|
|
|
|
|
|
BMW Garage | BMW Meets | Register | Today's Posts | Search |
|
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
>
New HPF N54 Intake Manifold Pics for the 135i/335i/535i
|
|
01-05-2012, 06:07 PM | #45 |
First Lieutenant
5
Rep 300
Posts |
Tzu,
Thanks for the PM, by the way. I know that Siemens/Continental has tested the "engine" to 200 bar, but I don't know if that means they have tested the whole OE system to those pressures, (including the pumps) or just the injectors. The conversation probably took place in some combination of German and English, so I don't know what if anything was lost in translation. Also, what were the test conditions? Was the pump system test sustained at 200 bar, or did it peak there? I'm interested in volume rather than pressure. ie: What is the maximum volume rate of the HPFP? Can it *sustain* injectors flowing at 200bar? This is sometimes expressed as "Q Dot". I'll post the same question to the thread you referenced as soon as I am registered there. Thanks, -Michael
__________________
DD: 2007 BMW 335i Sedan
Weekends: 2004 Porsche 911 C4S |
Appreciate
0
|
01-06-2012, 07:10 AM | #46 |
Lieutenant Colonel
29
Rep 1,551
Posts |
I'm just a hobbyist, not a design engineer for BMW lol.
I know HPF did some good testing on the injectors, and released a small video on youtube about it. The theory of the fuel system would require the rail to be held at reliable pressure. eg if the sensor is reading 200bar, it should sustain 200bar while injectors are pulsed and volume is exiting the system. This is much easier than the DME accounting for minute pressure losses between injections. Of course this will occour, but if the DME schedules 200 bar, it probably assumes constant pressure. I know shiv did some testing of the LPFP, not sure about HPFP, thats a little more difficult. You can ask him for his results, I dont see him giving it out willy nilly though. I try to keep Q_dot for heat transfer lol. But any number I give you would be all theoretical. Taking AFR, you can use the specific mass of air to convert to m_tot_gas with respect to vol_cyl injected per combustion. Multipled by 6 cylinders X RPM / 60(sec/min) / 4(strokes/cycle) for m_dot_tot_gas. Divide that by specific mass of gas, and you should have volume flow rate. I'm a little rusty on this stuff. It's probably just a better idea to bench a HPFP lol. That's a much more realistic route. |
Appreciate
0
|
01-06-2012, 07:27 AM | #47 |
Mad Linux Guru On The Loose
1121
Rep 5,396
Posts
Drives: 2008 335i Sedan, 2023 M3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
|
Sorry to be so nit picky, but I watched that video as well and I was not impressed a single bit. Their injectors did not have a proper spray pattern. They looked more like the spray pattern you get out of a garden hose.
__________________
6MT | COBB | AR | AE | Forge DV | HPF | P3 Gauge | Hybrid Intake | O.S.Giken TCD | All M3 bits | TCKLine | StopTech | UUC | ER | SPEC
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-06-2012, 08:58 AM | #49 |
Banned
103
Rep 3,177
Posts |
if it's the same video i'm thinking of, they used the bosch/ID injectors. these are widely accepted as the best injectors on the market. idle, flow characteristics, etc are superior to RC engineering and other brands. what background do you have in fuel injector design/performance where ID injectors do not impress you a single bit?
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-06-2012, 09:11 AM | #50 |
Lieutenant Colonel
29
Rep 1,551
Posts |
V: In this particular instance, I considered "good" to be the word of choice as pretty much the only vocal people to even TEST the OEM injectors, and compare against other possible replacements. That research is only moving the platform forward, and IMO can always be considered "good." Data is always good! Espically when public.
CN: I actually just completed a study on spraybar effectiveness on another platform. The bottleneck in that particular choice is ensuring proper flow AND spray pattern with respect to OEM spec. Many times, brand new identical PNs had a large variance. This is true with any high pressure injection system. An injector can flow just fine, but if its streaking, you're going to get pooling, misfires and shitty fuel economy. |
Appreciate
0
|
01-06-2012, 09:36 AM | #51 | |
Mad Linux Guru On The Loose
1121
Rep 5,396
Posts
Drives: 2008 335i Sedan, 2023 M3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
|
Quote:
Don't get me wrong here. I own some of HPFs products and I am not here to say anything against them. All I am saying is that the spay pattern of their super duper high flow injectors looked like the one from a garden hose to me (in that particular video).
__________________
6MT | COBB | AR | AE | Forge DV | HPF | P3 Gauge | Hybrid Intake | O.S.Giken TCD | All M3 bits | TCKLine | StopTech | UUC | ER | SPEC
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-06-2012, 10:07 AM | #52 | |
Banned
103
Rep 3,177
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-06-2012, 10:24 AM | #53 | |
Mad Linux Guru On The Loose
1121
Rep 5,396
Posts
Drives: 2008 335i Sedan, 2023 M3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
|
Quote:
Cheers!
__________________
6MT | COBB | AR | AE | Forge DV | HPF | P3 Gauge | Hybrid Intake | O.S.Giken TCD | All M3 bits | TCKLine | StopTech | UUC | ER | SPEC
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-06-2012, 11:23 AM | #56 |
First Lieutenant
5
Rep 300
Posts |
Hi Tzu,
I recall the video you're referring to pretty well actually. Jonathan and I watched it a few times, trying to figure out how it would be relevant to the N54. In fact, it isn't. Those aren't direct injectors, so unless you're resigned to the notion that port injection, (ie: a new manifold, additional injectors, fuel rail, pump, and outboard fuel controller), is the best way to support additional charge air from a big turbo or turbos, it doesn't mean all that much. As I recall the gentleman in the video also assumes that the relationship between fuel volume and fuel pressure is much simpler than it is. More comments elsewhere as this is HPF's thread and I have run away with it again... Apologies. -Michael
__________________
DD: 2007 BMW 335i Sedan
Weekends: 2004 Porsche 911 C4S |
Appreciate
0
|
01-06-2012, 03:44 PM | #57 | |
Brigadier General
1053
Rep 3,205
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
e92 ///M3 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-06-2012, 03:49 PM | #58 |
Captain
52
Rep 794
Posts |
Cannot wait i haven't had a N54 in months and once HPF finishes this project it will make me buy another one. I'm keeping a very close eye on this one.
__________________
Gone But Not forgotten:
-07 Shelby GT500 W/ Full Bolt on E85 -08 335i 6MT W/ Full Bolt On E85/Meth -08 M3 DCT W/ Full Exhaust / Tune -13 B8 Audi S4 APR Stage 2+ |
Appreciate
0
|
01-06-2012, 04:38 PM | #59 | |
295
Rep 4,408
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
-Critter
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-06-2012, 05:09 PM | #60 |
First Lieutenant
5
Rep 300
Posts |
Hi Andrew,
Thanks. So, are you saying that you had plenty of fuel left at the top of your tune? What, in particular was troublesome about the tune? Thanks, -Michael
__________________
DD: 2007 BMW 335i Sedan
Weekends: 2004 Porsche 911 C4S |
Appreciate
0
|
01-07-2012, 09:45 AM | #61 |
Major General
2042
Rep 6,107
Posts |
lolz
__________________
When you say impact instead of affect/effect, you are communicating that you don't understand the difference between the two words, and are too lazy to learn.
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-07-2012, 10:17 AM | #63 |
Captain
52
Rep 794
Posts |
I Would also have to agree with you're statement. If not more. I'm really hoping the HPF Stage I Turbo for the n54 is in the the 5-8k range
__________________
Gone But Not forgotten:
-07 Shelby GT500 W/ Full Bolt on E85 -08 335i 6MT W/ Full Bolt On E85/Meth -08 M3 DCT W/ Full Exhaust / Tune -13 B8 Audi S4 APR Stage 2+ |
Appreciate
0
|
01-07-2012, 03:47 PM | #64 |
Major General
2042
Rep 6,107
Posts |
I was thinking $199.95. I think you added one too many 9's on your price.
__________________
When you say impact instead of affect/effect, you are communicating that you don't understand the difference between the two words, and are too lazy to learn.
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-21-2012, 09:55 AM | #66 |
New Member
5
Rep 21
Posts |
I am not sure how this is going to work with DI INJECTION and PORT Injection WITH high compression ratio piston setup but all I KNOW is I just happen to have $2000 pocket change for this product clean my intake valve.
|
Appreciate
0
|
Bookmarks |
|
|