Ran on a dyno with Procede, AFR looks way too lean

onebadmofo · 10-16-2010, 02:29 PM

Just installed Procede v4 3 days ago and went on a dyno today. I don't have base run before that. Runs were done in 4th gear

1st run was map 0
2nd run was map 2
3rd run was map 2
4th run was map 1

The operator aborted the 1st run because the dyno showed it was too lean during boost. No errors were thrown. I told him to push it to redline. Car behaved just fine before and after so I was thinking it's something has to do with dyno's AFR probe and the 335. All the other cars read AFR fine, but they had straight exhaust, mine is stock.

Car is absolutely stock except for Procede, even stock airbox. Is this something i should be worried about? I'm getting a COM to USB adapter on Monday to see what the ECU sees on o2 sensors.

OpenFlash · 10-16-2010, 02:44 PM

Looks like the operator put the afr probe in the wrong tailpipe. It needs to go into the one that doesn't have a bypass flap. Or else it will read lean for the first half of the dyno pull. Also, afr targets with the direct injected n54 as considerably leaner than a conventional injection engine (that your dyno operator may be used to seeing). Afr targets will be in the mid 14s in the low end and then ramping down to mid 11s at high rpm.

Also, switching maps (as you did on the dyno) resets all Autotuning. So you want to stick with a map and let it dial itself in over several runs on the street. Then dyno.

onebadmofo · 10-16-2010, 03:46 PM

Didn't know that, thanks for the info!

BTW we tried both sides and my valve is disconnected.

dadgar · 10-17-2010, 12:35 AM

I am also stock other than procede v4. I thought it was a bad idea to run map 2 on stock. And if shiv could answer this, would his map 2 numbers be representative of an auto tuned map 1 with stock everything.

creaminz · 10-17-2010, 03:15 AM

Completely Stock and you got 366 rwtq!? YUM!

how much boost?

cstavaru · 10-17-2010, 03:22 AM

The tuned AFR looks just like stock, except at the very end. I wonder how the EGTs were during that time.

onebadmofo · 10-17-2010, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creaminz

Completely Stock and you got 366 rwtq!? YUM!

how much boost?

Whatever the Procede set it at, I have no boost gauge.
Friend got me a USB to serial adapter and it doesn't work, gotta get another one

For now I drive at map 1 for "just in case"

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 10-17-2010, 07:00 PM

This goes to show that some dyno and there A/F reading should be taken with a grain of salt.

Need to let autotune do its thing and be aware that the o2 sniffer nearest the tailpipe will show a premature lean as well.

Need to stick that thing as close as the OEM o2 sensors to be accurate.

OpenFlash · 10-17-2010, 07:02 PM

Map1=13.5psi initial boost
Map2=14.5psi initial boost

Keep driving on map1 and let it autotune. It will only drive better...

onebadmofo · 10-18-2010, 07:40 AM

Hey Shiv, quick question.
What gender is the COM port in Procede, male of female?

enrita · 10-18-2010, 07:48 AM

you need this :

onebadmofo · 10-18-2010, 07:59 AM

I found a laptop with a com port, just need to know what gender is the connector on Procede's side.

scalbert · 10-18-2010, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onebadmofo

I found a laptop with a com port, just need to know what gender is the connector on Procede's side.

Female.

GGreek5 · 10-18-2010, 09:06 AM

Numbers seem kinda low...

Whoops, missed the 335 whp. Not bad.

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 10-18-2010, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GGreek5

Numbers seem kinda low...

Whoops, missed the 335 whp. Not bad.

He didnt let the car adapt either... So potentially could have squeezed out a bit more.

Mr. 5 · 10-18-2010, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Looks like the operator put the afr probe in the wrong tailpipe. It needs to go into the one that doesn't have a bypass flap. Or else it will read lean for the first half of the dyno pull.

How can this happen due to the flapper?
The flapper is set to open at WOT so I can see it being off in the very beginning but not half way into it.

BTW, it was already said that the op has it disconnected so it's not the flapper that is causing the lean values.

Chard · 10-25-2010, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Map1=13.5psi initial boost
Map2=14.5psi initial boost

Keep driving on map1 and let it autotune. It will only drive better...

So it's not recommended to run daily on map 2 on an otherwise completely stock car with the exhaust valve disconnected?

OpenFlash · 10-25-2010, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chard

So it's not recommended to run daily on map 2 on an otherwise completely stock car with the exhaust valve disconnected?

The exhaust valve has no effect on actual AFR. Just how it is read by a tailpipe sniffer used by a dyno. Also, cars with factory catalytic converters will read measurably leaner by tailpipe sniffers since they read o2 content after the catalytic process. None of this stuff matters to the engine since it is merely a measurement error. If you want to measure AFR accurately, you will need to mount the o2 sensor in the downpipes (where the factory o2 sensors are located) before the cats.

Chard · 10-25-2010, 08:06 PM

I'm not worried about the sniffer, just whether it's safe or not to run with that extra lb. of boost on an otherwise stock car.

The other guys might be concerned about the sniffer though. I agree, exhaust shouldn't have anything to do with the AFR since the mix is done up front.

Alan l. · 10-25-2010, 08:09 PM

Nope. I ran map 2 and it was too much for my dci/catback/V4 car. Now im running map 1 and the car is a lot happier.

10-16-2010, 02:29 PM	#1
onebadmofo Colonel 346 Rep 2,396 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Central NJ iTrader: (14)	Ran on a dyno with Procede, AFR looks way too lean Just installed Procede v4 3 days ago and went on a dyno today. I don't have base run before that. Runs were done in 4th gear 1st run was map 0 2nd run was map 2 3rd run was map 2 4th run was map 1 The operator aborted the 1st run because the dyno showed it was too lean during boost. No errors were thrown. I told him to push it to redline. Car behaved just fine before and after so I was thinking it's something has to do with dyno's AFR probe and the 335. All the other cars read AFR fine, but they had straight exhaust, mine is stock. Car is absolutely stock except for Procede, even stock airbox. Is this something i should be worried about? I'm getting a COM to USB adapter on Monday to see what the ECU sees on o2 sensors.
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10-16-2010, 02:44 PM	#2
OpenFlash 1736 Rep 17,960 Posts Drives: A Lot Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: SF Bay, CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 Ducati Panigal ... [0.00] 2016 Mazda CX5 [0.00] 2017 Aprilia Tuono ... [0.00] 2019 BMW M2 Competi ... [0.00] 2015 BMW M5 Competi ... [10.00] 2016 Ducati XDiavel S [0.00] 2016 AMG GT S [0.00] 2011 Ferrari 458 It ... [0.00] 2017 Charger Hellcat [0.00] 2015 KTM Super Duke ... [0.00] 2016 KTM RC390 [0.00]	Looks like the operator put the afr probe in the wrong tailpipe. It needs to go into the one that doesn't have a bypass flap. Or else it will read lean for the first half of the dyno pull. Also, afr targets with the direct injected n54 as considerably leaner than a conventional injection engine (that your dyno operator may be used to seeing). Afr targets will be in the mid 14s in the low end and then ramping down to mid 11s at high rpm. Also, switching maps (as you did on the dyno) resets all Autotuning. So you want to stick with a map and let it dial itself in over several runs on the street. Then dyno. Last edited by OpenFlash; 10-16-2010 at 03:07 PM..
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10-16-2010, 03:46 PM	#3
onebadmofo Colonel 346 Rep 2,396 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Central NJ iTrader: (14)	Didn't know that, thanks for the info! BTW we tried both sides and my valve is disconnected. Last edited by onebadmofo; 10-16-2010 at 06:08 PM..
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10-17-2010, 12:35 AM	#4
dadgar Private First Class 14 Rep 130 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Boston, MA iTrader: (3)	I am also stock other than procede v4. I thought it was a bad idea to run map 2 on stock. And if shiv could answer this, would his map 2 numbers be representative of an auto tuned map 1 with stock everything.
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10-17-2010, 03:15 AM	#5
creaminz Major General 545 Rep 7,705 Posts Drives: E90 LCI Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: So. Cal iTrader: (33)	Completely Stock and you got 366 rwtq!? YUM! how much boost?
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10-17-2010, 03:22 AM	#6
cstavaru Brigadier General 313 Rep 3,262 Posts Drives: 2009 335i M Sport Sedan 6MT Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bucharest, Romania iTrader: (0)	The tuned AFR looks just like stock, except at the very end. I wonder how the EGTs were during that time. __________________ Mods(click): Cobb + RB Turbos \| Aquamist HFS-4 Meth \| Drexler LSD \| Bilstein B12 Pro-Kit \| Custom K&N Apollo Intake \| Wagner Intercooler \| Macht Schnell Downpipes \| BMW Performance Power Kit \| BMW Performance Exhaust \| BMW Performance Short Shifter \| M3 Subframe Bushings \| Last edited by cstavaru; 10-17-2010 at 11:18 AM..
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10-17-2010, 07:00 PM	#8
Jeff@TopGearSolutions 3441 Rep 79,212 Posts Drives: C6 Z06, 09 335i, 10 335xi Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: www.TopGearSolutions.com iTrader: (37)	This goes to show that some dyno and there A/F reading should be taken with a grain of salt. Need to let autotune do its thing and be aware that the o2 sniffer nearest the tailpipe will show a premature lean as well. Need to stick that thing as close as the OEM o2 sensors to be accurate.
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10-17-2010, 07:02 PM	#9
OpenFlash 1736 Rep 17,960 Posts Drives: A Lot Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: SF Bay, CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 Ducati Panigal ... [0.00] 2016 Mazda CX5 [0.00] 2017 Aprilia Tuono ... [0.00] 2019 BMW M2 Competi ... [0.00] 2015 BMW M5 Competi ... [10.00] 2016 Ducati XDiavel S [0.00] 2016 AMG GT S [0.00] 2011 Ferrari 458 It ... [0.00] 2017 Charger Hellcat [0.00] 2015 KTM Super Duke ... [0.00] 2016 KTM RC390 [0.00]	Map1=13.5psi initial boost Map2=14.5psi initial boost Keep driving on map1 and let it autotune. It will only drive better...
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10-18-2010, 07:40 AM	#10
onebadmofo Colonel 346 Rep 2,396 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Central NJ iTrader: (14)	Hey Shiv, quick question. What gender is the COM port in Procede, male of female?
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10-18-2010, 07:48 AM	#11
enrita Major General 159 Rep 7,378 Posts Drives: 335i - Big turbos Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Italian in Sweden iTrader: (0)	you need this : __________________ 07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD E85 BMS flash - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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10-18-2010, 07:59 AM	#12
onebadmofo Colonel 346 Rep 2,396 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Central NJ iTrader: (14)	I found a laptop with a com port, just need to know what gender is the connector on Procede's side.
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10-18-2010, 09:06 AM	#14
GGreek5 Olimpiakos 91 Rep 1,426 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Mass iTrader: (10)	Numbers seem kinda low... Whoops, missed the 335 whp. Not bad.
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10-25-2010, 08:06 PM	#19
Chard Second Lieutenant 15 Rep 242 Posts Drives: E90 330i Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Honolulu iTrader: (3)	I'm not worried about the sniffer, just whether it's safe or not to run with that extra lb. of boost on an otherwise stock car. The other guys might be concerned about the sniffer though. I agree, exhaust shouldn't have anything to do with the AFR since the mix is done up front.
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10-25-2010, 08:09 PM	#20
Alan l. Major General 5429 Rep 8,802 Posts Drives: 2020 F95 X5M Competition Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: United States iTrader: (9)	Nope. I ran map 2 and it was too much for my dci/catback/V4 car. Now im running map 1 and the car is a lot happier. __________________
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