[Revlis]

Originally Posted by Detailed Image

A hazy finish is typically caused from an abrasive polish not finishing down correctly. If Zaino is recommending to use a sealant (Z-2) or a sealant with fillers (Z-5) to remove the haze, then that doesn't say much about Z-PC as a finishing polish. More or less that means hide the problem rather than fix the problem. Without properly fixing it, the haze will always be there.

A quality finishing polish as normtrum mentioned should finish down to a perfect finish when used correctly. I say finish the paint with one of the Menzerna finishing polishes, preferably PO106FF or Final Polish II to remove any haze left behind. Menzerna is argued to have some of the best polishes on the market.

I personally think that the dots are dusting from the Intensive Polish, which I've experienced many times before. I follow up with an Isopropyl Alcohol wipe down to ensure product remains are completely removed.

Hope this helps.

George

AND Cue the Sales Pitch...

[UncleWede]

Just looking at your pad gave me the willies. Are those spots, where it is all white, product clumped and hard??

The pattern on the door seems to my untrained eye that you've rubbed with something less than pliable and it never broke down, and those hard white spots on the pad are leaving marks all along your paint. Do you have one of those pad scrapers?

[Revlis]

OK Yeah, those pictures are scary as hell, where did all the scratches come from? From the images it looks as though the entire surface of your car is one big cobweb of scratches.

Spooky, I think I'd be taking it to a pro at this point, from the images it looks as though the paint is about destroyed, I'm sure it's just the lighting but I cannot get around the amount of scratches the flash reveals in the paint. Looks like a 20 year old car.

[normtrum]

You might be beyond fixing it yourself at this point. Find a pro (like revlis mentioned) in your area, they will use a high speed orb. There's good and bad pros however, check around. Maybe find out from your local BMW CCA.

[UncleWede]

Anyone else who does this on a regular basis have a pic of their pad during the process? His just looks WRONG

[BimmerFan61]

Zaino works great on my Jet black. The key is to get it right from the get go. I clayed, used Klasse AIO (great stuff), then Z-5, then Z-2. Hopefully it will be a while before I need a polish.

[bimmernotbeamer]

You could always try another polish, like Menzerna Final Polish. In my use, I've found that product to have less bite than ZPC (which was never enough for me).

[mrh335]

I have some Menzerna FP II on the way and will have it tomorrow.

I gave it a shot again tonight with the ZPC and also some Zaino AIO.

The AIO seemed to work pretty well. First, it was able to remove all the tiny scratches from the pad and really leave a shine. It took some work, but I was able to complete one door panel with very little residue left over after the wipe, but none the less, there is still some residue from the AIO or ZPC. Sometimes I can wipe it off with my finger, but my MF towels don't seem to want to remove the residue.

What are people using (brand and location purchased) to wipe the ZPC or AIO off with? Also, I am trying to work the polish as everyone mentions. I spoke with someone else from Zaino today and they said it is 2-3 minutes starting at speed 6 and going down to 4 to finish up moving at 2" per second. For me the ZPC flashes clear in my first or second pass over it and is ingrained in the paint at this point which results in the scary haze.

To the negatives out there, the paint is fine. The hazing is product on the surface. Most of the "scratches" are really residue left over from wiping. The only real scratches in the one picture were microscratches from the polishing pad because it was most likely too dry.

Any hints to knowing when you are using enough product and don't have a dry pad? Tonight I was wetting the pad with every attempt and wiping it off every couple of times. If it were warm here, the quickness with which the ZPC flashes would make sense, but it is like 60 degrees and I am in my garage. My halogen is about 8 feet away and the surface of the car is not even warm.

Keep posting, the problem isn't solved yet.

[ejazbmw]

those pictures are scary i suggest what others have said before take it to a pro because it seems your just making it worse rather better.

[ejazbmw]

oh and although Menzerna is a great product i suggest not to mix different products with zaino, if you chose to go the zaino route its kind of important to only stick with zaino products unless you know what your really doing. In your case you didnt lol

[bimmernotbeamer]

Did you wash your Microfiber towels before using them? If the answer is now, I suggest you do that. Washing them will remove the loose fibres. These fibres can stick to the paint when wiping off polishes and selants, etc, which can look like tiny scratches. If you did wash your MF towels, how are you washing them? I hope you are not using fabric softener. That can also cause the towels to los their effectiveness.

[mrh335]

I am washing the MF towels before use. I wash in warm water with liquid Tide (no fabric softener). I dry them on low and try to remove when still a little damp, but not always.

How long is the working time with ZPC on a 2'x2' area typically on speed 4 or whatever with three pea size drops and pad pre misted with Z6?

Like I said before, I mist the pad to start, apply 3-5 pea drops on a fresh pad, smear, and begin working on speed 4 (speed 6 seems to fast). I apply a medium pressure, maybe 5 lbs, and go left right on the area, up and down, and continue makeing about 6 passes over each section (meaning of have completely gone over the 2'x2' area 6 times). I go to wipe, and the residue doesn't budge. I rub hard, and can break through. I can wipe with a finger, but it's not dragging the MF towel or anything. I am just going over top of it and it isn't moving.

[normtrum]

Ahh..6 times over the same 2X2 area? I'm talking Merzerna vs ZPC, but I typically spend ~5 minutes per section. I garuntee you it"s a lot more then 6 passes.

You have to let the polish "break down" to an extremely "fine" level. With Mezerna Intensive Polish, it will "break down" to the pont where it looks like it's barely visable. It's kind of a milky color. I then shut it down, then wipe.

Somebody will have to chime in on the Zpc, but six passes seems way short.

If youwere in my area, Id just have you bring your car over. 2000 miles to Seattle. That's a bit far.

[bimmernotbeamer]

Six times may not necessarily be short, or long, or anything. Weather is a big variable that can effect how long a polish needs to be worked in before it is broken down. I usually do all my polishing during the warmer months when it is hotter and more humid. This causes the polishes to dry up and break down a lot faster, usually after 2 north and south, and 2 east and west passes moving at an inch per second. In cooler weather this may increase. Bottom line, try not to focus so much on how long, or how many passes you are making if that method is not working for you. Instead, just observe the polish itself as you are working it. Once it turns clear, and then begins dusting, you can turn off the machine and should be able to wipe the remaining residue off easily. If it is not wiping off easily in that situation, then I don't know what to tell you. That is the universal method for using most polishes (some naturally stay wetter longer and don't really dust, however ZPC is not one of them).

[ejazbmw]

Originally Posted by normtrum

Somebody will have to chime in on the Zpc, but six passes seems way short.

If youwere in my area, Id just have you bring your car over. 2000 miles to Seattle. That's a bit far.

6 passes with z-pc isn't that bad i usually work it in for 2-3min due to its a mild abrasive and it breaks down fairly quickly, and I'm going to stress this again to the op take it to a pro!!! no offense but your not getting anywhere and just making it worse, spend the 120bucks and let the pro fix your mistakes.

[mrh335]

Actually, I wouldn't say I am making it worse, thanks for the support ejazbmw.

I gave in with the ZPC today and used Menzerna FP II. What a difference. First time on my door, perfectly clean, no hazing, no microscratches, no residue, just clean and shiny.

Back to what DavidN was saying. I thought you didn't want to work until dusting and definitely shut down prior to having bare spots. The Menzerna doesn't seem to be as finicky to polishing time. Short or long it wipes off easily revealing a brighter surface than even the good results I achieved with the ZPC on the door panel next to the FP II panel.

Should you work the FP until dusting or until you are satisfied and at what speed? I was using speeds 4 and 5 until it wasn't white, but dull/wet and it wipes away easily. Not sure if it should look like this or saran wrap over it.

Another note, I wouldn't take my car somewhere anyway. I have had two vehicles detailed in the last three months by "professionals" in Chicago, Dallas, and Seattle on all black vehicles. One of those three was decent, the others left more scratches and spider webs than they began with. If anyone will screw this up, I would rather it be me than paying someone. At least this way I am self sufficient.

I will give ZPC another try maybe even on this car depending on how the FP II works out for me, but right now I plan to FP II the whole car and then Dawn wash and apply the Z2 pro. (This was actually a recommendation made to me by a Zaino dealer when working with German paint). He mentioned that he prefers using Menzerna on German cars and feels it works better for him. His suggestion was to give FP II a shot if I could not get the ZPC to work. After talking with him again today, we also came to the conclusion that I wasn't using enough ZPC on my 7.5" Lake Country CCS pad and that was resulting in drying the pad out, microscratching, and not properly breaking down the polish.

I am not done yet, will revisit on Sunday when I am back in town. For now, it looks like the FP II will save me. I seem to think it is easier to use with my lack of skills.

[normtrum]

Originally Posted by hoehne

Actually, I wouldn't say I am making it worse, thanks for the support ejazbmw.

I gave in with the ZPC today and used Menzerna FP II. What a difference. First time on my door, perfectly clean, no hazing, no microscratches, no residue, just clean and shiny.

Back to what DavidN was saying. I thought you didn't want to work until dusting and definitely shut down prior to having bare spots. The Menzerna doesn't seem to be as finicky to polishing time. Short or long it wipes off easily revealing a brighter surface than even the good results I achieved with the ZPC on the door panel next to the FP II panel.

Should you work the FP until dusting or until you are satisfied and at what speed? I was using speeds 4 and 5 until it wasn't white, but dull/wet and it wipes away easily. Not sure if it should look like this or saran wrap over it.

Another note, I wouldn't take my car somewhere anyway. I have had two vehicles detailed in the last three months by "professionals" in Chicago, Dallas, and Seattle on all black vehicles. One of those three was decent, the others left more scratches and spider webs than they began with. If anyone will screw this up, I would rather it be me than paying someone. At least this way I am self sufficient.

I will give ZPC another try maybe even on this car depending on how the FP II works out for me, but right now I plan to FP II the whole car and then Dawn wash and apply the Z2 pro. (This was actually a recommendation made to me by a Zaino dealer when working with German paint). He mentioned that he prefers using Menzerna on German cars and feels it works better for him. His suggestion was to give FP II a shot if I could not get the ZPC to work. After talking with him again today, we also came to the conclusion that I wasn't using enough ZPC on my 7.5" Lake Country CCS pad and that was resulting in drying the pad out, microscratching, and not properly breaking down the polish.

I am not done yet, will revisit on Sunday when I am back in town. For now, it looks like the FP II will save me. I seem to think it is easier to use with my lack of skills.

Now the Mezerna is something I can really talk about. Start like you normally would on 3-4 setting, then take it up to full speed.

Now if you really want to use an incredible product next, use the Merzerna Full Molecular Jacket (FMJ) as a sealant. Holy shyte does it work well with FP on a black car. It's the single best detail product I've ever used. It is extremely easy to apply. You can use your pc, and do much larger areas at a time. I just did the hood on my e46, and it took less then 20 minutes. You can even leave it on until you've finished the entire hood before wiping off.

[bimmernotbeamer]

Originally Posted by hoehne

Actually, I wouldn't say I am making it worse, thanks for the support ejazbmw.

I gave in with the ZPC today and used Menzerna FP II. What a difference. First time on my door, perfectly clean, no hazing, no microscratches, no residue, just clean and shiny.

Back to what DavidN was saying. I thought you didn't want to work until dusting and definitely shut down prior to having bare spots. The Menzerna doesn't seem to be as finicky to polishing time. Short or long it wipes off easily revealing a brighter surface than even the good results I achieved with the ZPC on the door panel next to the FP II panel.

Should you work the FP until dusting or until you are satisfied and at what speed? I was using speeds 4 and 5 until it wasn't white, but dull/wet and it wipes away easily. Not sure if it should look like this or saran wrap over it.

Another note, I wouldn't take my car somewhere anyway. I have had two vehicles detailed in the last three months by "professionals" in Chicago, Dallas, and Seattle on all black vehicles. One of those three was decent, the others left more scratches and spider webs than they began with. If anyone will screw this up, I would rather it be me than paying someone. At least this way I am self sufficient.

I will give ZPC another try maybe even on this car depending on how the FP II works out for me, but right now I plan to FP II the whole car and then Dawn wash and apply the Z2 pro. (This was actually a recommendation made to me by a Zaino dealer when working with German paint). He mentioned that he prefers using Menzerna on German cars and feels it works better for him. His suggestion was to give FP II a shot if I could not get the ZPC to work. After talking with him again today, we also came to the conclusion that I wasn't using enough ZPC on my 7.5" Lake Country CCS pad and that was resulting in drying the pad out, microscratching, and not properly breaking down the polish.

I am not done yet, will revisit on Sunday when I am back in town. For now, it looks like the FP II will save me. I seem to think it is easier to use with my lack of skills.

That's good news! I'm glad the FP2 is working for you. In terms of how you are working it, it sounds like you are doing a good job. FP2 (reformulated from the original FP a long time ago) has a longer working time, so I doubt working it until it dusts will yield greater benefits. If the paint looks good after you are done, then consider yourself successful.

As for taking it to a pro, I'm with you. Good pro's are to find. Most are just wash and wax volume detailers that know as much about proper paint correction as the 16 year old kid washing cars at the dealer. Do it yourself, and you will not only learn, but you will also gain a tremendous amount of personal satisfaction along the way.

To the poster that told you screwed your paint up, nonsense! Don't listen to people like this.

As for the Menzerna FMJ recommendation, it is a easy to use and a nice looking product, however I only got 6 weeks of durability from it. That's poor considering the price, which is double Z2pro. Another thing to note, FMJ isn't really a menzerna product. It is made for CMA (not by menzera) and sold under the menzerna name.

[mrh335]

I finishing using the Menzerna FP II last night on the whole car. It is shiny now and there were no issues with hazing or anything else. Just really clean paint.

I also had a chance to go and look at part of my bumper that I had not previously used any polish on and was able to see many of these small dots in that I referenced earlier. It seems that it is there from the paint process. I plan to take a look at the dealership to see if it is on their new jet black cars. I find it rather annoying, but I don't think it shows up nearly as well in direct sunlight, just the halogen lighting.

So far, I have completed the dawn wash, clay bar, Menzerna IP with Orange LC pad, dawn wash, Menzerna FP II with White LC pad.

Tonight I will begin the sealant application. I am debating whether I should use the Zaino AIO I have to go over the whole car once or just start with the Z2 Pro.

Any suggestions on whether the AIO will help me? I know there are parts of the car I did not polish down that still might have wax including chrome pieces and the black part of the door between the driver and passenger windows.

Please let me know about the AIO.

I plan to explore use of the ZPC on my next detail on my wife's BMW or next spring, but for now, I found the Menzerna FP II worlds easier to work with and have instant results that I could not obtain with the ZPC no matter how long I worked it.

Pictures to follow tonight.

[ejazbmw]

i personally like using z-aio before z2 its a cleaner so i know once I'm applying my sealant its nothing but 100% clean paint and plus it also protects the paint from UV rays. Z-aio is really good at what it does is it necessary? no but I sure do love the results of it. I suggest if you have the time and don't mind the effort you should do it.

[ejazbmw]

and i still don't understand how you can't obtain z-pc its pretty easy. I never used it before until 2 months ago and found it to be really easy to use and was very user friendly.

[bimmernotbeamer]

Originally Posted by hoehne

I finishing using the Menzerna FP II last night on the whole car. It is shiny now and there were no issues with hazing or anything else. Just really clean paint.

I also had a chance to go and look at part of my bumper that I had not previously used any polish on and was able to see many of these small dots in that I referenced earlier. It seems that it is there from the paint process. I plan to take a look at the dealership to see if it is on their new jet black cars. I find it rather annoying, but I don't think it shows up nearly as well in direct sunlight, just the halogen lighting.

So far, I have completed the dawn wash, clay bar, Menzerna IP with Orange LC pad, dawn wash, Menzerna FP II with White LC pad.

Tonight I will begin the sealant application. I am debating whether I should use the Zaino AIO I have to go over the whole car once or just start with the Z2 Pro.

Any suggestions on whether the AIO will help me? I know there are parts of the car I did not polish down that still might have wax including chrome pieces and the black part of the door between the driver and passenger windows.

Please let me know about the AIO.

I plan to explore use of the ZPC on my next detail on my wife's BMW or next spring, but for now, I found the Menzerna FP II worlds easier to work with and have instant results that I could not obtain with the ZPC no matter how long I worked it.

Pictures to follow tonight.

I'm glad the FPII worked out well for you. In terms of ZPC, don't worry too much about why it didn't work. What's important is that you found a product and process that do work for you, and your paint looks all the better for it.

In terms of ZAIO, if you are planning to use ZFX with your Z2, then you don't need ZAIO. If you will not be using ZFX, then you will absolutely need ZAIO. If you haven't already done so, I would do a Z7/any other car wash after the FPII and before ZAIO/Z2 step.