. 5 minutes or 5/60 of a degree) The M3 has the same front and rear toe in. So to summarise: M3 front toe in M3 rear toe in M3 rear camber We're only talking about fractions of a degree between standard and M3 but it makes a big difference. Make sure your alignment place gets in spot on, not just in the tolerance band as the bands are so wide. Thats your lot Last edited by doughboy; 01-22-2014 at 05:17 AM.. |
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01-22-2014, 10:16 AM | #21 | |
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Care to expand on possible downsides of removing the pin? |
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01-22-2014, 03:54 PM | #22 | |
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if you look at a proper adjustable camber plate it has substantial fixings and locking screws to stop movement or eccentric adjusters that are rock solid. Without the pin, chances are your strut top will move when you hit a pothole and put the alignment out. From an engineering point of view this seems right, and I also had this advice from two motorsport alignment shops and Birds BMW who are the leading UK independant BMW specialists. But I agree, people do do this, so each to their own... |
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