JB3 VS C6 Vette?

Crisp · 06-19-2009, 01:53 PM

The only way you could possibly beat him is if you get lucky in the 1/4 mile.

That means, you have to race him from a dead stop.
This is the only way you would win because he has a lot of power/torque, so it is very easy for him to mess up the launch.

Other than that, The LS2/LS3 and higher engines (LS7) are highway monsters.

Common, they have a damn V8 6.0L+ engine in there.
Those things are built to come to life at higher speeds!

I'm coming from a LS2 GTO and I ran many 335i's (i guess they were stock).
From a dead stop, they stood side by side with me up to about 80mph, where I would pull, and keep pulling untill it was pointless to race anymore.

Now I have a JB3 Beta on Map6 and 93 octane, and I still think if I was to do a roll from 100mph with my LS2 GTO, it would take me....never mind the damn LS3 Vet.

If both drivers are equally skilled, or even if you are a tad better driver than he is, he will still win because he as plenty of room for error if the race is going up to about 130mph.

Don't put anything up for it...keep it a friendly race and get it on video.

From a 40-130mph race, I predict the vet puts 3 cars if you are on 93 octane and map 6 on JB3 Beta.

Good luck.

NewSong · 06-19-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crisp

From a 40-130mph race, I predict the vet puts 3 cars if you are on 93 octane and map 6 on JB3 Beta.

Good luck.

That's pretty much how I see it. 3-4 car lengths before it becomes a pointless race with the 335i seeing the 4 red eyes.

335e92tx · 06-19-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mylydiamy

I still don't undesrtand how any one with some kind of car knowledge can compare moded car to stuck car, and/or car with broken in engine to brand new car? Does n't make any sense at all...

The reason this is done (even by manufacturers or aftermarket tuners), is to verify the performance improvement using an established baseline. There is no doubt GM compare the first Z06 performance improvement with the Z51.

335e92tx · 06-19-2009, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crisp

I'm coming from a LS2 GTO and I ran many 335i's (i guess they were stock).
From a dead stop, they stood side by side with me up to about 80mph, where I would pull, and keep pulling untill it was pointless to race anymore.

Now I have a JB3 Beta on Map6 and 93 octane, and I still think if I was to do a roll from 100mph with my LS2 GTO, it would take me....never mind the damn LS3 Vet.

One of your 6liter buddies on ls1gto.com recently had an experience with a 335.
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315940
I guess it was not from a 100, but the GTO was not stock either.

Crisp · 06-19-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335e92tx

One of your 6liter buddies on ls1gto.com recently had an experience with a 335.
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315940
I guess it was not from a 100, but the GTO was not stock either.

I don't remember my login info for that site, and it asks me to log in to view it.

Can you copy/paste it here please?

-----

For comparision:

My E93 335i with JB3 1.22 map 7, 100 octane, BMS filter ran a consistant 13.1 (3 times) with lots of wheel spin in 1st.

My 2006 GTO 6spd, bone stock with 18inch rims and 235's in the rear, ran a 13.3, 13.7, 13.5.

The car was very hard to launch, like I said, so the 335 has the advantage. My 335i is auto though and the OP's is manual, but the 335 manual should launch better than the GTO/Vet since the power is hard to put down with those cars.

On a roll, it was a different story though when I raced 335's with me GTO.
The higher the speed, the more lengths I would put on them.

Keep in mind that I am not bias at all since I now own the 335i and sold the GTO, and GTO's try and race me all the time when they see me since they hate imports.

Septro · 06-19-2009, 03:34 PM

I lined up against a '04 C5 Z06 and roasted him as he pulled a 13.4 and I a 12.5, it was his first time at the track and he was babying the car since he just bought it.

Just goes to show you - race the guy anyway, you're not supposed to beat the car, but you may easily beat the driver..

335e92tx · 06-19-2009, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crisp

I don't remember my login info for that site, and it asks me to log in to view it.

Can you copy/paste it here please?

GTO4now
Registered User

BMW 335 coupe was pretty fast...
Had a brief run with a new 335 coupe. Pulled up to a light with him, we left normal with me goosing it just a little but I let off when I saw him not going for it. Of course, he then decides to jump on it and I'm just past 30 mph and the car doesn't kick down to first. He pulls past me by about a full car length before my revs come up in second to stop his pull. I see him shifting and it seems pretty even now, but I don't think I was going to reel him in...he was holding that lead. We didn't get to go much further before we had to shut down, but I was impressed by that thing. It seemed as fast as the last turbo Carrera I ran! Twin turbos can really do wonders for a car.

quote from the second poster

Good run buddy. Ya gotta figure he has got twin turbos and you are straight up LTs/cam, etc. A good showing for traditional American muscle on your part. Those 335s are really nice looking cars I must admit.
__________________

The thread rapidly deteriorates when a 'BMW tech' from NJ says he has personally denied warranty repairs on many of n54s due to overstress (effectively later identified in bent valves, broken vanos drives and cylinder washdown) to excessive boost from 'tunes'. Various people from srt8/bmw and terrance27 have called him to validate his statement.

Crisp · 06-19-2009, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335e92tx

GTO4now
Registered User

BMW 335 coupe was pretty fast...
Had a brief run with a new 335 coupe. Pulled up to a light with him, we left normal with me goosing it just a little but I let off when I saw him not going for it. Of course, he then decides to jump on it and I'm just past 30 mph and the car doesn't kick down to first. He pulls past me by about a full car length before my revs come up in second to stop his pull. I see him shifting and it seems pretty even now, but I don't think I was going to reel him in...he was holding that lead. We didn't get to go much further before we had to shut down, but I was impressed by that thing. It seemed as fast as the last turbo Carrera I ran! Twin turbos can really do wonders for a car.

quote from the second poster

Good run buddy. Ya gotta figure he has got twin turbos and you are straight up LTs/cam, etc. A good showing for traditional American muscle on your part. Those 335s are really nice looking cars I must admit.
__________________

The thread rapidly deteriorates when a 'BMW tech' from NJ says he has personally denied warranty repairs on many of n54s due to overstress (effectively later identified in bent valves, broken vanos drives and cylinder washdown) to excessive boost from 'tunes'. Various people from srt8/bmw and terrance27 have called him to validate his statement.

Do you know if it was an LS1 or LS2 GTO?

If they don't take off at the same time, the GTO is not going to put any lengths on the 335 that easy... it did not sound like they got past 80-90mph though.

Besides, this was an auto...those things don't move on a roll, they are only good to get out of the hole quicker than the manuals since you don't have to play with the clutch to get the power down.

When I get home, I'll post up a few videos of the GTO doing highway pulls, and if you want, try and do the same highway pull at the same speeds I did it and see how your times compare.

Crisp · 06-19-2009, 03:56 PM

Anyway, the 335i, tuned, will still not take a C6 LS3 unless the LS3 messes up which is not really comparing cars, that's just comparing drivers.

I think we can all agree that will equal drivers, the C6 would win this one, especially at highway speeds.

335e92tx · 06-19-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crisp

Do you know if it was an LS1 or LS2 GTO?

The avatar showed a pic of a gto with hood scoops. I imagine its 6liter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crisp

Anyway, the 335i, tuned, will still not take a C6 LS3 unless the LS3 messes up which is not really comparing cars, that's just comparing drivers.

I think we can all agree that will equal drivers, the C6 would win this one, especially at highway speeds.

I said from the first post the hp/weight ratios of those things are in a class well out of the range of a 6cyl.

I got schooled with the JB2 in my car by a 6speed LS3. He hit the revlimiter on one gear and missed 1 and he had me by 2 cars by 100. Needed driver mod for sure.

mylydiamy · 06-19-2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Septro

....
Just goes to show you - race the guy anyway, you're not supposed to beat the car, but you may easily beat the driver..

+1^ Couldn't be said any better..

Sniz · 06-19-2009, 11:48 PM

yup, unless the other driver messes up its not going to look good for a 335 w/ out all the bolt ons, race gas, and running one of Hotrods's crazy ass race maps.

Driver72 · 06-20-2009, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crisp

The only way you could possibly beat him is if you get lucky in the 1/4 mile.

That means, you have to race him from a dead stop.
This is the only way you would win because he has a lot of power/torque, so it is very easy for him to mess up the launch.

Other than that, The LS2/LS3 and higher engines (LS7) are highway monsters.

Common, they have a damn V8 6.0L+ engine in there.
Those things are built to come to life at higher speeds!

I'm coming from a LS2 GTO and I ran many 335i's (i guess they were stock).
From a dead stop, they stood side by side with me up to about 80mph, where I would pull, and keep pulling untill it was pointless to race anymore.

Now I have a JB3 Beta on Map6 and 93 octane, and I still think if I was to do a roll from 100mph with my LS2 GTO, it would take me....never mind the damn LS3 Vet.

If both drivers are equally skilled, or even if you are a tad better driver than he is, he will still win because he as plenty of room for error if the race is going up to about 130mph.

Don't put anything up for it...keep it a friendly race and get it on video.

From a 40-130mph race, I predict the vet puts 3 cars if you are on 93 octane and map 6 on JB3 Beta.

Good luck.

If you are basing that on your e93, keep in mind the e92 is 440 lbs lighter, so that's 4 car lengths there.

sbdavis1 · 06-20-2009, 02:14 PM

So we haven't gone out for our "friendly pull" yet as we didn't have time last night. He did however let me drive it...the LS2 definately makes a lot of power up top. The Butt dyno between the two cars however doesn't seem to give the vette that much of an advantage....

from what i felt...i might have a chance until100+ speeds. that thing is a beast up top. we will go out tonight and i'll let you guys know how it goes..

David 12 · 06-20-2009, 07:19 PM

gl sbdavid - I will tell you from my previous post that the next time the guy I know with the nearly stock 1992 vette spouts off, I will ask him to line up. I might even tell him I am sure I have no chance. The look on his face will be priceless!!!

Recap: Me - 2007 335i coupe, JB3, map 3

TMR · 06-20-2009, 11:11 PM

Just thought id add to this... This morning i ran a new ZO6 with exhaust. We went from 60-120. I would edge him half car so his bumper would be at my door and by 120 my front bumper was at his back bumper. He was pulling HARD!!! if we would have stayed in it he would have easily put 4+ cars by 140.

sbdavis1 · 06-21-2009, 12:47 PM

So as we all agreed....the LSX's are BEASTS on the Highway.

Again to restate the mods on the cars

2007 e92 JB3 Map5 91 oct, DCI, Britalman Exhaust, Forge DV
2007 LS2 Vette - STOCK -

Did multiple runs but here's the consolidated conclusion:
60 roll - 3rd gear - Dead even until about 115ish...then BYE BYE 335
40mph roll - 2nd gear - 335 jumps ahead a half car or so until 90. then he caught up
5mph roll - 1st gear - 335 jumps ahead at least a car. vette catches between 90-100mph.

He hasn't had enough time with the car to learn to launch...so that will come soon. My FMIC gets installed this week and we will run again to see the comparison. After last night I really need to order some catless DP's ASAP.

Don't race the LSX on the highway....out of the hole we have a solid chance though.

hotrod182 · 06-21-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbdavis1

So as we all agreed....the LSX's are BEASTS on the Highway.

Again to restate the mods on the cars

2007 e92 JB3 Map5 91 oct, DCI, Britalman Exhaust, Forge DV
2007 LS2 Vette - STOCK -

Did multiple runs but here's the consolidated conclusion:
60 roll - 3rd gear - Dead even until about 115ish...then BYE BYE 335
40mph roll - 2nd gear - 335 jumps ahead a half car or so until 90. then he caught up
5mph roll - 1st gear - 335 jumps ahead at least a car. vette catches between 90-100mph.

He hasn't had enough time with the car to learn to launch...so that will come soon. My FMIC gets installed this week and we will run again to see the comparison. After last night I really need to order some catless DP's ASAP.

Don't race the LSX on the highway....out of the hole we have a solid chance though.

Can you get better octane than 91? Also, FWIW, I was doing testing yesterday, by going to map#5 from map#7 I lost a full mph trap speed. (on 91 octane)

sbdavis1 · 06-21-2009, 01:59 PM

91 is the best pump i can get here in AZ. I would bump up to map 7 but i wanted to get a baseline comparison. 5 is where i run on a daily basis. with the heat down here and no FMIC yet....i don't want to push it to map 7.

when i get my fmic this week, i can go to map 7 for a few pulls...but even with the FMIC on 91 should i stay at map5 for DD?

hotrod182 · 06-21-2009, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbdavis1

91 is the best pump i can get here in AZ. I would bump up to map 7 but i wanted to get a baseline comparison. 5 is where i run on a daily basis. with the heat down here and no FMIC yet....i don't want to push it to map 7.

when i get my fmic this week, i can go to map 7 for a few pulls...but even with the FMIC on 91 should i stay at map5 for DD?

Well, I daily drive on map#7. But temps here are usually 60-72F. It is is 100F outside, I would definitely go to a lower map.

Crisp · 06-22-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMR

Just thought id add to this... This morning i ran a new ZO6 with exhaust. We went from 60-120. I would edge him half car so his bumper would be at my door and by 120 my front bumper was at his back bumper. He was pulling HARD!!! if we would have stayed in it he would have easily put 4+ cars by 140.

LOL

Not bad.

I don't think he was pushing it to redline though.

That's pretty much the fastest car on the street that you went up against...

Crisp · 06-22-2009, 01:12 PM

[QUOTE=sbdavis1;5369135]So as we all agreed....the LSX's are BEASTS on the Highway.

Again to restate the mods on the cars

2007 e92 JB3 Map5 91 oct, DCI, Britalman Exhaust, Forge DV
2007 LS2 Vette - STOCK -

Did multiple runs but here's the consolidated conclusion:
60 roll - 3rd gear - Dead even until about 115ish...then BYE BYE 335
40mph roll - 2nd gear - 335 jumps ahead a half car or so until 90. then he caught up
5mph roll - 1st gear - 335 jumps ahead at least a car. vette catches between 90-100mph.

He hasn't had enough time with the car to learn to launch...so that will come soon. My FMIC gets installed this week and we will run again to see the comparison. After last night I really need to order some catless DP's ASAP.

Don't race the LSX on the highway....out of the hole we have a solid chance though.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for proving me right!
I said the same exact thing.

Why aren't you running 93 octane and map 6...?
You have the mods for it, all you need is 93 octane and you could have done a little better.

06-19-2009, 01:53 PM	#67
Crisp Lieutenant Colonel 420 Rep 1,779 Posts Drives: F95 X5M Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: NYC iTrader: (1) Garage List 2016 BMW M5 [0.00] 2020 Aston Martin V ... [0.00] 2020 BMW 530i X-Drive [0.00] 2020 BMW X5M CP [0.00]	The only way you could possibly beat him is if you get lucky in the 1/4 mile. That means, you have to race him from a dead stop. This is the only way you would win because he has a lot of power/torque, so it is very easy for him to mess up the launch. Other than that, The LS2/LS3 and higher engines (LS7) are highway monsters. Common, they have a damn V8 6.0L+ engine in there. Those things are built to come to life at higher speeds! I'm coming from a LS2 GTO and I ran many 335i's (i guess they were stock). From a dead stop, they stood side by side with me up to about 80mph, where I would pull, and keep pulling untill it was pointless to race anymore. Now I have a JB3 Beta on Map6 and 93 octane, and I still think if I was to do a roll from 100mph with my LS2 GTO, it would take me....never mind the damn LS3 Vet. If both drivers are equally skilled, or even if you are a tad better driver than he is, he will still win because he as plenty of room for error if the race is going up to about 130mph. Don't put anything up for it...keep it a friendly race and get it on video. From a 40-130mph race, I predict the vet puts 3 cars if you are on 93 octane and map 6 on JB3 Beta. Good luck.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-19-2009, 03:34 PM	#72
Septro Banned 77 Rep 1,649 Posts Drives: '08 e90 335xi Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: C-Bus, OH iTrader: (1)	I lined up against a '04 C5 Z06 and roasted him as he pulled a 13.4 and I a 12.5, it was his first time at the track and he was babying the car since he just bought it. Just goes to show you - race the guy anyway, you're not supposed to beat the car, but you may easily beat the driver..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-19-2009, 03:56 PM	#75
Crisp Lieutenant Colonel 420 Rep 1,779 Posts Drives: F95 X5M Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: NYC iTrader: (1) Garage List 2016 BMW M5 [0.00] 2020 Aston Martin V ... [0.00] 2020 BMW 530i X-Drive [0.00] 2020 BMW X5M CP [0.00]	Anyway, the 335i, tuned, will still not take a C6 LS3 unless the LS3 messes up which is not really comparing cars, that's just comparing drivers. I think we can all agree that will equal drivers, the C6 would win this one, especially at highway speeds.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-19-2009, 11:48 PM	#78
Sniz Lieutenant General 654 Rep 10,587 Posts Drives: e92 335 - gone // e36 M3 turbo Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ellicott City, MD iTrader: (1)	yup, unless the other driver messes up its not going to look good for a 335 w/ out all the bolt ons, race gas, and running one of Hotrods's crazy ass race maps. __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-20-2009, 02:14 PM	#80
sbdavis1 First Lieutenant 20 Rep 325 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: tempe iTrader: (2)	So we haven't gone out for our "friendly pull" yet as we didn't have time last night. He did however let me drive it...the LS2 definately makes a lot of power up top. The Butt dyno between the two cars however doesn't seem to give the vette that much of an advantage.... from what i felt...i might have a chance until100+ speeds. that thing is a beast up top. we will go out tonight and i'll let you guys know how it goes..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-20-2009, 07:19 PM	#81
David 12 Major 127 Rep 1,048 Posts Drives: 2019 BMW X5 50i BSM, M Sport Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Omaha iTrader: (0)	gl sbdavid - I will tell you from my previous post that the next time the guy I know with the nearly stock 1992 vette spouts off, I will ask him to line up. I might even tell him I am sure I have no chance. The look on his face will be priceless!!! Recap: Me - 2007 335i coupe, JB3, map 3
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-20-2009, 11:11 PM	#82
TMR Brigadier General 394 Rep 3,161 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Torrance iTrader: (12)	Just thought id add to this... This morning i ran a new ZO6 with exhaust. We went from 60-120. I would edge him half car so his bumper would be at my door and by 120 my front bumper was at his back bumper. He was pulling HARD!!! if we would have stayed in it he would have easily put 4+ cars by 140.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-21-2009, 12:47 PM	#83
sbdavis1 First Lieutenant 20 Rep 325 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: tempe iTrader: (2)	So as we all agreed....the LSX's are BEASTS on the Highway. Again to restate the mods on the cars 2007 e92 JB3 Map5 91 oct, DCI, Britalman Exhaust, Forge DV 2007 LS2 Vette - STOCK - Did multiple runs but here's the consolidated conclusion: 60 roll - 3rd gear - Dead even until about 115ish...then BYE BYE 335 40mph roll - 2nd gear - 335 jumps ahead a half car or so until 90. then he caught up 5mph roll - 1st gear - 335 jumps ahead at least a car. vette catches between 90-100mph. He hasn't had enough time with the car to learn to launch...so that will come soon. My FMIC gets installed this week and we will run again to see the comparison. After last night I really need to order some catless DP's ASAP. Don't race the LSX on the highway....out of the hole we have a solid chance though.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-21-2009, 01:59 PM	#85
sbdavis1 First Lieutenant 20 Rep 325 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: tempe iTrader: (2)	91 is the best pump i can get here in AZ. I would bump up to map 7 but i wanted to get a baseline comparison. 5 is where i run on a daily basis. with the heat down here and no FMIC yet....i don't want to push it to map 7. when i get my fmic this week, i can go to map 7 for a few pulls...but even with the FMIC on 91 should i stay at map5 for DD?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-22-2009, 01:12 PM	#88
Crisp Lieutenant Colonel 420 Rep 1,779 Posts Drives: F95 X5M Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: NYC iTrader: (1) Garage List 2016 BMW M5 [0.00] 2020 Aston Martin V ... [0.00] 2020 BMW 530i X-Drive [0.00] 2020 BMW X5M CP [0.00]	[QUOTE=sbdavis1;5369135]So as we all agreed....the LSX's are BEASTS on the Highway. Again to restate the mods on the cars 2007 e92 JB3 Map5 91 oct, DCI, Britalman Exhaust, Forge DV 2007 LS2 Vette - STOCK - Did multiple runs but here's the consolidated conclusion: 60 roll - 3rd gear - Dead even until about 115ish...then BYE BYE 335 40mph roll - 2nd gear - 335 jumps ahead a half car or so until 90. then he caught up 5mph roll - 1st gear - 335 jumps ahead at least a car. vette catches between 90-100mph. He hasn't had enough time with the car to learn to launch...so that will come soon. My FMIC gets installed this week and we will run again to see the comparison. After last night I really need to order some catless DP's ASAP. Don't race the LSX on the highway....out of the hole we have a solid chance though.[/QUOTE] Thank you for proving me right! I said the same exact thing. Why aren't you running 93 octane and map 6...? You have the mods for it, all you need is 93 octane and you could have done a little better.
	Appreciate 0 Quote