[dxb335d]

It was on the News today.

[NFS]

Originally Posted by E92Fan

No, taking E doesn't merit 7 years in jail. However, dealing it in the knowledge it's been cut with all manner of crap, most of it harmful, I think merits a harsh sentence. The people who make it and the people who deal it know full well it's not pure, and the reason it's cut down is to make more money, regardless of the consequences. If the E was pure or purer MDMA as it was in the 90s then I would have less problem with the declassification...

I agree that the sentence for posession is clearly unjust. The difficulty with harsh sentences for dealing is trying to define a dealer.

If a person asks a friend to buy some E for them, is the person that acts as the intermediary a dealer? In law they would be and I think the majority of people would agree that a life sentence is inapropriate in this case.

The law should target those people who manufacturer and import illegal drugs and those who cut them with dangerous compounds.

These people can only exist and profit because drugs are illegal. Dealers do not want drugs to be decriminalised.

Very few people die from taking E. Just 58 in the last year compared to 100+ who died as the result of horse riding accidents. To quote the Doctor at the centre of this current spat:

Originally Posted by The BBC

He said horse-riding accounted for more than 100 deaths a year, and went on: "This attitude raises the critical question of why society tolerates - indeed encourages - certain forms of potentially harmful behaviour but not others such as drug use."

The same article (link in Vivs post) says that 9% of 18-25 year olds have tried E at least once.

So the law as it stands creates a system where 1 in 10 (almost) young people have committed a crime carrying a sentence of up to 14 years in prison.

A sizeable number of young people will take this drug and it's illegality does nothing to prevent them.

The only things achieved by making drugs illegal are:

1. Profits for the dealers
2. A game of russian roulette where millions of young people take recreational drugs that are not tested or certified, where the ingredients are completely unknown and potentially deadly.

I don't think it's appropriate for E to be a class A drug, but I do agree that downgrading it would achieve very little.

Perhaps the only thing it might achieve is a move toward overall decriminalisation and regulation. If that happened lives would be saved.

[acerboo]

i think all this government are on it, if not perhaps they should be and perhaps they wouldnt make such a HASH of everything

[Exotica]

It was the government advisors that suggested the change. The government immediately rejected the recommendation so still Class A.

[dxb335d]

Such a druggie NFS aint ya.

[Porscha!]

I certainly am not a druggie lol but agree with NFS 100%

Fact is if people want to take it they'll take it, I don't personally think drugs are that much more dangerous than alcohol (growing up with an alcoholic I've seen a lot more than merry times and hangovers, it really is just as bad IMO), one day they'll be legal and taxed to the hilt like other substances, fact is they'll actually be much more safer than now and drugs crime would go down.

[dxb335d]

Drugs are socially unnaceptable.

How would you feel if your daughter was taking Ecstasy... Cocaine or cannabis.

Alcohol is a drug, but thousands of people can moderate themselve quite easily.

One pill can kill you.

[Exotica]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Drugs are socially unnaceptable.

How would you feel if your daughter was taking Ecstasy... Cocaine or cannabis.

Alcohol is a drug, but thousands of people can moderate themselve quite easily.

One pill can kill you.

+1

[willhollin]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Drugs are socially unnaceptable.

How would you feel if your daughter was taking Ecstasy... Cocaine or cannabis.

Alcohol is a drug, but thousands of people can moderate themselve quite easily.

One pill can kill you.

+ 1

[Porscha!]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Drugs are socially unnaceptable.

How would you feel if your daughter was taking Ecstasy... Cocaine or cannabis.

Alcohol is a drug, but thousands of people can moderate themselve quite easily.

One pill can kill you.

I may have an odd or slightly skewed view on this.

With regards to the how would you feel question? Well I don't have children but know I'd be very disappointed and upset, having said that I would be equally disappointed if she was participating in the binge drinking culture too. Truely I place all, shall we say, mind altering substances together, while I don't claim to be any angel at the same time if others do it that is up to them.

Binge drinking IMO is just as socially unacceptable, it is a very big shame out society judges it as all fine and dandy please notice the binge, I generally don't have a problem with drinking as such just people doing it to stupid excess. I don't like to see sick and fighting and drunk idiots damaging my property and abuse and need I really go on. There are so many seen and less seen issues surrounding both binge drinking and alcoholism, the above is seen the less seen revolves around the person getting ill, trying and failing to quit, domestic violence and poverty.

Recreational drug use is very much like binge drinking in my opinion and yes I do know people who do take drugs on a recreational basis, they are risking their lives everytime they do it.

While I don't like any of it to excess, I do think it would be much safer if these drugs were pure, people WILL do drugs no matter what and if alcoholic drinks were illegal it would claim lives just as easily because god knows what it would be mixed with.

[Oli]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Drugs are socially unnaceptable.

How would you feel if your daughter was taking Ecstasy... Cocaine or cannabis.

Alcohol is a drug, but thousands of people can moderate themselve quite easily.

One pill can kill you.

I agree with the kids thing, but I will be very open with my children with regards to alcohol and drugs. Kids being kids will try something regardless of what you are going to say, so better to know the truth, than what is read in newspapers!

Drugs - socially unacceptable - I doubt this, drugs are taken in most pubs and clubs accross the country every day.

Sorry Carl, but you are very blinkered on this subject, and having never tried any drug, for which I have the highest respect for, you cannot give a measured equal answer.

One pill can kill - only in extreme circumstances, usually with an excess of liquid - I think the Leah Betts unfortunate incident highlights this, but how many other can people name, that were such big news?

Alcohol kills many more people than drugs every year, and there are more alcohol related violence and hospital admissions than drugs.

I am not saying drugs are good, but what I am saying is, that taken in moderation,like lots of people do every weekend, they are a lot safer than alcohol, and far safer than many people read in newspapers, which always blow up the individual cases of drug abuse - imagine if they did this with alcohol or smoking, we would read about nothing else.

[-=TSL=-]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Drugs are socially unnaceptable.

How would you feel if your daughter was taking Ecstasy... Cocaine or cannabis.

Alcohol is a drug, but thousands of people can moderate themselve quite easily.

One pill can kill you.

Being only a bit older than me, Carlos I'm sure you have seen much more violence, blood and tears from the use of alcohol.

Just watching some fools outside the club/bar swinging for their best mates or random passers-by is enough to acknowledge the fact that drugs are certainly not this country's worst addiction.

When you drink to get sh*tfaced you are endangering everyone around you and yourself.
Having a splif, or taking E at a club will almost nearly only damage the user. Unless of course they decide to go on a joyride.

This is why you can look at these drug addicts, and deep inside feel how much better you are than them. Whereas the totally 'smashed off his face' alcoholic could easily be anyone of us.

[dxb335d]

kids dont try things regardless. I didnt. I had a cigarette at 13 and didnt again have one till i was 18. Turned down a can of lager at 13 at the same time. Didnt want to expose myself to danger of alcohol. Parents said its not good for you. I listen and trust my parents 110%. They have brought me up well and I believe in them alot.

I have been offered cannabis over the years growing up. I always turned it down, even in a group of 15 at college. I was one of only 2 who turned it down. I dont want myself affected by some strange shit in my system. Now im far more vocal about my dislike of drugs and the drug scene.

Causes alot of shit. Thing back to the Rettendon range rover murders.

Alcohol i enjoy, I enjoy drinking and enjoy the social aspect of it.... Sitting there with friends and talkign cars etc.

You wouldnt sit there with a mate taking a pill every hour or so talking cars. Thats just weird. The drug mentality is tooo ''feel'' f**ked. Thats what it does and why people do it.

But like morons who get plastered on 'cool and spew up. But drugs are less sociable and far more risky.

[Wake27]

I wouldn't be as worried about x if it was just that. But nowadays, there's so much other dangerous shit mixed in its bad news.

[medrep]

x3 double vodka's can kill you.

x1 packet of cigarettes can kill you

sucking a helium balloon can kill you.

Point is anything can kill you, it is up to the individual to research, be sensible, and know their limits.

Would the world rather people drink 15 pints and end up in all sorts of problems, or take x1 low dose qaulity pill and laugh and dance the night away. Im not advocating one or the other, but I get angry when people slate something they know nothing about. How many people on this forum drink? Then by default you take drugs.

I agree ecstacy is non controlled, and can contain anything. But in its purest form it is one of the most safest drugs out there. If any one would question that, then download the government report undertaken a few years back to evaluate drug classification. Ecstasy was towards the bottom, along with GHB. Alcohol, nicotine (inc the usual heroin, cocaine etc) was at the top of the harm table.

I have spent some time looking into these drugs, for one reason or another, and imo have come to my own educated conclusions. Ecstasy does have its more serious side, such as reduction of serotonin = comedown which in susceptible individuals can cause depression or worse. But again, so is alcohol a depressant.

But to be fair, as someone said, would I be happy if my daughter took it in years to come, probably not. I see all sides of the coin, but please do not judge a chemical/drug on the basis of the media, that is just plain ignorance.

[medrep]

.........and Leah Betts did not die directly from taking ecstacy, she died from drinking too much fluid, which massively altered her sodium levels, and ultimately damaged her brain.

[Steve A]

Originally Posted by NFS

Alcohol and tobacco are both drugs. If you go to pubs and clubs you will be around them.

There is no logical, medical or social reason why Cannabis is illegal and alcohol is not.

The illegality of cannabis was primarily driven by (some) paper producers. Hemp (cannabis) is a very useful plant, which in the past was used to produce rope, paper, clothing etc. It was smoked widely for it's 'medicinal properties' and has had a profound place in the history of art.

In the 18th Century cannabis and opiates (laudenam) were commonplace and even then were used to tap into subconcious creativity (eg Samuel Taylor Coleridge).

Cannabis in particular is relatively very clean drug. It is not physically addictive (unlike tobacco) and the effects are mild.

In my opinion it is far less damaging socially and medically than alcohol and it is an absolute nonsense that one should be legal and the other not.

Drugs policy in the UK for the last 20 years has been a complete joke. The authorities try to tell kids that if they take drugs they will end up as junkies, which is total nonsense.

Kids can see for themselves that cannabis is no more of a sociological problem than alcohol. They can also see that ecstacy is not in itself damaging.

Our drugs policy has created a sub culture, kids know that they have been lied to and they don't trust the 'official' message when it comes to more dangerous drugs like heroin and cocaine.

Ecstacy is dangerous BECAUSE it is illegal. Pure MDMA is not going to hurt anyone (so long as people use it in moderation). But if you buy it in a club, it could contain anything. It's not pure, it's not tested and it's not safe.

By making drugs like this illegal we also expose our children to drug dealers. Should people who want to smoke cannabis be brought into contact with the type of people who sell heroin? I'd argue not.

Eventually Cannabis will be legal, as will (I suspect) amphetamines and MDMA.

In honesty I think heroin and cocaine should also be legal, because at least then they will be cheaper and purer.

Junkies only steal to find their habit because heroin is expensive. It's only expensive because it's illegal and drug dealers make massive tax free profits as a result.

Simon i totally agree, good post.

Originally Posted by Oli

The reason they are de-classing it is because it is in the same category as cocaine and heroin, and beleive me they are a mile away from those drugs. What they should be doing is moving C and H up into a new group.

I grew up in the 90's E erra, and it never did any harm to anyone I knew, but this will send out the wrong signal. they used to cost £20 each and be loaded with MDMA, and be strong as anything, aparently. Nowadays they are a quid each, and full of shit, so I've heard, so this could be another reason.

I do agree with what you are saying Carl, but you do also sound like my parents who have no experience of drugs 1st hand (not that this is a good thing), but assume everything is hardcore, which cannabis and ecstasy isn't, there is just an odd casethat highlight these drugs. Check out the deaths etc from alcohol , very understated!

Just my tuppence as usual

I like Oli was part of the whole E movement and just ask gizze about it.

I grew up in the hacienda and ive had more e's than you can imagine.

I loved every one of them. In total each year there are 30 e related deaths thats right 30! How many Alcohol related deaths are ther in the UK 1000's how many die from smoking? 10,000s. Compared to the LEGAL drugs these are very safe.

if i didnt have to get out of bed and look after my family and business id probb still do a few

So carl chill man, do want an e

[willhollin]

Right you 'orrible lot, you're all nicked.

[medrep]

Totally agree with you Steve A!!

The worst thats happened to me after a biscuit fest was the ability not too fall asleep, and dancing like a t**t.

Alcohol on the other hand, I dont have enough time or the courage to say. Had some dreadful nights out on the stuff............

[dxb335d]

Druggies.

I aint impressed in all honesty.

[Steve A]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Druggies.

I aint impressed in all honesty.

Carl nobs heads who drive like you all the time on the public roads kill far more people, so get the f**k off your high horse....short arse

[willhollin]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Druggies.

I aint impressed in all honesty.

Mate it's just what society is used to. I am sure if the government (whoever that may be) could have some control on drugs they would be taxing them like **** and booze. Then they might not be so anti-drugs if there was something in it for them.

I've tried a bit in the past but it didn't appeal to me. I like to be out socially having a few beers. Although I don't need to have a beer, I have had plenty of laughs with some of you ugly buggers at the various E90 post meets.