[markymark34]

So im 1000 miles into 330i ownership after 4 years with 330ds (and a short stint in an m3).
I do not want this thread to turn into a petrol vs diesel arguement, im just stating my experience.

My 330ds have all been remapped (a £300 upgrade).

I love the sound of the 330i, even if it is a little quiet. The petrol engine is in a different league in terms of refinement/smoothness, sitting at the traffic lights you would hardly know its on its so smooth. Fuel consumption on decent runs seems pretty good 30ish. my average is 28 which is about 8 less than the 330d (without a remap).

Negatives of the petrol. Sorry but it just doesnt feel that quick. Ive highlighted the word feel for a reason. Im fairly sure the petrol is quicker than a standard 330d but they way the power is delivered leaves me feeling a little disappointed. Its such a gradual delivery that you never feel like its that quick. Maybe my brain has been white washed by years of turbo lag but i long for that thump as the turbo kicks in and the car surges forward.

If the 330i had another 50bhp i think it would be perfect but i do feel a little disappointed.

Anyone else gone 330d to 330i or vice versa?

Ps massive saving in initial cost of the cars was my reason for the change.

mark

[BanziBarn]

This is the problem really - after coming from a diesel you most likely would miss that punch, unless, like you say you go for big BHP.

It's a dilemma, in normal driving conditions where you're not able to use the full rev range all the time, the derv does give that sense of grunt which is appealing.

This is why, when I did a back to back drive of the 330d and 335i, the petrol car didn't blow me away like I thought it would.

It was the same when I bought my Leon, I drove a 200bhp petrol and a 170bhp diesel and the same thing happened - I enjoyed the soot chucker more (although it did sound like a taxi and ran out of puff on motorway slip roads!)

I reckon, what you need to do is focus on the noise and use the revs as much as you can and make the most of all the good points of the car, which obviously there are lots as it's a great engine by all accounts.

[lemans 330d]

not the same league but my experience going from the 320d to the 330i is brilliant.
The engine sounds gorgeous and the power is awesome if you put your foot down and also if you drive steady fuel consumption seems to be ok and very smooth.
I have had diesels for the past 9 years and thought as i dont do many miles i would go for a 330i as appose to the m3 which i would of liked but not doing 5k a year to justify the running costs overall.

[HighlandPete]

It will always come back to how the power/torque is delivered, even if the diesel/petrol have virtually the same headline figures.

To be honest, diesel suits what most of us want as a day to day motor, easy to extract some performance, but doesn't have that feel/satisfaction a petrol gives as you work it.

I love both the diesel and a 'big petrol' delivery, the 540i V8 was the best engine experience I've had in a day to day motor, refinement, lazy and eager, all in one package.

A 3.0 litre diesel just makes so much sense these days. But the NA straight six petrol takes some beating, the whole essence of BMW, IMO.

HighlandPete

[FieldingMellish]

Well, I've now done nearly 1,000 miles in my 330i, and averaged about the same as you, mpg wise, just a hair under 30 mpg.

Coming from a 320d, the 330i is much better in every way, but there is a certain torquey feeling you get from diesels which isn't there (or isn't quite so apparent) on the 330i. Small loss, relatively speaking. As for the turbo lag followed by big grunt of power, I've found that, with the kickdown on the auto, you get a similar lag then a big boost of power.

Hard to imagine anyone finding the 330i 'not fast enough', but everybody's different. For me, it's plenty fast.

[rogerxp]

Originally Posted by FieldingMellish

Hard to imagine anyone finding the 330i 'not fast enough', but everybody's different. For me, it's plenty fast.

Well you did mention in another recent post about your 'advancing years' .

I loved my 330i (in E46 guise) but now loving my 3.7 V6 even more - large cc petrol engines rock (just don't mention mpg or tax though )

[markymark34]

I think what i need is a Ferrari 458. Plenty of punch and a great noise. Now just the small matter of the extra cash..
Anyone wanna buy a 2005 330i for £185,000? ;-D


RogerXP - whats the 370 like compared to the 350? Really like the 350Z but again not the quickest and a little plasticy, i hear these issues are gone?

Cracking looking car.

[rogerxp]

Quick and not plasticy . My plan is to update my thread in the off-topic section so won't hijack your thread .

[gIzzE]

You need to find a nice twisty road where you can keep it in 3rd and 4th and above 4500rpm and go for a very spirited drive, this is something that you will never get the same feeling from when in a diesel.

[FieldingMellish]

Originally Posted by rogerxp

Well you did mention in another recent post about your 'advancing years' .

Ya cheeky git!

I think I saw you on the A34 today, mate. I'd say your years are advancing nearly as fast as mine.



Edit: see thread:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=522609

[penport]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

You need to find a nice twisty road where you can keep it in 3rd and 4th and above 4500rpm and go for a very spirited drive, this is something that you will never get the same feeling from when in a diesel.

+1
This is what a large petrol engine is all about

I went from A4 170 TDi to 330i and love every minute of it - but I do recognise your description of missing that diesel turbo punch, however the sound when the 330 is on song is just awesome

One other thing - I found in everyday driving I was almost preconditioned to avoid big movements of the right foot (as it had such a detrimental effect on mpg in the diesel) - no need to be afraid in the petrol as there's no turbo.

[I6Touring]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

You need to find a nice twisty road where you can keep it in 3rd and 4th and above 4500rpm and go for a very spirited drive, this is something that you will never get the same feeling from when in a diesel.

Add 2nd to the list of gears to have fun in and this is what keeps me in a 325i over a diesel. I find the crisp throttle response and flat torque curve contribute to the fun when cornering, far moreso than they do in a straight line.

(What would help further is closer ratios, the gap between 2nd and 3rd, on the autobox at least, can be a pain sometimes. If it were an option I'd keep 2nd gear as it is and lower the ratios for 3 - 6).

[nicko44]

Originally Posted by markymark34

.......
I do not want this thread to turn into a petrol vs diesel arguement....

You are right, this is not a petrol vs diesel argument. It is a forced induction vs NA argument. Turbocharging dramatically increases torque on both diesel and petrol engines. But a non turbo diesel feels nearly as flat at low revs as a non turbo petrol, as anyone who drove the earlier diesels in the middle 80's will remember. (Showing my age there). Of course almost all diesels nowadays are turbocharged, but then so are an increasingly large number of small capacity petrol engines such as the VW 1.2 and the new Ford 1.6 ecoboost.

A turbocharged 330d produces 398lbs of torque at around 2000rpm, whereas the NA 330i produces only 236lbs at around 4000rpm. Obviously the 330d will feel (and be) far more punchy at most typical road speeds. The 330i has to compensate for its lack of torque by producing higher bhp much higher up the rev range (7000rpm) and by having much lower gearing and less weight.
So ultimately their performance is pretty similar, but of course their driving characteristics are totally different. You pays your money and you takes your choice as they say.

I agree with Peter - I think the most satisfying cars to drive are NA petrol engines where the capacity is large enough to produce enough torque to give the effortless feel that we all like, while also having a decent rev range for when you want some fun. And of course instant throttle response with no turbo lag. For typical medium size cars of around 1500 to 1600kg this means that a 4 litre NA petrol engine producing near to 300lbs torque along with say 300bhp would be ideal. Anything with a smaller capacity, such as the 330i, is always going to lose out to turbocharged cars. Another alternative of course would be to put the 330i engine into a car weighing only 1250kg - now that would be fun.

[phil200tdi]

I went from a mapped c320cdi to a 335i. The Merc had around 260bhp but 440lb/ft of torque.

I couldn't go to an n/a petrol after all that torque but the twin turbo 6 gives good torque down low and the power is there when you get above 3000rpm. Now installed a jb4 (remap), great power 370bhp ish, massive torque 400lbs ish and a lovely noise = no compromise! Well except fuel consumption, 32mpg av. Vs 42mpg av.!!

Wanted a 335d but purchase price of over £5k more for similar age/ mileage is a lot of fuel. The i was £200 cheaper to insure for me and same to tax..

Just my 2p..

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by nicko44

You are right, this is not a petrol vs diesel argument. It is a forced induction vs NA argument. Turbocharging dramatically increases torque on both diesel and petrol engines. But a non turbo diesel feels nearly as flat at low revs as a non turbo petrol, as anyone who drove the earlier diesels in the middle 80's will remember. (Showing my age there).

Same here, driving diesels in the old days wasn't any fun, the reason I kept to petrol motors in those days. Once we got Direct Injection and Variable Geometry Turbos, diesel made sense in car.

Originally Posted by nicko44

I agree with Peter - I think the most satisfying cars to drive are NA petrol engines where the capacity is large enough to produce enough torque to give the effortless feel that we all like, while also having a decent rev range for when you want some fun. And of course instant throttle response with no turbo lag. For typical medium size cars of around 1500 to 1600kg this means that a 4 litre NA petrol engine producing near to 300lbs torque along with say 300bhp would be ideal.

That's about it. A trip I really enjoy is coming back home, late at night, from the Isle of Skye, up through Glen Shiel, the A87 to Invergarry. Done it many times in various motors. The current diesel 330d will hold 6th most of the way and even if you drive it manually on the step' function it still doesn't do anything for me as a driver, is just capable and keeps the speed up where you want it. But driving the V8 in step', giving the engine some head and it was magical, loved it every time.

I've test driven both the new F10 530d and 535i, the diesel makes so much sense in the head, but the 535i is the car I'd have out of choice. The twin scroll turbo giving it a decent mid range, but those revs and refinement make the car, IMO.

HighlandPete

[kaishang]

Originally Posted by nicko44

You are right, this is not a petrol vs diesel argument. It is a forced induction vs NA argument. Turbocharging dramatically increases torque on both diesel and petrol engines. But a non turbo diesel feels nearly as flat at low revs as a non turbo petrol, as anyone who drove the earlier diesels in the middle 80's will remember. (Showing my age there). Of course almost all diesels nowadays are turbocharged, but then so are an increasingly large number of small capacity petrol engines such as the VW 1.2 and the new Ford 1.6 ecoboost.

A turbocharged 330d produces 398lbs of torque at around 2000rpm, whereas the NA 330i produces only 236lbs at around 4000rpm. Obviously the 330d will feel (and be) far more punchy at most typical road speeds. The 330i has to compensate for its lack of torque by producing higher bhp much higher up the rev range (7000rpm) and by having much lower gearing and less weight.
So ultimately their performance is pretty similar, but of course their driving characteristics are totally different. You pays your money and you takes your choice as they say.

Yes, most turbo petrol engines, from all manufacturers now have the maximum power at about 5000rpm vs 7000rpm in the NA 330i. 5000rpm is not that much. It isn't that much more than a diesel .

[dxb335d]

Most normal N/A cars only rev to 6-6.5k. BMW's N/A petrols rev to 7k
as do some other drivers cars.

335d pulls hard to 5k which Is impressive

[nicko44]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

335d pulls hard to 5k which Is impressive

335d by far the best diesel I have driven, and I suppose the most "petrol-like". It also sounds not bad at all.
I've only driven a stock engine and found that it pulled well up to about 4500rpm, compared to most turbodiesels that run into a brick wall just south of 4000rpm.
Maybe a remap increases the useful rev range up to nearer 5000rpm.

On my 335i I found the standard car hit the same brick wall at around 6000rpm. After a remap the wall moved to just under 7000, and this makes the last 1000rpm so much more exhilarating, in fact almost as good as my old remapped 330i, albeit a good deal quicker. But the 330i still sounds the best, especially the old N52 Vanos engine.

[briers]

A stock 335d is only good for 4500 rpm imo and the autobox knows it and in DS mode will change then.

Remapped as said will keep going strong.

Yes it is more petrol like in it's power delivery although you have that big torque from right down low too.

I've had mine for a while now and it doesn't feel fast any more. Just used to it but on the excitement front the 330i is probably going to feel more enjoyable keeping it at high rpms on the back roads.

Although i'm disappointed with the sound of the latest 330i 272bhp engine, it seems to have lost some "throat".

[markymark34]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

You need to find a nice twisty road where you can keep it in 3rd and 4th and above 4500rpm and go for a very spirited drive, this is something that you will never get the same feeling from when in a diesel.

Did that yesterday, great fun! Messing about blipping the throttle on down changes as well (purely for auditory purposes!).

Its growing on me now!

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by briers

A stock 335d is only good for 4500 rpm imo and the autobox knows it and in DS mode will change then.

Remapped as said will keep going strong.

Yes it is more petrol like in it's power delivery although you have that big torque from right down low too.

I've had mine for a while now and it doesn't feel fast any more. Just used to it but on the excitement front the 330i is probably going to feel more enjoyable keeping it at high rpms on the back roads.

Although i'm disappointed with the sound of the latest 330i 272bhp engine, it seems to have lost some "throat".

Boost hose leak?